Could someone help me unpack why I'm so unlikable?

[nonotes]

I have some idea, but I'm not 100% sure why I turn people off. Maybe someone could help me work it out!

You are basically me - im loud and opinionated and intimidating or so im told. But im actually anxious socially awkward with few no friends

The resting bitch face you can’t control but the talking about yourself too much you definitely can. If you meet someone you need make a conscious effort to ask questions and listen. Good listening (I think it’s called reflective listening) can actually be taught - it’s the kind of thing counsellors are trained to do and might be a good thing to learn.

I think that there are some simple strategies...

1. realise that many people out there are deeply selfish / self-centered, so they are not really interested in you - they will converse on topics outside the two of you / themselves...

2. soft listening - try and ensure that interactions are a) soft - you are not forcing things / you are gentle / you deliberately use soft words such as 'I think' / 'maybe' / 'possibly' / 'I wonder if' rather than absolutes such as 'xxx is' / 'I know' etc. - i.e. less blunt and b) spend more time listening than speaking

3. feed the other person lines - ask their view - you already know your own view, so gaining their view adds to your knowledge - you become wiser... you can still steer a conversation if you wish, but give them a platform on which to speak

4. feed the other person generally - think about what makes them excited / engaged - if they see you talking about things that they enjoy, they will see you as 'one of us' and want to know you better

5. go into relationships expecting to give, not receive - if you put the legwork in - make it easy for the other person, then you give them little reason to not engage and build the relationship

and then...

in all of the above techniques - start to understand whether they are a giver or taker in a relationship (i.e. do they give to you / are they a leech on your energy etc.) - and build the relationships which are two way, and drop those which are one way...

it will allow relationships to have time and grow to give the other person opportunity to know you - but you are making it easy for them, rather than hard - as you get older, most people have quite established routines, so adding in another friend has to be worthwhile, and it won't be if it is too much effort...

get the right people and even though you go into the friendship expecting to give more than you get, the rewards the other way will be huge...

Re the bragging.

I want to get DS a toy garage
Oh we got DD the X one last Yr, definately recommend it. Might get the add ons this year as the kid has more cars than Fiat!!

Or
I want to get DS a toy garage.
Oh we got DD the X one last year, it really is the only decent one, even though it cost £946 because I hate it when people buy plastic trash. I simply must get the add on this year as she's spent all the money she earns from getting gold stars at nursery on cars, and I promised her one if she passes her grade 10 violin next week. Thank goodness we have a playroom for all her toys, how do people cope when they only have 10 rooms in a house??

I have a chance today to make a friend as I'm part of a mum friend network thing. So I'll just try to be myself, I won't take too much about myself etc and I'll ask questions about her.

Maybe I pull away too quickly and sulk if I feel people don't like me.

Thanks for the replies. Maybe this is just normal in trying to make friends in your 30s?

I would mention things that I have or am going to get, or that my son has done etc

I'll mention things I've bought for the baby that are top of the range things

This doesn't sound boastful to me -- it sounds dull, as if you talking about things you're buying or have bought all the time, or are obsessed with brand names. No one, unless they are themselves inclined that way, wants to hang around with someone where the conversation is like one of those late-night shopping channels all the time.

Bit Polka is also right. You can meet your tribe in some places and not at all in others. I do not find the kind of people I befriend 'naturally' in the village I currently live in, so all my new friends since I moved out of London to here are people I met at work, where I do find my tribe.

@sleeping, Id be the top one for sure. But that's still mentioning possessions isn't it?

Ok, I think people my be put off by my own dislike for myself. I bet I stink of it.

This has been helpful.

I basically have no chat apart from the baby at the moment either. But I'm trying to meet mum friends that also have no chat! haha

How old is baby? Its totally fine that the depth of convo is sore breasts / teething / CBeebies / potty training.

And my two examples the first is helpful and factua, the other is boastful. Unless someone is asking what you got or recommend then don't mention what you just bought, at least until you know them better. If my mate said she'd spent £500 on a sleep thing I'd know it's because she hasn't slept in months and has sold her DH to afford it. If a random mum at baby group said it it would sound boastful. Context is key

And yes, it sounds like you don't like yourself so you assume they didn't so you pull away before you get hurt.

But you are a person who has lived 30 plus years, as well as being someone with a baby, nonotes -- there's more than that to you. What are you interested in, what have you spent those 30 years getting up to? What's gone on in your life other than having a child?

I am deeply uncomfortable with myself. Perhaps that's it

You know - this may be it? I used to be friends with someone like that but I stopped. The insecurity seeped into everything, causing a strange intense neediness that made her too hard to be around. I felt like I was constantly having to build her up. It was draining.

None of what you've mentioned sounds braggy to me I guess it depends on context. Mentioning buying something top of the range for your baby to another mum who was struggling financially wouldn't go down well.

How are you at reading other people's emotions? Can you pinpoint the moment that other people go off you? Any examples you could share?

Not agreeing with somebody else is fine and allowed; but sometimes it's not tactful or kind to point that out, and it can stop the flow of conversation, especially if it happens quite often. I wouldn't point out I disagreed with somebody if they were obviously proud or happy about something, or if I could tell it was important to them. I might use the tactic of getting curious, asking questions about it and trying Rio find one little part of it I could admire or agree with. For example, a friend might tell me they are proudly voting for ukip. I cannot stand anything about ukip but if I say that to them, it would only cause friction and discomfort. I do know they have one or two policies I like (education, iirc) So I might mention that I like their education policy. I'm not selling out by agreeing that ukip are great, but I'm not putting my friend in a position where she feels judged or looked down upon either. Truth be told for that example I'd probably more likely deflect the subject and change the conversation to a different subject entirely.

I believe I could also come across as quite braggy.. maybe and also probably quite judgemental.. sometimes. I just can't help myself.

The wording here is quite telling. You CAN help yourself, you can modify your own behaviour including what words come out of your mouth. Take personal responsibility for your own words and actions.

You can also learn to like and love yourself better.

I don't have any talents, I don't have any hobbies or anything like that - I was never afforded the options when I was a child. I'm basically painfully bloody average. Average weight, height, looking etc. My husband would disagree and with him I'm able to now build a lovely life for my son and hopefully some more children. I just want a couple of good friends to open up to.

By the way, do people think it's possible to become close to someone in their 30s? Or does this have to start from school age? Because I fear I've missed the boat.

From what you have said I don’t think you are unlikeable - I think it is more you are associating with the wrong people and maybe wanting more out of a friendship than these people can give.

As someone else said you sound pretty self aware and maybe your qualities make some of your friends feel insecure about themselves and this is what you pick up as being “unlikeable”.

Do you get different “feelings” from different people - so one thinks you are braggy because of what you have spent on your baby another thinks you are judgemental because you have a strong opinion on something - another thinks you talk too much about yourself etc

You mention mental paranoia - I think you are picking up the feelings of your friends but instead of seeing this as their energy you have lumped it altogether and made it about you which it is not. Does any of this make sense?

Your friends pull away because you have highlighted insecurities in themselves but they don’t get this - it’s at a sub conscious level whereas you are very conscious about feelings and energy.

Be yourself let out the silly funny side - it’s taken me a huge amount of turmoil to realise all this and many years of doubting myself and thinking there must be something wrong with me - look at any opportunity to speak out / connect with people and learn to be yourself/ love yourself no matter what - the right people will come to you

I think the stage you are at is very difficult. I think it is sold to you that, when you have a baby, you'll make lots of new friends and sail happily off into the sunset through school, college, university.

The reality is that you will meet lots of new people but they will be all different people. Some you'll like and some you won't. The friendships can be quite fickle, too, based on situations rather than shared interests.

You also have a massive shift in identity at this stage and, as a new parent, you learn things about yourself that you didn't know.

You will also be sleep deprived, stressed, while trying to meet people who see you at your worst.

Don't be so hard on yourself. If you do want to meet people, maybe try to do it in a more.adult setting ?

. but as soon as I start to find someone annoying

I’m wondering what kind of things you find annoying, what kind of standards you are holding people to? Do you think that instead of either being able to accept or find ways to modify a single behaviour (e.g.interrupting) that you label the person as annoying and subconsciously write them off?

By the way, do people think it's possible to become close to someone in their 30s?

Yes, definitely. I still have friends from schooldays but none lives remotely near me now. I moved across London in my 30s and have made quite a few new friends in my new area.

I think that a good rule is to ask more questions of the person (but not like an interview)
A bit of self deprecation goes well too- most people feel like they are not doing their best , so it can be bonding. I'm friends with someone like you at the moment (a new friendship) and I can see she struggles to make friends, but it is also hard going as I have to carry it - always thinking of what to talk about next etc and it does put me off.

Also, genuinely trying to be helpful here, I don't know if you are truly self-aware. You're willing to be self-critical, which is good, but I suspect your thoughts about the bragging are a red herring tbh. People who struggle a lot with relationships usually have big blind spots about how they come across.

The thing that would be really helpful, tbh, is to hear from one of the people who really liked you at first and then seemed to pull away. Could you consider messaging one of them and saying "hey, I know we haven't spoken lately but do you fancy catching up?" or similar.

The writer maeve binchy once gave great advice about how to make friends:Get to know the other person, ask the other mums all about their babies. Every so often mention your but then go back to them. After a while (weeks) you can let the real you out but maybe flag, in a humorous way, that you can be awkward and braggy?

By the way, do people think it's possible to become close to someone in their 30s?
Yes but you need shared interests not just proximity. At Uni I was friends with the people I lived with and studied with. As an adult you have to put more effort into meeting up so shared hobbies etc are more useful, or kids similar ages, people you work with etc.

Maybe I pull away too quickly and sulk if I feel people don't like me.

This makes me wonder if you can be a bit clingy or overbearing with new or potential friends. That shouldn't always go badly for you though, as I know several people are very instant and full-on with new friends. Personally I back very sharply away from any new acquaintance who is too full-on though, so it may be a contributing factor. I know how hard that is by the way: it's so difficult to make new friends as an adult, and to an extent you do need to put yourself out there at the beginning and suggest meeting up etc.

I've seen a few threads like this, and they always puzzle me. Usually when I find someone unlikeable, it's something I can't quite put my finger on, or something that sounds really superficial which they can't help like "God they have an annoying voice", and would find it really difficult to tell them how to "change" it to make them likeable to me. It seldom occurs to me that people might have that problem everywhere they turn though, as usually the people to whom I take an instant dislike have lots of friends and are presumably oblivious to the fact that they've had that effect on me (just I'm sure people have taken an instant dislike to me over the years, but I can't think of many times that's been really apparent to me).

Which is to say, I haven't often in my life met anyone who seems universally unpopular, so I suspect you're being a little hard on yourself and have just had bad luck.

I probably need to watch what I say about other people? In case they think I also say not-so-nice things about them? Never anything bad, but I bet it doesn't reflect well on me.

I have a 'friend' who will talk about other shared 'friends' and it doesn't look great on her, and I do wonder what she says about me. Yet I do the same thing.

When complaining about my in-laws for example, my parents say to me 'you would tell us if we're doing something that you don't like, wouldn't you?'

I need to stop this behaviour!

But sometimes I can have a vent about people can't I? Maybe just to my husband who invariably agrees with me

I don't think you are unlikeable at all. I think you are imagining friendships to be deeper than most really are.

At this stage, your main time is taken up with family and work. If you have time to chat to a few people outside of that and have a laugh, that's great and all that can be expected with a young child.

Have you any school friends or friends from years ago? Have you any sisters or brothers? Family or old neighbours or anyone that knows you well that you can pick up the phone once a year and catch up? That's all most people have time for.

Yes I have made loads of new friends in my 30's.