Could someone help me unpack why I'm so unlikable?

[nonotes]

I have some idea, but I'm not 100% sure why I turn people off. Maybe someone could help me work it out!

OP hi, well done for asking what is a tough question.

Maybe you are your own worst critic!

"I am deeply uncomfortable with myself. Perhaps that's it.

I have a husband who thinks the world of me, I've let him in so to speak! I just want a couple of close friends that I feel comfortable enough with to show them my lighthearted silly funny side. So depressed."

Please see your GP about depression and get some therapy. If you can afford to pay for it, then do. It sounds like you are judging yourself harshly.

In terms of the things you do mention... "I do listen to others, but I also talk about myself quite a lot." Easy to stop this, just allow others to talk more.

"I believe I could also come across as quite braggy." Why do you need to do this. Is it that you need to get feedback on your status? Just think about why you do it, we all do, sometimes, it's just limiting it.

"...quite judgmental.. sometimes. I just can't help myself." We can all be judgmental, but we can help it. We can choose not to say things that will hurt or upset others. It sounds like you judge yourself a lot, get help to change this for you.

"Sometimes I will say if I don't agree with someone but not all the time in case I hurt their feelings etc." So you can control it.

"I'm not all bad, just apparently unlikable." I'm not sure you are unlikeable at all.

"I also think I have a resting bitch face, for want of a better expression." Just smile more. Ask questions and smile. I doubt you have this face but to be honest my dh has a kind of grumpy vacant look - but I got to know him well enough to love him in spite of it!

I agree with SleepingStandingUp "Sounds like you're self defeating."

Definitely quit complaining about people. I have friends like that and I keep my distance - I never feel good around them.

What habits do you find most annoying in other people?

I have a yearning for a real friendship and maybe I'm just asking too much at the moment because everyone I know at the moment also have 8ish month olds. Plus a lot of them are going back to work so I'll be even more lonely! Urgh.

Maybe start with listening rather than thinking what you are going to say? I know when I think what I might talk about, i feel a bit more nervous. but if I trust myself to just listen and respond, it seems more natural?

It sounds as if you have a sense that you missed out on things when you were younger. Some people do have lifelong friends but I doubt that they are their only friends so although you don't have that type of friendship in your life you can still have future friends. I don't think you should see new people as possible "friends" as this could put too much pressure on the situation and make you feel like a failure if they don't become friends. Try to enjoy people's company and let them enjoy yours, you will meet people who like you for your personality and real friendship will build up over time.

The sad thing is, that if people stuck around long enough they would see that I'm just quite soft and insecure and would make a loyal and very good friend

Nope. They have no obligation towards you at all. You're the one who wants to make friends, you're the one who needs to make the effort - to 'present yourself' in an appealing way, listen to them, offer something they want (most people have friends already, what is being friends with you going to add to their lives?), basically, befriending them.

And of course that's not like a sales pitch really. It usually starts small and grows. Sometimes only to a 'friendly acquaintance' point, sometimes to full friendship. How it goes is so hit and miss, depending on circumstance, as well as perosnality, need and willingness. So you do have to keep trying, with lots of people, and not expect anything of any particular person.

You sound quite dismissive of others. You make a little effort, it's not good enough for them, you find them annoying, you dismiss them. That sounds really high-handed, closed and rather arrogant actually, the way you've written it (which may be far from accurately portraying the truth of course).

I think it's rather like dating. You have to present openness, a willingness to try something new, an active interest in finding something involving other people, finding out more about them. 'I'm here, take it or leave it' won't achieve that.

Your references to buying things just sounds materialistic to me. To me, not everyone, that signals dull and shallow. Not someone I'd want to get to know. I do know one or two people who talk a lot about 'stuff' and do come across as materialistic (they are), one as quite braggy too but, I regard it as a funny quirk, or just a difference in outlook, because I know them to be intelligent, interesting, insightful people, who are good and loyal friends, as well.

Sorry that sounds rather negative. It's honest feedback on what you've written, which won't be the whole story. Pps have given great advice.

Honestly, this has been very very helpful. I have struggled with depression and anxiety in the past (although I don't do anything about it anymore as I've tried before and I'm generally apathetic to it all now)

Thank you loads for all your input. I'm going to really try with this girl later on and try and just be my normal self (fingers crossed)

You sound like me OP. I can definitely be overcritical/judgemental and this can come across as arrogance.
I also really have to make an effort to not dominate discussions/talk about myself too much. Ask questions. Bite your tongue sometimes and just listen. These are skills I have had to work really hard at developing.

Maybe you make everything about yourself. My mom does that and it really grates on me. If I say "I passed my practical test on my first try!", instead of saying "that's great, congratulations!" She would say "I passed mine on the first try too and also got no deductions". 

She does this to everyone all the time and it's a real conversation killer. I've called her out on it a few times and she said she is trying to relate to people but it comes off and self absorbed and dismissive of others. We all talk about how bad it is behind her back as well, because it seems to be getting worse as she gets older.

The sad thing is, that if people stuck around long enough they would see that I'm just quite soft and insecure and would make a loyal and very good friend

• • • Can I clarify this quote of mine a little? I don't mean that it's on them to hang around. I mean, it's a shame I turn people off before I have a chance to be more likeable. Onus on me.

Also, my written word is pretty shite. Thanks for those bearing with

Yeah I think venting is fine but you need an established relationship first. My friend moans about her parents and about another friend. I accept she needs a vent, make sympathetic noises and let her get on with it. Then we move on. It's more how and when you do it?

If you're not going back to work I'd look for a couple of long term stay and plays, somewhere you can slowly build up friendships.

It is hard OP, I struggle to talk to new people so I sit on my phone or reading a book so then they don't talk to me either. It feeds itself

Maybe you make everything about yourself. My mom does that and it really grates on me. If I say "I passed my practical test on my first try!", instead of saying "that's great, congratulations!" She would say "I passed mine on the first try too and also got no deductions". 

Haha! My mum is the same, so annoying. I've made an effort to not be like this!

"Maybe I pull away too quickly and sulk if I feel people don't like me."

Friendship is a two way thing, give and take, and if you focus on your side of it, being there for the other person, giving space to talk without being overbearing etc, then you can see how the other person reacts.

I often pepper my speech with things like, please do tell me about X and Y if you need to talk but I totally understand if you do not want to, etc. Don't assume. Don't assume people will want to talk about a big issue, but don't assume they will not. Sometimes they want to escape their problems and just drink coffee and chat about neutral topics. But when they realise that you can be trusted, won't tell all to the other mums or whatever, they may open up and encourage you to do likewise.

Imagine a meeting with a new friend and the woman sits down and emptys her handbag on the table and tells you about every item in it, and with each item she says "Don't judge me", or "Please like me" etc.

Some people do this, metaphorically, I've also had it on blind dates.

Find neutral topics to talk about until the discussion gets more personal, don't brag or judge, you don't need to, just chat and see where it goes.

Good luck.

Nonotes - you are v self aware - you are going through a huge adjustment with baby etc - how were your parents with you - did they give you any praise - did they tell you what you were good at - did they make you feel special in any way?

Your self talk is pretty telling - you will have a talent - you are Unique which makes you special - not average - find something beautiful about yourself - maybe what your DH finds beautiful in you - start to appreciate this - start talking to yourself like the friend you want to find - the change starts from within you - I believe we meet people to help us move forward - your friends are currently highlighting this to you - some friends are just for a period of time - if you are very very lucky you get a friend that hangs around for life - but this takes someone who has completely dealt with their own issues - maybe start writing down your vents - you are allowed to have these feelings they are yours - you sound like you need validating as a person - you are special! You are unique and I am your friend

Good analogy on the handbag!

Kind acts are worth a thousand words

Some people on here under the guise of help are actually knocking you further - I hope you can distinguish who these are - especially as you have indicated you suffer with depression/ anxiety.

Greenberet. No my parents weren't that great with telling me that I was good at anything. But I didn't do anything to get praise for. I have 4 younger siblings that took all the time etc. Not that I think that's an excuse for me being largely ignored, but it's a reason.
Thank you for your lovely message.

I think this thread in itself is very bad for you because you are asking us to encourage you to be critical of yourself which is making you more self conscious.

You are not perfect. Accept yourself as you are. Would you give your acquaintances the benefit of the doubt over some of the things you said or thought would reveal you to be a certain way? I bet you would!

Life with a new baby can be difficult. You have had a massive change and so have your contemporaries. You are not the only one who feels socially awkward

I'm going to give the opposite advice to some people- don't change, just be yourself. You sound like you make acquaintances and casual friends quite easily due to being a bubbly (perhaps slightly boastful) person, and that's not what you are after. I'd be yourself rather than trying to modify what you do/talk about. Then you will find someone you really click with. It might not be this lady today though, but sometime over the next few years.

It takes me years to make good friends, I can superficially fit into friendship groups but they tend not to really work for me as much as a one to one friendship.

I wouldn't suggest changing to meet a man, and I don't think pretending to be a quiet listener who's very modest will work for you in the long run. If you do want to change one thing, make it be that you don't bang on about yourself all the time. But I really would go with being you and taking up interesting opportunities (volunteering, mum and baby groups, if you go back to work). Friendship is definitely about the opportunity- I had few 'mum' friends as it really was an environment and a type of living that I struggled to talk about and connect with others over, I've done much better making friends in the workplace- and my mum friends have taken over 10 years to cultivate!

themuttsnutts "Life with a new baby can be difficult. You have had a massive change and so have your contemporaries. You are not the only one who feels socially awkward"

Excellent point.

If the thread is not helpful to you then do step away from it. We cannot judge you as we do not know you and we also don't want to judge you.

Your biggest asset is self awareness, which is great. So from what you've said, and my own experience:

1. Never speak ill or judge anyone when chatting to friends. That's reserved strictly for v v close friends (ie your DH)
2. Let the other person talk more about themselves than you talk about yourself
3. Don't brag. If you've bought your baby the latest xxx you could say 'Ive bought baby a new babygro' but you don't need to mention the brand. Ever. Unless asked.
4. Turn resting bitch face into resting smiling face
5. Let people be, and if you think they may be pulling back, don't react, be pleasant always.

I suspect you're being too eager. Let other people suggest things, don't always be the one to make arrangements, although you haven't actually said you do this.

This stuff doesn't happen overnight. What I did was pick just one thing and worked on it for a few weeks. When it came naturally, I moved onto the next. Don't beat yourself up if you screw up. Chalk it up to experience and move on.

I'd also point out that catastrophising (no-one likes me) and black and white thinking (I'm unlikeable) are symptoms of depressive type thinking. You may not be depressed (or you may) but you might have got stuck in those ways of thinking.

I'd probably say to myself that having small babies is a really awful time for meeting new friends as all you have got is common is your babies, by saying this to myself, I'm not blaming myself for being crap or unlikeable, I'm kind of blaming the situation! This is a kinder way of treating yourself than assuming you have some major flaw, and probably more realistic as lots of women find this a very hard stage and struggle to adjust to their new life and find new friends.

If you feel you are slipping into being down, have a chat with your HV or GP.

You seem an engaging and thoughtful person from this thread, which is why I think your initial assessment of yourself is probably wrong.

Yeah, I really shouldn't speak ill of others, no matter how 'mind' it is.. it just doesn't go down well. Sometimes I guess people do it to make conversation!

I don't mind the thread making me self-critical, it's nice to have it out there rather than just in my head all the time. Feedback is great

My 3 closest and dearest friends I made in my 40s. It’s never too late!