Advice needed - how to deal with lying MIL?

[dontwannabelikethis18]

I need some advice on how to handle this and I don’t have anyone to ask in real life. It’s a MIL one, I’m afraid. Sorry, this is long.

I will start by staying that MIL is well known to be a very lovely and friendly woman, always smiling and thoughtful and so on. I have harboured the secret opinion that she uses these aspects of her personality to be very cheeky and entitled and even a little bit manipulative for a while. I would never say this to DH as he would be so hurt, but he himself has called her cheeky a few times so I don’t think it’s just me.

She adores DS and has been babysitting around once a week since the beginning of the year, which has been more for them to spend time together than anything. This has now moved onto him staying at hers overnight once a week, and she has also agreed to have him several times a week when I return to work hopefully in a few months time. I am grateful for the free childcare and we are to be honest depending on it quite a lot as my salary is relatively low, and to pay for childcare would make my returning to work financially pointless. I have had numerous concerns about her having him since the beginning of the year, all quite minor really but enough to make me worry and speak to DH. Typically he will call her to speak to her about it, she will cry and apologise, he will get upset for upsetting his mother and I will end up feeling like shit for daring to question her.

Recently DH collected DS (who is 1, btw) from hers and forgot his beaker. We were without it for a few weeks, the next time I saw it was when I was dropping DS off with her for another overnight stay. I went into her house and the beaker was sitting on her table and had blackcurrent squash in it. DS had been having very diluted squash for a while as it was the only way we could get him to drink water, but I was unhappy about it and had gradually made it weaker and weaker until he was fine with just plain water. I said to her I wanted him to just have water, and I emptied the beaker and re-filled it with just water. She chatted as I did this about how she didn’t think it would do any harm but agreed to just give him water.

A few days later and I’m unpacking DS’s things from him staying with her for two days as DH and I took a short break. The same beaker was in the bottom of his pushchair and I was surprised to see it as I thought it had become his beaker at his Gran’s house. It was filled with pineapple flavour squash. I was livid, and felt that this cemented the idea that had been secretly gnawing at me that she didn’t respect me as DS’s mother. I told DH when he came home a short while later and he as usual sided with me and called her. When he was finished he told me that she had said that she hadn’t filled it with squash, it was still filled from ages ago when he had left it there, and possibly because he was desperate to do so he believed her. When he relayed this to me I had a huge moment of relief as I thought I had just misunderstood, it took a few minutes for me to think, hang on, that’s bollocks. By this time he was so happy that it was resolved I couldn’t bring myself to tell him that his lovely mum had just lied to him.

I realised that I needed to start speaking to her myself instead of going through DH as she will just manipulate him. I was also determined to confront her about this the next time I see her. This will be tomorrow as she comes to us to take care of DS as I take my driving test. I don’t want to rile myself up before the test so planned to speak to her after I’ve come home, but this feels so underhanded, calling her out after I’ve used her as childcare again? I also didn’t want to tell DH as he will be totally devastated, he adores her and I’ve already heard him on the phone since that time apologising to her. I was going to call her out on the squash, the lying about it and manipulating DH and demanding that it all stops immediately or she can’t have him anymore. The thing is, DH will be in the house working from home at this time and if she decides to escalate the situation he will come out and become involved. I have no doubt that she is excellent at playing the victim, and I fear myself become diminished in his eyes because I keep criticising and upsetting his lovely mother. It could all very easily go tits up, and I’m shockingly bad at confrontation anyway. I almost never do it because it terrifies me but I’ll feel so pathetic if I let it slide.

So I don’t know what to do. Do I speak to her about it risking a big blow up and upsetting my DH and painting myself as the bad guy (again)? Say nothing but be vigilant and gather evidence for the inevitable next time? If I speak to her, should I do it straight away or wait until after I’ve come back from the driving test? Btw, we had arranged for her to come here at a specific time but she has now said she will come an hour and a quarter earlier than planned, so she will be sitting around stressing me out before my test anyway. Maybe this would be less two faced, but then I don’t trust her not to talk a lot of shit about me to DH when I’m not there. Or maybe I should just speak to DH and tell him all this, possibly with the hope that we can speak to her together? But this feels like ganging up on her, plus DH isn’t too happy with me right now because of something else so I doubt it would go well. I just can’t see a way to come out on top, but I can’t just ignore it. I know the squash itself is a minor thing but deliberately doing the opposite of what I asked (and I really don’t ask for much!) is a huge problem for me, it indicates that I can’t fully trust her and that she doesn’t respect that I am DS’s mother. I want to stand up for DH too as I feel there is an element of emotional abuse there from her and that infuriates me on another level again.

So MNers that have made it to the end of this very long post, WWYD? How would you deal with this?

She can't have him anymore unless she stops giving him squash.....except today when you need her for your driving test.

I think you need to calm down. Livid over juice? Really?

You are both being played here like a violin by his manipulative mother. She gaslights him and tries to gaslight you as well. She is not and cannot be at all trusted here especially to look after your more precious resource, that being your child. She also knows that you do not like confrontation and will do anything to avoid that, that is being used by her against you.

At the very least you need higher boundaries re her and I would actually now further distance myself and your son from her. No more overnights or she looking after your son. Find alternative childcare. Your son as well needs emotionally healthy and kind role models, she is neither here.

Your H is mired in his own fear, obligation and guilt and he has been well trained to serve her too from an early age. This from her is his "normal" to him and shifting that mindset is nigh on impossible.
I would read "Toxic Inlaws" written by Susan Forward to further understand the power and control dynamics. Your Hs inertia too when it comes to his mother simply hurts him as well as you. He on some level I would think would like you all to get along so he is not at all involved or deal with this. He does not want to or equally cannot deal with his mother due to his own fog so you are going to have to. This is your family unit here that is being undermined and harmed by her manipulation. Would you have tolerated this from a friend, no you would not. She is no different.

Your DH may well want to continue to have a relationship with his mother but it does not follow that you or your son have to meekly fall in behind.

Cancel her visit to you today, tell her this is not working for you and her visit is now off.

Why is she visiting you anyway pre your driving test?. Where is your H at that time?. She also visiting you 75 minutes prior to your driving test is also manipulative and designed to further rile you and set you up into potentially failing that.

Emotional abuse of your DH over a cup of juice? Dear God I hope I never get a DIL like this.

If he is at work, ask a friend or neighbour to watch your son for you instead.

Ffs have you got nothing else to worry about...get some perspective...a bit of squash is not going to kill your child...jeez get a grip or pay for your childcare !!!!

I would seriously consider picking your battles.

However once you return to work several days childcare and an overnight is quite alot and would make your MIL a significant care giver in your child's life - i would suggest cutting the overnight as its bet clear your not comfortable with this.

Is it really worth all the upset over some juice?? She provides free childcare, and other than this seems a nice person. Tell her again, nicely, that you would rather he had water and leave it there. Honestly, are you really livid over this?!

Sorry just re-read the bit about the driving test - that is manipulative.

Leave the baby with DH and takes yourself of to a cafe before your test for some breakfast and chill.

This is not about juice and never has been, that is a red herring. It is what lies behind MILs actions (i.e. power and control) that is far more telling here and OP and her H are being played like violins here by her husbands manipulative mother.

There are many who do not believe that some relations can and do act like this mainly because they do not thankfully see it with their own set of relations. But it does happen and some people within families can and do act manipulatively for their own ends.

Wow. Just wow. For free childcare that allows me to keep my job I'd let my MIL give dc wine

Unless there are lots of other issues , I would let this go as it sounds although annoying, on its own it's quite a minor infraction of the usual grandparenting battles .

Good grief, what have I just read. Buy mini bottles of Evian and tell her you want him to drink them only. Why don’t you return to work when your son is older if without free childcare you don’t earn very much.

It's not the juice but the lying.

You cannot have this woman providing lots of childcare. It's never going to work. Plus the relationship will be mangled because you're obviously getting by at the moment on a lot of falseness.

You'll need to make different arrangements. Sorry. Returning to work and spending most of your wages on childcare is normal.

@AttilaTheMeerkat I know that some relations can be manipulative but the OP has actually not given any real examples of that. I read it that MIL forgot about the no juice rule, as it's quite recent. Also, maybe she is coming early thinking she can help out with grandchild so OP can relax and prepare for her test? It seems whatever MIL does she is seen as manipulative and nasty, when in fact she is massively helping OP and her DH with their child and saving them so much financially. Perhaps I am misreading but to be the OP sounds paranoid and perhaps struggling with having to share the role of caregiver to her child?

Free childcare is never that.
Always comes at a price.
But your dh needs to grow a pair.
Unless he wil be happy taking a toddler to the dentist for his blackened teeth removed.
It will get worse op, she will stamp on all your parenting choices.

If you let her.

'I want to stand up for DH too as I feel there is an element of emotional abuse there from her and that infuriates me on another level again.'

FFS

Just say 'water only' simple easy words.

So much pussy footing around

Also she has him weekly and overnight, and this is ramping up??

Don't accuse her to be emotionally abusive, but then use her as your 'low paid' job wouldn't cover childcare.

I would try and forget about it for now as your test is more important and you don't want to get stressed and be thinking about it during your test. You need to concentrate on that alone at the moment.

But I would ring her again and ask her if she could please either turn up at the time you asked or turn up early and take your son out to the park straight away, so that you have an hour to have a cup of tea and destress on your own before the test.

Leave the whole squash incident until another time. My MIL is similar and I know how deeply annoying and disrespectful it is, but I would let it slide until a few days have passed.

Good luck for your driving test and forget everything else!!!

She's providing a lot of free childcare, you state yourself your child drinks much more when he is given squash and yet you are livid? All the vitriol and name calling in your OP is over the top and you need to calm down. Your child will eat/drink lots of things outside your home that may not be ideal - you need to trust the people you leave them in the care of to make good choices.

Your poor DH sounds caught between two women having a power struggle - your say you cant see a way to come out top. He as usual sides with you - does he or does he do it for an easy life.

On both sides it just seems an unneccesarily toxic game of one upmanship and needing to be in charge. Honestly OP it sounds like your poor DH is being emotionally abused from both sides

Hi MrsPuff

@AttilaTheMeerkat I know that some relations can be manipulative but the OP has actually not given any real examples of that. I read it that MIL forgot about the no juice rule, as it's quite recent. Also, maybe she is coming early thinking she can help out with grandchild so OP can relax and prepare for her test?

Unfortunately manipulators like his mother are highly skilled and people do not realise that they have been manipulated and otherwise used till much later on. MIL did not forget the juice rule at all, she decided to give her grandson juice because that is what she wanted to do. Its all about getting her needs and wants met and using other people to achieve that. OPs wishes here were never given any credence at all.

Childcare like his mother provides always but always comes at a cost. I am not at all against family members doing childcare but those people doing the caring really need also to be emotionally healthy role models.

As for she wanting to turn up 75 minutes prior to a driving test, that is deliberate as well. Its no help and is not help at all, infact she herself decided to turn up far earlier too. Would you be wanting this, no. I certainly would not anyone in my home prior to me taking a driving test, I would need to be on my own and gather my thoughts and nerves together properly.

It’s not about the juice! Although giving squash to small toddlers for no good reason is quite grim. It’s the fact that the MIL has lied about it multiple times. First she said she would abide by OP’s request and then she didn’t, and then she lied about having given the DC squash after OP had asked her not to. If she’s willing to disregard OP’s wishes and lie about something this trivial, what other things will she disregard and lie about? And this sounds like just the one lie OP could prove but she has suspected others all along.

All that being said, OP, you need to consider your goal here. If you are reliant on your MIL for childcare you need to take her for what she is. She isn’t going to change and she isn’t going to stop lying to you. When she thinks your wishes are incorrect she will substitute her judgment for yours every time. If you think it will only be about smallish stuff but overall she will be a responsible and loving caregiver, you may want to let this one slide. She’ll never admit it and as you said it could easily go tits up. But if you feel you can no longer trust her to care for your child then confront her, but be prepared to rethink your childcare arrangements. If you’re not paying your MIL you don’t have much leverage I’m afraid. That’s why these situations can get very complicated. Frankly I don’t see this arrangement working out long term anyway but you may want to try. Free childcare that enables you to restart your career is no small thing.

OMG really? She gave him juice, and then lied about it because she knows how you'd overreact if you knew!!!? You've never lied about anything OP? No white lies? Ever? Get a grip ffs! Look, she loves him, that's the important thing! She may not do everything her controlling Dil wants her to do, but THE LOVE is there! Daycare won't love him, childminder or nursery won't! That poor woman!

Her H is burying his head in the sand out of his own inertia, fear, obligation and guilt. Look too at how he has apologised to his mother for some action that he himself did not do, this is all out of he being so conditioned to do such a thing. Inertia on his part simply hurts him further as well as the OP. He cannot stand up for his own self here let alone his wife and so they both continue to be manipulated. OP can and should take a stand here and maintain higher and consistent boundaries. What is and is not acceptable to the OP and her H here re his mother?.

FFS it's not a power struggle where one person is lying and the other is being lied to, what kind of stupidity is that?

OP, I think you're going to have to find a paid childminder, but please remember that it's not just enabling you to go to work, it's enabling your husband to work too - and look at the cost from a family point of view.