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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Thread for my DP: why I'm vulnerable unmarried

161 replies

Ebonyscrooge · 14/09/2018 17:11

Can you please comment saying precisely why I am vulberable as an unmarried mother of 2 who works part-time?

-House is jointly owned
-Joint Life insurance
-Pensions to be left to each other

My partner does not see how/why this leaves me still vulnerable.

Thankyou.

OP posts:
user1498572889 · 14/09/2018 17:16

Do u think u are vulnerable? I don’t think you are. I’ve been happily unmarried with kids but with a partner and I have never felt vulnerable.

HoleyCoMoley · 14/09/2018 17:22

If either of you has to go into care in the future would the house have to be sold to pay for it, especially as the dc will be grown up and not dependents. Same with inheritance tax if the house ever gets sold or when one of you dies, pension companies don't always pay out to partners if you read the small print, make sure you write an expression of wish form, no widows pension.

NotTheFordType · 14/09/2018 17:26

The minute you decide to split, the only thing you have is your share of the house. No pension, no life insurance, no chance of a mesher order so kids can stay in the marital home.

You are not each others' next of kin so if either of you wind up in hospital in a serious condition, your parents could legally keep you out of the loop and not in charge of any decisions.

If one of you has stopped working/reduced hours in order to provide childcare, you will remain uncompensated for that sacrifice.

HoleyCoMoley · 14/09/2018 17:33

It's a good idea to make Wills, otherwise money and house will be split according to the rules, think about power of attorney and advance careplans, not because you're both unwell at the moment but if anything does happen you have made a plan which is very important with dc.

GuavaPalava · 14/09/2018 17:42

You really shouldn't have to lay out a case here to him. I take it he doesn't want to get married and you do? Are you attempting to change his mind? And is he open to changing it?

AgentJohnson · 14/09/2018 18:01

If you can’t convince him, how the hell are we supposed to.

Finnwood · 14/09/2018 18:09

OP's DP: marry the woman. If she's good enough to be the mother of your children then she's more than good enough to be your wife. Do it because she wants it, not because a bunch of randoms on the net need to point out how she would be vulnerable if you split or died. You can research that yourself.

butterflysugarbaby · 14/09/2018 18:34

@EbonyScrooge

Sorry to state the bloody blindingly obvious question, and I don't mean to be rude, but why did you have TWO children with this man before getting married, if being married (and your security) was so important to you?

No way in hell would I ever have children by a man I wasn't married to.

KERALA1 · 14/09/2018 18:41

Either of you can very easily sever your joint tenancy
If your individual estates are over £325k you hit by iht (£500k if you leave main residence to children)
If you separate he has no obligations towards you just the children. Unmarried parents therefore unwise to compromise their career for the family in the slightest. No wedding certificate equals full time job or mr no marriage he steps back from his career and see how he likes that

AngelsSins · 14/09/2018 18:54

He doesn’t want to marry you. Whilst he’s happy for you to make sacrifices with your career, pension, financial independence etc, he’s not will to make the possible sacrifice of having to share his assets with the mother of his children who has enabled his career, looked after his children, and kept the house going.

brokenharbour · 14/09/2018 18:56

Do you have a decent part time wage and pension contribution? Enough to live on if you split?

If there's a huge inequality in your jobs then obviously you are vulnerable. But it depends obviously, you may be taking home more than him.

Ebonyscrooge · 14/09/2018 19:02

I earn significantly less.

OP posts:
pog100 · 14/09/2018 19:11

Do you feel that any savings and purchases you make while you are together belong to him, you or both of you equally. That's really the nub of it. Martial assets are just that, assets acquired during the marriage and belong to you equally. If your are not married then assets belong to one or the other of you, unless explicitly stated, such as the house. As the lower earner and part timer, presumably to enable child rearing, you you very vulnerable in this way.

Lordamighty · 14/09/2018 19:20

If you work part time you are sacrificing salary, pension & career prospects to care for children that are equally his responsibility. If you split in the future you would be significantly worse off than him. All the risks are being taken by you, he is sacrificing nothing. At least being married would give you security & some financial protection.
No one should need this spelling out to them by random strangers on the internet.

JustHereForThePooStories · 14/09/2018 19:33

Either of you can change your wills at any time without notifying the other.

Tax reasons stated up thread.

Next of kin issue already addressed.

Pension entitlement.

If you want protection, get married. If you're with someone who refuses to give you this protection, get out.

itisthattimeagain · 14/09/2018 19:40

@butterflysugarbaby Say nobody wanted to marry you would that mean you'd never have children ?

I personally would rather have children and be unmarried.

It's not exactly romantic to say to someone I want to get married so if we spilt up I get a fair share of your pension. Geez.

JustHereForThePooStories · 14/09/2018 19:43

It's not exactly romantic to say to someone I want to get married so if we spilt up I get a fair share of your pension

Romance is all well and good, but a marriage is a legal contract. Getting married for financial and pension protection makes perfect sense.

Atlantea · 14/09/2018 19:43

If I am good enough to have dc with you then I'm damned good enough to marry

iMatter · 14/09/2018 19:44

Inheritance tax

JungWan · 14/09/2018 19:45

Well if you take time out of your career to look after kids then that is going to cost you not him.

Do not give up work.

If he doesnt meet you 50:50 with chilcare then you are vulnerable.

You shouldnt be the default carer.

But tbh, financials aside, if he doesnt want to marry you and you want to marry him, that would be a massive turn off for me. Being valued and appreciated is a turn on. Knowing that somebody darent risk losing you. That is what a woman wants.
This guy isnt do8ng that.

I left a man who thought he could do better. I guess.

Loopytiles · 14/09/2018 19:48

Most men who refuse to marry know full well that this is to the financial detriment of the person with fewer financial assets and earnings.

If he won’t marry you, go back to work FT asap and don’t compromise your career any more than he is willing to.

AynRandTheObjectivist · 14/09/2018 19:51

In a nutshell, if you split up then there will be no compensation for the earning power, now and long term, that you lost in going part time to raise the kids. Not unless your partner is an absolute prince of a man, works this out and makes sure that you get it in the form of the existing assets and perhaps even from his own future earnings. You might get 50% of the house since you jointly own it but if you don't earn enough to buy him out/get anywhere new even if that asset gets liquidated, it might not do you a huge amount of good.

If he dies, there will be no IHT exemption for you (though the threshold on this is quite high, so it may not affect you; still, you don't know how much your house might be worth at the time one of you passes away). You will not get widows' pension (the recent ruling opened the possibility of that changing, but nothing has actually changed yet and it could go either way), nor automatic access to his bank accounts. If he's willed everything to you then you should get those when the estate is wound up but you are a lot more vulnerable to claims on his assets from blood relatives. If you were married, circumstances would have to be exceptional for relatives to successfully contest you for a share of assets.

If you split up, then as before: your contribution in childcare and long-term loss of earning power basically can't be legally enforced because your relationship does not exist in law. The point of divorce settlements is to recognise the contribution of the lower earning partner and to compensate them fairly for the long-term loss of earnings they have made for the sake of the family. Spousal maintenance is rare these days (though it does exist) but you ought to get more than 50% of everything to compensate for the fact that he's got untouched earning power and you've been stunted long term with regards to career advancement, pension provision etc. Going part time and being primarily responsible for children affect your long term earning power, and a judge will recognise this.

Sadly, he could conceivably change his will or empty his accounts without telling you.

Quite apart from all that, though, I would be wondering why I was good enough to shack up with, have his kids and take a financial hit to raise them, but not good enough to make a legal commitment. There have been a few of these threads recently so I hope not to reopen a very tired and bitter old argument, but I will say that this is how I feel, and I know it's how a lot of other women feel.

There is nothing wrong with a woman wanting legal protection for her contribution and recognition of her relationship. In most cases, it's the smart thing to do and protects the woman's interests. So if this is indeed what you want - and it is certainly what I wanted - don't let anyone make you feel that you're being somehow unreasonable or anti-feminist.

Ebonyscrooge · 14/09/2018 19:52

Working fulltime in my field whilst having young children is not sustainable. 90% of the women I know in my field with children work part-time... it would cause massive family stresses and me mental health issues.

OP posts:
PsychedelicSheep · 14/09/2018 19:52

How come you don't work full time if you feel vulnerable financially? Was it a joint decision or something you chose to do?

PsychedelicSheep · 14/09/2018 19:54

Sorry x post!

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