Thread for my DP: why I'm vulnerable unmarried

[Ebonyscrooge]

Can you please comment saying precisely why I am vulberable as an unmarried mother of 2 who works part-time?

-House is jointly owned
-Joint Life insurance
-Pensions to be left to each other

My partner does not see how/why this leaves me still vulnerable.

Thankyou.

This man does not want to marry you. He does not want you to have a share of what he sees as his assets in the event of a split.

If marriage and security is what you want, find another man.

That is what I'd advise my own daughter to do in your situation, although I'd hope she wouldn't have a child if she wasn't married.

Maybe I've just experienced too many bridezillas. Weddings are largely ridiculous affairs these days.

Marriage, however, is not ridiculous.

Yes, maybe you have.

At any rate, to be a bridezilla you have to be planning a wedding.

no “sensible middle class woman” has children out of wedlock is ridiculous misogyny. I did. As the higher earner it benefited me financially

There's your answer.

You did it as the higher earner. You didn't need the financial protection.

I didn't make the comment...but by and large...it's true.

Maybe she is planning a wedding. But doesn't have a groom yet that would be super bridezilla.

For all those saying they'd never have a child out of wedlock etc. Easy to say when it's not you. I didn't plan my first pregnancy and so wasn't married. It's easily done!

yeh why do women with great jobs get offended by these threads!

it's like they don't want to acknowledge that out there behind the scenes there are women struggling to have their needs met in a relationship, their labour remunerated fairly, their share of the childcare not exploited.......................

Sparklyfee

Not necessarily. I was wondering if OP is wanting the big white wedding etc and using the security angle to persuade DP.

She suggested a registry office and he declined.

He doesn't want marriage. As long as women continue having children without marriage and become SAHM /work PT, they will continue being vulnerable financially.

If more women insisted on it... men would marry them first...or move on to the next woman they can convince to have a baby and be a family with.. minus the protection of marriage.

They want the benefits of marriage...without marriage.

Women have the power not to find themselves in this situation...but time and time again...they get stuffed.

There was a thread on here a while ago about a woman who's OH wanted a baby. She said yes..but marriage first. They were shopping for the engagement ring for almost a year.

She came on MN and was told to speak to him about this lengthy process. Turns out he didnt want marriage...but thought buy saying he'd buy an engagement ring was enough.

He was hoping she'd let her guard down. She ended the relationship...only for him to come back around 3 months later saying he was ready to marry her.

She wasn't interested anymore. He'd strung her along all that time.

Maybe she is planning a wedding. But doesn't have a groom yet confused that would be super bridezilla.

Well given that neither of her posts have said anything about weddings, and are all about the legalities and protections of marriage, I think it's safe to say that it's not her demands for diamond encrusted Caroline Castigliano that are prompting this discussion.

Even if it were, the fact still remains that this rich man is happy to live with her, impregnate her and have her become financially vulnerable with the childcare, but won't make a legal commitment. If it's because he genuinely doesn't realise that this is what marriage does and thinks it's all about aforementioned Castigliano, he's thick as shit. But I suspect that's not what's putting him off.

I haven't seen the bit about her suggesting registry office. If he won't just pop to the registry office just the two of them then yes, I'd agree he probably doesn't want to marry her.

But I haven't seen her other thread....and this one was set up specifically to show her DP and prove her point (which is valid, I agree)

Therefore if she is trying to use the security angle to try and get the wedding of the year, she is unlikely to mention weddings. Just a thought.

But like I said, I'm bridezilla-ed out.

it's like they don't want to acknowledge that out there behind the scenes there are women struggling to have their needs met in a relationship, their labour remunerated fairly, their share of the childcare not exploited.......................

Then you don't have kids with someone if you're not married. And if you do, you don't give up your FT job to enable the partner to carry on financially as if nothing has changed.

By having a child and being unmarried, then having another, quitting FT work to look after them, you make yourself the architect of your own financial insecurity.

Closing the stable door after the horse has bolted is pointless.

This guy doesn't want to marry the OP. So she gets a FT job and they share the care and costs or leaves.

It does make me angry to read about women in similar situations to you, who want to marry their partner (and father of their DC) but whose partner refuses. (I appreciate this may or may not be your own exact situation.)

Why? If one wants the financial security of marriage but chooses instead to have children whilst unmarried and packs in FT work to allow one party not to take a financial hit then that's their lookout. They're adults. They were perfectly able to ditch a person who wouldn't marry them if that was a dealbreaker.

Those speaking about the protection of marriage need to remember that it's true for men too. Unmarried fathers can find it hard to get access. Maybe things are much better these days but my DH had a terrible time seeing my DSD, despite being an excellent dad who had done nothing wrong. We saw her every weekend until I got pregnant with my first. His ex then went spare suddenly even though the split had happened over 5 years previously, and refused to let her come. Our solicitor told us there wasn't much we could do. Luckily DSD was entering her teens so was able to arrange her own contact after a year or so but it was a harrowing time.

I've been in these shoes. The only way to get your life back is to accept you made a mistake. You pack a bag and walk away. You've no rights, no security and you have dependents to boot. But I still advise walking away pull the front door closed behind you and go back to your parents if you can while you get a job, or get a better job and begin the process of feathering your own nest.

My own x always saw it that he was doing me a massive favour providing me with a roof over my head but what he was preventing me from doing was starting to feather my own nest. So at the risk of outing myself I had a few very lean years where I had to work part time but my children grew up, child care costs fell and just over a decade later I'm so so so so so glad I took the decision to walk away and start planning my own life. I've a modest salary now and a tiny shabby house and a meagre pension!!! But I'm not fucking screwed which is where Id be if I'd stayed with him, graciously magnanimously providing me with a roof over my head. The benevolence of it! ha.

@sandy - how awful to agree with that. “No sensible middle class woman” has children outside of marriage. It’s based on all sorts of misogynistic assumptions. You could equally say, “no sensible middle class woman” marry someone who earns less than them (where’s your protection then?).

You agree with that comment then say it true then say “there’s my answer” and that it made sense for me cos I had more money and didn’t need the “protection”. But I am a sensible middle class woman (ish) and I had children out of wedlock. So I am afraid your comment makes no sense! Lots of sensible middle class women have children out of wedlock and it suits some of them just fine (others not so much).

I despair at the horrible attitudes to unmarried mothers on mumsnet. And the nasty “why didn’t you get married before you had children”. How does that help op when she is unmarried with two kids!

My cliched jackass of an ex walked out leaving me with a 4yo and newborn to one of his many flings.

He has fuck all contact (too busy) and has never got either kid a birthday or christmas card or gift or message. His entire family cut us off.

Despite all of this I had to force through divorce against his wishes, he dragged it out for years, even his lawyer seemed sick of him.

9 years later and he still hasn't married her despite starting another family and being an extremely high earner. He used the start of their family to slash maintenance for my two down to the legal minimum (upping his pension payments to reduce as far as possible) because their double income would take a hit from her maternity leave.

Their kid is nearly 3 and has never met mine, probably don't even know we exist. I knew her way before my marriage so she knew the score and isn't the poor ignorant other woman, she knew fine she was choosing a terrible father and cheating bastard husband and they still aren't married!

I figure by now she will have realised she was never the only port in no storm, he will have definitely taken a swing at her as is his habit and will no doubt be showcasing his incredible lack of parental inclination. She has chosen to put up with all that and will presumably continue to do so since she has no legal leg to stand on until he walks out of there too.

I pity the fool.

And for those who said my comment was the answer is to be richer - eh no. The answer is not to give up your career on someone else’s unenforceable promise to support you. Make him do his fair share of housework and childcare. Then you won’t be any worse off than you otherwise would be and better off than a single parent as you get to share living costs and childcare.

Tbh a lot of married women would be well advised to take that course of action too. Depending on someone else for financial security doesn’t always work out so well, married or not.

Oh and I wasn't that bothered about marriage, wasn't needed as far as I was concerned. Did it to make it official but never in a million years imagined I would end up a single parent. So thank goodness I did or my kids would have got nothing - at least divorce gives a straight 50% split.

If I had it over I would not have sacrificed my career for his that's for sure!

Men rob women all the time. 90% of single parents are women.

Champions- can’t count how many times I have seen women who don’t want to leave abusive husbands on threads as he is the financial provider. It is of course all part of the abuse but being married often doesn’t make it easier to leave in these situations as the wife is still financially dependent.

Your post is sad. I hope if the new partner is indeed being abused she can get the strength to leave.

OP's DP: marry the woman. If she's good enough to be the mother of your children then she's more than good enough to be your wife. Do it because she wants it, not because a bunch of randoms on the net need to point out how she would be vulnerable if you split or died. You can research that yourself.

Yes, that.

Is he resisting because you really want a wedding rather than a marriage?

Yeah so desperate for a wedding she had two kids for him.

Do it because she wants it, not because a bunch of randoms on the net need to point out how she would be vulnerable if you split or died.

He obviously doesn't or he'd have done it by now. I'm sure she's discussed it with him already. He doesn't want to. Why should anyone marry another person when they don't want to?

I hope so too but I know his MO and she is likely under the thumb, I know I was.

I think it is often part of the arrogance of those foolish enough to knowingly be involved in affairs that things will be different for them because they are special. And special is of course how abusers reel their victims in.

Controlling abusers are more common than people think and the fact is they don't change. They do get bored and move on if they don't get the results they want, solicitors can help with that. Their control thrives on dependency so marriage is one way a woman can have a little legal and financial protection if she can escape. It is a legal contract designed to protect dependants and I wish more women knew it.

OP doesn't say if her partner has been married previously or if there are any other children involved. It is relevant.

I agree with a pp that the time has come to get off the fence. 2 children in a stalled relationship is ignoring the benefit of the law and, knowing what I know now, not putting the children first. I have no problem with couples agreeing not to marry and raise a family, I have a problem with one parent refusing to give that family the legal protection and representation of next of kin. Why the hell not? Waiting for a better offer? Gambling addict? Existing wife? I mean what possible reason is there really for refusing to marry the mother of your child and assuring that if you are hit by a bus tomorrow she doesn't have to call your mother to beg for access to your funeral arrangements?

There is no such thing as a common law wife.

@Pringlesaddict

She had 2 kids for him?? I've obviously missed the bit where she had kids for him.

And I actually know people who want the wedding so much, the holidays so much etc etc. that they get into debt for them. Just to keep up with the Jones' on Insta.

I've now found OPs original thread and yes, in it she says that he doesn't want a wedding cause it's too expensive. She said she suggested registry office. However, she didn't say that the registry office wedding would simply be the two of them getting married in a simple ceremony that costs very little. We have no idea why he thinks a wedding would be expensive but apparently he does.

He obviously doesn't or he'd have done it by now. I'm sure she's discussed it with him already. He doesn't want to. Why should anyone marry another person when they don't want to?

Because for all the reasons mentioned previously they care about their partner not being screwed over when they've risked themselves in quite a lot of ways?

For all those saying they'd never have a child out of wedlock etc. Easy to say when it's not you. I didn't plan my first pregnancy and so wasn't married. It's easily done!

I disagree. Planned or not... I wouldn't have a child without being married. If the father wasn't prepared to marry me...or if I didnt want to marry him....because I've had boyfriends who weren't good enough for me to marry .... I wouldn't be having their child.

If I was 40+ and felt it was my last chance ...maybe then I would....bit not as a young eligible woman who has no baggage.

It's a choice you make and should then be prepared to struggle financially and realise the father can get away with giving minimal child support.

If he's self employed..he can give way less after cooking the books.