So much has happened to my DH he's not the person I married. Do I stay or go?

[CountrysideGirl]

This is going to be long so please stick with me as I'm struggling and need some advice.

I've been with DH for 10 years, married for 6 years and have 2 DC. We were very close and got together in tricky circumstances as he was friends with my then OH and watched him emotionally abuse me. He gave up a lot for me and we were rock solid in the beginning. Things started to change between us when I was pregnant with DC2. He was intolerant of my tiredness, snappy with DC1, distant and unkind. I put it down to work stress, having a child who didn't sleep and was a busy toddler. I had a very difficult birth and start with DC1 so i was euphoric and proud to deliver my DC2 naturally and without complication. However he couldn't show me any kindness and got agitated when the baby cried or I needed help. A few months later after DC2 was quite unwell and we ended up in hospital I was diagnosed with PND. I sought lots of help and worked hard to get better, including medication. DH was quite dismissive and couldn't get his head around it. A little while after this he seemingly threw himself into work and we drifted along. One evening i said to him that i was worried i had an infection/thrush when he went very quiet. I accused him of an affair which would fit with his behaviour but he told me he'd been raped by 2 men whilst on a stag do 8 months before. Obviously this was a massive shock but I promised to work through it with him.

That was 3 years ago. Since then we bought a house which needs renovating, I've changed careers and in the past 18 months DH started to get unwell and under is now undee consultant care and ongoing treatment/investigations with no straightforward answers. He's lost a lot of weight (3 stone), is exhausted, moody, unkind to me and short tempered with the children. I'm trying so hard to be there for him but I'm struggling. We can't have a conversation about anything remotely sensitive without it becoming an argument. I don't feel like we're facing anything as a team and we have different views on how to move forward. I feel detached from him and our marriage. I don't know how to move forward. I really want my old DH back but feel like too much has happened.

Your husband needs help to overcome his traumatizing experience. If your man is a "typical manly man" like my DH, then being raped by another man, or 2 in this case, he would feel embarrassed and humiliated by this. He won't see it as him being a victim, he will see it as him being ashamed.

Please help him through this, you sound like such a loving and caring wife and he is so lucky to have you. Maybe try giving him a bit of distance, don't bring up what has happened, and try and arrange fun family activities? Whether its just having a movie night with snacks, going to a park for the day having a picnic, going to a free interactive childrens museum, something that will take his mind off everything and make him feel happy again even if it is just for the day. Tell him you are here for him when he is ready to speak and that you do not judge, and that you just want to help him be happy again. When he is ready he will talk to you. In the mean time, privately research into routes he can take into overcoming this such as counselling etc. So when he does want help you know the steps to take, but don't push it upon him unwanted. It will push him further from you and further into this dark hole he is in

You cannot help someone who doesn't want help

So very sorry to hear this and just wanted to send you both lots of strength

I think there are limits to the help you should be expected to provide, even within a marriage.

I have been days away from seeking counselling on a few occasions over the last few years (not for SA). I never quite went, as I managed to pull myself back, but had I gone, it would have been mainly because I was worried about the effect it was having on our marriage.

I do expect my spouse (who is wonderful) to support me for better or worse - but with the caveat that I need to support myself too. The thought of him spending his life trying to "make me better", was thoroughly upsetting.

You have children to care for, and you need to be in a good place yourself to do this. You cannot take ultimate responsibility for his mental health, even though what happened to him was truly appalling. Once you have reached your limit - and only you know where that is - you need to walk away to protect yourself and your children. x

There is only so much the op can do her DH is responsible for himself and his own wellbeing if he refuses to get help that is his choice.

Same for any illness or addiction, it seems harsh to issue an ultimatum but it is often necessary. Op can't face staying in a miserable marriage nor should she, her DH isn't going to magically improve without intervention.

well said @TheConquestOfHappiness

Oops just read it anal herpes sorry didn't know that was a thing

Slapbitch rape IS penetrative sex. Why would he need an erection to be raped?? Even though rape victims, both male and female do sometimes get involuntary physical reactions whilst being raped with can in fact add to the shame. What a bloody awful comment.

OP I feel very sad for both of you. I will say though that he does need to seek help and support to come to terms with this and if he isn't willing to do so then you are not obliged to stick around to be his emotional punching bag, regardless of his understandable trauma.

It's indeed awful that something like this has happened to him, but honestly if he won't engage with any help and is making your and the children's lives a misery, how long must you stick it out? You only get one life and are not required to sacrifice it for someone else.

I think the question about consensual sex is valid

No it's not. Not ever. Why is it 'we believe you' when women are raped, but not when a man is. Wether you know anal herpes is a thing or not.

he surely must have had penetrative sex which doesn't really fit with rape

Eh?

Conquest makes important points, but there is a limit to how much negative behaviour a spouse can or should deal with.

OP has already endured 3 years. It’s not clear whether her H will change his behaviour towards her (or the DC) and he seems unwilling to seek help of any kind.

Oh dear...for all those who haven't RTFT, the OP's DH was raped by 2 men. Sorry to be blunt, but he would not be the one doing the penetrating - and STIs can be caught no matter who does the penetrating.

For other posters...@Mary1935 & @slapbitchface - no you don't need to have penetrative sex to catch some STIs - this includes genital herpes, syphilis, HPV etc if the conditions are right.

Sorry OP, just had to clear that up. I'm so sorry you're having to go through this and it's got to be so tough not knowing how to help. From what I can gather, your DH told you about the rape 8 months after it happened, so I'm assuming you were both tested then? so if HIV tests were done, and they were negative for both of you, then that is conclusive, as would any test for HIV done more than 3 months after the event. However the constant flare-ups of the herpes and illness does seem to show a low immune system, so I hope he is getting the best possible care and you can find out what is causing his current illness.

As for what to do, you've had some great advice on here from those like TheConquestofHappiness. The important thing is to do what you can to help yourself, and part of that is knowing what you can do to help your DH. Sending you

Slapbitch. WTAF! I have read some bullcrap in my time but your initial post, is some high quality shit. The fact that so many posters are questioning the validity of your H’s assault, is exactly why male rape is so underreported.

The trauma is slowly consuming your H and it must be heartbreaking to watch. I can’t offer any advice except to get counselling for yourself. I do not know if your marriage can survive this or if your H can ever get to a place where it isn’t all consuming but as much as you love your H you can’t support him if the aftermath of his rape consumes you too.

Much love and hugs.

OP I think in the circumstance youve described and if he shuts down couples counselling/individual counselling then I would look at trial seperation so that you and your kids are removed what is a damaging emotional situation for your family.

Its absolutely traumatizing what has happened to him and I cant imagine the turmoil and PTSD he is under but there has to be a point where you have to recognise the effect you have on your family. But you have to be prepared that this may never happen.

I am going to sound harsh but we all have a responsibility to our mental health. What he has gone through is absolutely terrible and I feel so sorry for you all. However he is a father and husband and he also needs to think about the impact on you and be kinder to himself. It’s sounds like he needs professional help to process this trauma or you are going to be in limbo.

Appalling responses from some people questioning your husband's account of what happened. Utterly heartless and actually brainless too.

OP, I'm so sorry you are going through this. My heart goes out to you both. You husband is understandably broken, but as another poster put perfectly, you cannot be his emotional punching bag forever. That isn't fair or healthy for anyone.

Perhaps state this to your husband, along with the fact that you love him and want to work through it together, but if that if he continues to not engage or be cruel to you, it will end up destroying you. Even if he does not engage when you say this, he will have at least heard it.

If it was me, I might set a date by which time something needs to have changed (not fixed, but changed) and if it doesn't, consider some kind of separation. It might actually be something like this that he needs to make him confront his problems.

Wishing both of you all the best 🌺

I feel so desperately sorry for your husband. It’s very clear that what happened has seriously seriously harmed him and is harming you as a family.

No one can say what your own personal limits are, when I had reached mine I would hand write a letter to him and in it I would tell him how much I loved and admired him. That I hope he could find the strength to get support one day and that I would always care for him.

But, I really would try everything I could to stay and support him before getting to that point.

It sounds like there is a element of him offloading the horrible feelings he has onto you, almost scapegoating you. If only you could wave a magic wand and get him high quality trauma therapy.

Could you tell a therapist that something very traumatic happened and that he won’t disclose it. So at least they understand why you want to see them?

Again speaking from my experience of being the one suffering PTSD, my DH has stood by me, but I haven't treated him well at all at times. I've been moody, depressed and we haven't had full sex for 5 years. (Although having 2 adopted DDs, one with SN has also played a part in that!)

At times I've told my DH that he'd be better off if we weren't together. But he's still with me and things between us are much better than they were. You shouldn't feel obliged to stay with your DH, especially if he's causing emotional harm to you and your DDs. PTSD is really hard for families to cope with.

Your DH had no choice about what happened, but he does now have the choice whether to remain a victim or become a survivor and get help. I think you should give him an ultimatum and mean it.

Sorry to jump in on your thread, OP.

We wanted to remind everyone that we don't advocate victim blaming on Mumsnet, and also to direct you to our We Believe You campaign – please do have a read. We'll carry on removing victim-blaming posts, so please do report any of these that you see, and we will take a closer look.

We managed to have a good heart to heart today. I tried to be objective, non confrontational or blaming but I explained how I was feeling and how I felt we needed help to move forward. He admitted to feeling ashamed and embarrassed, exasperated but his recent extreme weight loss. He also admitted to not wanting to facing things and he does feel he can't go there at the moment to address the rape. But he's agreed to some couples counselling which is a massive relief. I'm not ready to throw the towel in but equally I'm not sure how long I can go on feeling like this. I told him this too.

I've read some very poignant points which have helped me get some clarity. I think I had begun to dismiss the effects of the rape on him and haven't been as understanding as I should of been. Equally I agree that I or the children shouldn't be emotional punchbags. I also really do love him and want to work it out. The only thing I can do is take it bit by bit and not expect a miracle.

Sending all love and prayers to you and your family OP, good luck

I can understand you dismissing the effects of the rape - he has been working very hard to convince himself and you that it had no effect, it's not surprising that you started to believe that.

I think it's vital that you keep seeking outside support, either on here or with a trusted private person in real life. If he is in denial about the ptsd, and you have no one to talk to openly, it's a complete mind fuck and very hard for you to think clearly about the situation.

As a prior poster suggested, would he agree to telling the couple's counsellor that a very traumatic event happened but that he's not ready to talk about it? At least then they have some context. I worry that if they know nothing about this, they will reach the wrong conclusions about the troubles you are having, and give you poor or even counterproductive guidance. There are some therapists who do couples counseling who have experience of working with trauma. It would be a good idea to pick one of them, even if you're not going to talk about the trauma, they would at least understand the subtext.

DH and I went through something similar although the trauma wasn't rape. He too denied it was an issue/told me there was nothing wrong for at least a couple of years. It broke me as I was effectively being gaslighted. The impact on me was horrific and I got my ducks in a row to leave (without DC as he was the primary care )

It took a week from me telling him it was over for him to have an epiphany and ask me to stay and what could he do.... I told him I'd give it 3 years if he got therapy etc etc. It's taken that long tbh for us to be happy together again.

Interestingly we had previously done couples therapy which was good and helpful but not as successful as it could have been because he still wasn't honest and open enough and because this point his behaviour had made me very unwell indeed.

It may be even in the future you do stil have to issue an ultimatum because his desire to not try (and I do mean try) and deal with it may remain greater than his desire to make your relationship work. Somehow leaving the marriage tips the balance...

I agree. You are minimising the effect of the rape, because he is. But it seems your problems started around this time. It’s 100% underlying your/his problems.
I agree get him to say there has been a trauma but he doesn’t want to talk about it.