CAN A NARCISSIST CHANGE?

[Isabella26xx]

Please answer honestly
Not judgemental etc

Can a person who has narcissist behaviour change or improve even? Can a life event help?

A narcissist who has toxic/abusive tendencies... I'm still not sure if there is a difference between all these or are they just in one category

Thanks

@Hoppinggreen, thankyou for your insight.

I am interested in how you felt people were not your equals, Is that in a particular way?

I believe all of us have the ability to behave badly at times, to be self absorbed and lacking in empathy. Perhaps in times of major stress or if we feel hurt by someone...however most peoples behaviour returns to "normal" ranges.
Ex (for a variety of reasons) seemed to stay in the elevated state..our marriage ended because of his behaviour and that caused him to feel even more "threatened" so his behaviour has now elevated to pathological levels of narcissism. It is almost as if the switches that most people can turn on/off are no longer controlled.A physiologist likened it to fairground mirrors where his views are distorted but they feel real and valid to him.
Ex believes that if me or the dc say ,"No" to him then his feelings are hurt. I have no doubt he believes his hurt is real and justified.

Hopping I grew up in a household where traumatic news and events were spoken about briefly but not really processed, even if the trauma was life-changing for the family.

E.g. My mum once told me that the day my dad died her sister had told her to send me and my sibling to school as normal. We were teenagers and had been with him while he died.

life for example I didn’t know that other people had an internal monologue when I was a child ( prob around 10/12). I thought that nobody else was intelligent enough. I thought that I was more intelligent, talented and better looking than 99% of the population and I thought most people would envy me and so if anyone reacted to me negatively was jealousy ( rather than the fact that I was a massive pain in the arse). At times I think I believed I was somewhat more “evolved” if that makes sense? If I couldn’t win/come out on top I wouldn’t do something - so I couldn’t lose/not achieve because I had DECIDED not to participate.
I can see some of this in DS to be honest but

Sorry, but he isn’t getting the nurture part so I’m sure he will be ok
As I said earlier I’m sure there’s a genetic component as he never met my father and gfather and I’m nc with my brother so DS isn’t learning the behaviour, it’s inherent

It's interesting that other people think it's genetic too. With dd it goes beyond regular autistic behaviour if there is such a thing. She's 11 and completely self centred but she also has a cruel streak. She loves to get people into trouble, adults and children alike. She's cruel to animals. It doesn't matter who gets hurt to get her own way. She makes stuff up to fit her narrative just like her dad did. She's been brought up better than that!

At a risk of falling into a classic mumsnet trap I do sometimes wonder if it's a form of autism. Not that all autistic people are narcissistic but the same as some are savants, some take the me first narrative to an extreme.

The thing that really astonished me about narcissists is that they genuinely believe their narrative. Exh truly believes he has been hard done to. That he wasn't abusive. Etc.

The thing that really astonished me about narcissists is that they genuinely believe their narrative. Yup. Even when presented with incontrovertible evidence. It's their conviction that gets them through - they are believed, because they believe it themselves.

Even when presented with incontrovertible evidence

Ex had a Cafcass report which clearly said what Dc wanted and that his relationship with the dc was impacted by his refusal to listen to the dc. Ex only dropped his case when a barrister told him he would not win but he told Dc he was still right. Considering it is about their feelings he believes his opinion/feelings are more valid.

Yes I agree my stbxh said we had agreed to him keeping the kids for much longer when I had text proof this was a lie. He still insisted to his barrister it was true! She clearly believed him to till my solicitor en't to town on her! I could here them through the wall.!

In the middle of a breakdown a year and a bit after leaving narc EA stbx. It's been horrific and so many people have sided with him as he's so utterly charming and believable and yes believes all the shit he says too.

Example this week - dc returning film overnight stay 'Daddy says you're rich' despite leaving us in dire financial straights with debts he'd never mentioned but in both our names. We've been going to food banks etc. Then I asked him to return dc coat. He complained as it was a second hand one I bought. Can't win!

She's also autistic and he's probably on the spectrum and part of being autistic is a tendency to put yourself first. However I know plenty of kind unselfish autistic people so that may be a red herring. Ds is also autistic but does not show narcissistic behaviour. Does demonstrate mind blindness so completely ignores needs of other people but doesn't do it maliciously unlike dd

You're the only person Ive ever come across who like me can think/talk about NPD (or worse in my family circumstances) and ASD at the same time. My son is severely autistic and not Narcissistic but another family member is more than likely a Psychopath and strangely enough he did once say to me do you think I could be VHFA autistic. He's not but I could see why he was asking. His father almost certainly also had a PD disorder and my son is not the only person in the family who's autistic.

There's also Biploar and Schizophrenia in the family as well on his side.

At a risk of falling into a classic mumsnet trap I do sometimes wonder if it's a form of autism

There was a very interesting thread a few years ago where people we're curious about a possible link between the two but not that its a form of autism. Ive actually never thought of that and I dont think it is but I do believe the perhaps where one spectrum can end another one could begin. Anyway there was a poster on the thread who worked in this field, she was a researcher, and just as the thread was becoming really interesting it was closed down because one mum who's son had just been diagnosed with autism was very upset by what she was reading (and not understanding). She was feeling extremely raw and it was all too much for her.

@lifebegins50
The thing about incontrovertible evidence is spot on. In all the fights that DP had to go through to get his divorce finalised, there were numerous occasions when his ex was told in no uncertain terms (including by her own solicitor and the court) that she was wrong. In a recent email she said and I quote, "that consent order isn't worth the paper it's written on". They truly believe their own shit.

No, and those that do end up in therapy, use what they learn about human psychology to further manipulate.

You're so right, @blueangel1 my F certainly did believe his own shit. Like his belief that a woman's adultery was worse than a man's adultery. He couldn't explain why that was so and just got angry when challenged. He also appeared to genuinely believe that my DM was being unfaithful to him.

He also believed himself to be a hotshot financial whizz and dabbled in the stock market, to my DM's despair.

.

Squidgee that prayer is chilling. Sorry for all of us who deal with narcissists. My mother has reaped havoc over much of my life and that prayer is truly her mantra. I have now gone no contact due to her doing something horrible to me. She emailed me after the event acknowledging her actions and justifying them. Now with hindsight realising that her actions were unjustifiable she is changing the narrative to convince herself and others that the events did not happen as they did. It's mind bogging but I truly think she's believes her own lies. The idea of her apologising is inconceivable to her.

@Babymamamama I had an argument with the narc in my life and his words to me were "that's your shit to deal with, nothing to do with me" yeah alright then! No accountability whatsoever. Twat.