CAN A NARCISSIST CHANGE?

[Isabella26xx]

Please answer honestly
Not judgemental etc

Can a person who has narcissist behaviour change or improve even? Can a life event help?

A narcissist who has toxic/abusive tendencies... I'm still not sure if there is a difference between all these or are they just in one category

Thanks

No I don't believe so. My ex-h is a classic narc. I didn't realise quite how much until after he left, his behaviour, gaslighting, re-writing of history, manipulation, financial and emotional abuse and his utter assassination of me to the vile bitch he left me for, whereby they joined forces to tell me they "knew the truth" and I was a "sad fuck, a nasty horrible no-mark and they were bored of my pitiful bleating". It has taken me nearly five years to recover (and I am not quite there yet). They forced me into breakdown.

BUT

He's met his match there...she is an even bigger narc than him. She also holds all the power, the financial control, houses him, gave him a car. How the worm has turned. I get a lot of comfort from seeing how controlled and manipulated he is. Unfortunately we have a child together otherwise I would have never had contact with him again. He has just got worse and worse as time has gone on, he can't take his anger out on her, so it's been me. How he has treated our son and I, enabled and encouraged by OW, has been beyond my understanding.

If you have "escaped" somebody like this, run run run run run and don't look back

Really interesting thread. Having read through and some articles on Google I'm trying to work out if my ex was just using me as a rebound, going through a mid-life crisis or might be on the narcissism spectrum. Here is some of her behaviours from the relationship:

Jan - April I never felt so loved and was showered with affection and attention. I'd never felt that kind of love from a woman before.
Then in May/June before she ended it she became quite distant and felt like her feelings changed overnight. We had a short 3 week break before I got back in touch and told her that I loved her which led to us getting back together for a month.
After I did get back in touch she told me she was seeing someone new within around 5 messages.
I then discovered she was texting other guys, one from her past and others who had given her numbers on nights out. She used the excuse that she was a very needy person, this despite a couple of weeks earlier told me how independent she was.
After confronting her on the texting she showed me her phone text messages and said something along the lines of no men text her, I knew at the time all the messaging was done in whatsapp which she didn't show me... was this a form of gaslighting?
She wouldn't just text the guys when I wasn't around but even did it when we were in each others company, i.e. leaning forward when on the sofa so I couldn't see who she was texting and on nights out when I went to the toilet or bar. There were no boundaries despite me calling her up on it time and time again.
When I asked if something had changed she blamed me for her feelings changing because I blocked her during our 3 week break for a few days.
Despite telling her I loved her she and knowing she didn't feel the same continued to string me along for 6 weeks and using me until, and I'm guessing here, had decided to move onto someone else, most likely one of the guys she was texting.
I now feel that I was the one constantly saying sorry to her for being insecure when it was her texting others and being inappropriate.

Sorry for taking the thread off course a bit. Just found it really interesting.

I also agree that they’ll never change . Happily divorced from a narcissist . He is with someone else now - far less educated than him so he’s put on a pedestal and her family think she’s gone up in the world. I still have to communicate with him as we have a DS . The bullying and spite that I still get via email (after 4 yrs of being apart) is so damaging . My parents wish I would take him to court for it but I tell them I would never win as he genuinely believes he is right and I deserve everything he sends my way. It’s emotionally and mentally crippling but I’m just glad that I’m out of the relationship .

@manicbutfunctioning

He can't reveal himself to his new partner can he? Thus, he takes all his shit out on you because you're the easy target and the last "supply". It's so awful dealing with these evil individuals when you have children. I am trying to employ the "grey rock" method with mine. It is SO crippling, it really is. You have all my sympathy.

Many people may portray narcissistic traits- but you can't diagnose narcissism unless you are a professional- and by the nature of someone who is I doubt they'd ever agree to a diagnosis. Also many people may have the traits but not actually be a narcissist. Lots of people have some narcissistic traits. If she is agreeing with him, doesn't question him, and does nothing to annoy him, then he will believe he's better. It's juts more likely that she is more compliant- or at least is at the moment. Doesn't mean that issue won't happen later.

No. I tried.
Just no.

No.

Absolutely not.

Because they don't need to change.

They haven't done anything wrong

Speaking from vast experience.

I wonder what the percentage of population have NPD? Seems to be a signifcant number.

What is the cause? Nurture or nature?

Ex had an abusive childhood as his mother was very angry & aggressive. Until I witnessed her anger I had never seen anyone react like that before. Her childhood appeared reasonable so not sure if genetic.

To change you need insight and willingness to take responsibility..neither of those traits exist in someone with NPD.

Rich, from your description it doesn't sound as if your ex had NPD, seems she moved on but kept her options open. Not nice behaviour but not toxic enough for NPD.
Her willingness to describe herself as needy doesn't fit either.
Sometimes people behave unkindy and take advantage.

I left Ex (due to the abuse) and as result caused an NPD injury so the backlash has been awful, truly vicious and he is out to destroy me.If you are leaving plan it first and prepare for high conflict, don't assume mediation will work. I naively assumed he would want to let me go but he had not secured another supply so I am taking the full force of his rage.

He’s not a better person for moving in with new woman.
It’s a tactic to make you feel bad.
It’s blaming.

OP, your ex saying to you "he's a better person with her" is pretty narcissistic in itself. It may not be true, but he knows it gets at you.

Be warned - they actually get worse with age, more stubborn, entrenched and fixed in their ways

Spot on and following on from a conversation I had with a Psychiatrist last week I now know Im not imagining it and they are more inclined to mental health problems the older they get.

Not really.

As others have said, he hasn't become a better person with his new partner: he's just managing to fool her (hopefully temporarily).

As others have said, he hasn't become a better person with his new partner: he's just managing to fool her (hopefully temporarily)

Spot on.

No.

My exP was a narcissist through and through. He never believed he was in the wrong so he wouldn't change because why would he if, to him, he wasn't at fault?

When I left him and told him the reasons he did beg me for another chance saying he would try anything to sort himself out etc... And then I found out the girl he'd been seeing left him for the exact same reasons I did so his acting like he understood what I was saying was clearly a load of crap!

No, Narcissists won't change. & years can be wasted thinking, wondering analysing why someone is an utter bastard. When that's just who they are, end of story. & they'll get on with their life (maybe popping back to devaste a few exes, family,whatever), they won't be sitting still. The best focus is on good things and people, in this 1 short life that we have.

@TheFormidableMrsC

Yes this is what I'm confused about
So they manage to find someone new but how long can they keep the facade with the new woman? Won't the ow eventually see the narcissistic behaviours and that put them off

Be warned - they actually get worse with age, more stubborn, entrenched and fixed in their way

Yes this is what got me too.

Yes I believe so

Yes this is what I'm confused about
So they manage to find someone new but how long can they keep the facade with the new woman? Won't the ow eventually see the narcissistic behaviours and that put them off

They dont chose equals to go through life with. They generally chose someone who to all intents and purposes is their victim but the victim doesnt actually know they're a victim because of the mind games these people play. I'll also go as far as to say that if you're in a good place mentally and emotionally these people will generally run a mile at the first sight of you. They need to be able to look at you and see their false self staring right back at them and if they cant do that they know - there's no fooling this one so Im off. And thats quite often what happens in these relationships the 'victim' has an emotional/mental growth spurt of their own and start to realise things are far from right so they get out of the situation theyre in.

On/off with the guy for 15 years
The only way I found out he was a narcissist? Because for years I actually thought his behaviour was normal and even just likened to his star sign

A friend of a friend screenshotted me dozens of text the other woman he was seeing when we were off (the longest woman hes been with apart from me in his life)
The messages were shocking - she said he shouted at her. Put her down constantly, got her pregnant on purpose to get me jealous then just left her when she had a miscarriage, as soon as she pointed out his behaviour, he went mad and never spoke to her again.

I couldn't believe it all this time I thought he was happy with her. He used to make out to me he didn't argue with her like we did , he used to say she wasn't selfish like me etc and I honestly believed it was all my fault. That's the moment I knew when this other woman had described all the behaviours I had to endure for years ,

Also the CBT therapist told me she thought he possessed narcissistic behaviours form everything I was telling her

Now there's another woman again after getting back together and not sure if she will see his true colours or not he just seems happier with her????

As an ex therapist in training, we were taught that narcissists were very difficult, if not impossible at times, to treat, the main reason being that there is no way to form a bond with them, which is the basis for any kind of transformation. The sad thing is that even if they want to change, the nature of how they are means the facade is a formidable one to penetrate, and there is little sense of self underneath. They understandably don't get much sympathy, and I feel for them,while maintaining my distance.

So a narc thinks that everything they do is right and above question. If they do anything wrong, it is always someone else’s doing.

So of course he is going to blame any bad behaviour on you. You made me behave bad. Now I’m with someone else I am a better person. You should feel bad about yourself because you made me behave bad.

At no point am I responsible for my own behaviour!

Stop obsessing. He is her problem now. Don’t believe anything that comes out of his mouth because it will be nonsense and most likely untrue. You can’t understand narc. Your brain doesn’t work that way. So don’t bother trying.

Educate yourself and work on not falling for one again.

People with these tendencies don't need what they are telling you to be true, only that it has the desired effect on the subject.

What the actual relationship was like with the other woman is irrelevant - it's what he wants you to think that counts.

I imagine most get better at the deception rather than getting better as people.

Thx for the videos. Really interesting