CAN A NARCISSIST CHANGE?

[Isabella26xx]

Please answer honestly
Not judgemental etc

Can a person who has narcissist behaviour change or improve even? Can a life event help?

A narcissist who has toxic/abusive tendencies... I'm still not sure if there is a difference between all these or are they just in one category

Thanks

@Isabella26xx

Good morning. What narcissists need is a fresh "supply", somebody who believes all their self serving nonsense, puts them on a pedestal etc etc. However, they will keep hoovering you back in, even if it's abusive, because as I said above, they are not in a position where they can risk revealing their true selves. Of course, eventually (you hope), that person escapes and they move onto the next...but it is a vicious and never ending cycle.

In my situation, this has been very difficult to deal with because ex left for a fellow narc. I have never come across anybody quite like her. Her behaviour has been utterly mind blowing. Together they validate eachother so of course nothing is ever their fault, however disgusting their behaviour, it is ALWAYS my fault. They are totally unable to take any responsibility. They have no problem with telling the most outrageous lies, creating false scenarios that suit their narrative and I have had several years in court with these two over finances and most recently, DS. My MH has been wrecked by them.

My advice to you is to go absolutely no contact if you can, wipe him out of your life, absolutely refuse to engage in any way whatsoever and thank your lucky stars he is no longer your problem.

Also be aware they become a lot worse under stress esp if they consider your the one putting them under it!! My divorce has been 18 months long and hes as rude and abusive as always. You really have to find your own self worth or he will just take it all!! My ex shit in my boots last week (x 2) this is the first time he has done anything criminal but he has constantly harassed and undermined me. Im also still in the family home where his office is placed at the back he knows hes not to come but its clear he still finds it hard which just makes him even angrier. Its never ending and totally mentally exhausting esp when you have children.

'Every day you go out I hope it rains '!!

My ex shit in my boots last week (x 2)??? Are you being serious? He actually shit in both boots?

@Allalittlebitshit2019

What?!? Are you being serious? Can you explain about the boots wtf

Yes unfortunately its true. He shit in two boots but not from the same pare. So hes ruined two pairs of my boots (if that makes sense!) This is after 18 months of separation, his behaviour is as bad as ever!!

How did he gain access to your shoes?

I have a porch at the front of my house its always left unlocked (house is locked by another door). Needless to say it will be locked all the time now!!
Hes angry with me atm, as hes apparently separated from his partner, i have asked for his new address as hes due to have the children for an extended amount of time. He refused to give his new address and said he would turn up and take them regardless. So i went out with the children, he obviously knocked realised i was out and decided to take shit in my boots while stood in the porch!! Hes very very odd anyway so not totally surprised by this! Hes also angry as child maintenance have court up with him as hes not been paying the correct amount!!
He would rather not see his children and shit in my boots then just give me his address, typical behaviour from him unfortunately!

Jesus Christ what a twat!!! You must have put up with some shit (sorry!) if this doesn't surprise you. People should come with warnings.

I am not even surprised by the shitting in boot thing. Literally nothing surprises me. Mine cut off my car insurance in the middle of the night and then waited for me to drive in the morning so he could ring the police. Because he'd threatened to do it previously, I checked every single day before I got in the car with our 2 year old and my own DD. He couldn't have cared less that the children were affected. When he left, crying, sobbing, pleading desperate unhappiness and the need for "cuddles and kisses and a new life" (we had a toddler with undiagnosed autism who NEVER slept), I found shortly after that he'd sacked me from our business without notice or pay, cut off all utilities, mobile phones, even my DD's, the burglar alarm contract, the list was endless. His response to me when I questioned him in utter horror? "I don't know what you're upset about, I don't need those things anymore". He even came and removed our garden lighting for OW's garden so they could have big family Christmas marquee (a few weeks after he left) and asked for all our Christmas lights as he didn't "think" I'd be in the "mood" for Christmas. Utter fucking cunt. Excuse my language, but it still stings like hell, even five years on.

That is spiteful. 😱

@TheFormidableMrsC Cunt is the right word for him, no apologies needed. How can he be cruel with his own kids, I don't get it.

I suppose I should count myself lucky, I just had the early stages of dating which came with mindfuckery. He's seeing someone else now, appears to be into her and a tiny part of me is thinking why didn't you make that effort with me. Why is she special but I also know that's all part of it.

Not unless they suffer a brain injury that changes their personality.

Highly unlikely and only with a v skilled psychotherapist that they are willing to engage with and even then the probability is low and will take a long time

Low self awareness, low empathy, fragile self esteem...
Paranoia....high blame....

My abusive F was a narc. I've only seen it in the last few years. He was so controlling, especially where money was concerned, he hated anyone disagreeing with him and he was paranoid. He always thought my DM was being unfaithful to him; he refused to allow her to go to a work conference away one weekend when we were small, saying that he knew what went on during those weekends away. (Apparently a woman's adultery was worse than a man's adultery and he was certainly not faithful to her, possibly SA towards his DDs didn't count??)

He took no notice of how she felt, made us all go to Saudi Arabia when I was three, DM hated it, as she had 3 children of 5 and under and had no freedom. More trivial but typical of him, he got himself a dog that she was adamant she didn't want, and of course she did all the work looking after the said dog.

I always thought he mellowed as his health deteriorated (he had Parkinson's Disease), but looking back it didn't, he just found other ways to manipulate us all. DM showed me some of his letters to her when she was away for a couple of months working in Africa. They were so full of emotional blackmail that it was sickening. (He was very well cared for.)

He was similarly emotionally abusive towards DSis and me.

At the end, when he was very ill in hospital, I remember willing him to die so that we would be free. This screwed me up afterwards as I was crippled with guilt, but looking back it did set us free. My DM has since managed to get a PhD in her 70s and spends 3 months every winter in Africa. She and my F worked there in their early years, as missionaries and she always wanted to go back to it.

My DM is controlling towards us, too, but more in a codependent way; she always feels that she is the one who needs to make things better and when they go wrong it's somehow her fault. (Especially now that she knows about the SA.)

If you'd asked me a few years ago, I would have said yes, everyone can change, but I think that very few people do, and my F certainly didn't. I don't ever remember him admitting to being wrong, whereas my DM keeps blaming herself for everything.

@Lizzie48 [flower] Horrific. There are no words.

@userxx It defies belief doesn't it? If it hadn't been for MN at the time, and the huge support I received here, I would be dead, it is as simple as that. It was utter torture and I couldn't even touch on it here and wouldn't derail thread in that way.

I have recent experience of how they "can't" change. My ex-h was court ordered to do a very long course for, shall we say, "below par parents" involving CBT etc. It is a highly regarded programme with excellent results. Cafcass recommendation, he refused, so became court ordered. He has indeed "done" it. However, during the course, his behaviour showed that it simply didn't/couldn't work. I shan't go into details but involving false complaints to the police, OW writing letters to court, all the defame me and paint me as an abusive, antagonistic ex-wife/parent. I know what's happened...it was a means to an end...he has lied about how he's ended up in his position, he has no capacity to tell the truth. He has rewritten history. Unfortunately, we had the final hearing before he completed it. So, no comeback on him at all. The only one who suffers is our autistic DS (limited contact thankfully). I simply cannot have contact with him unless it's absolutely necessary. He "appears" to want to co-parent but because of narc OW, that is impossible. I could go on and on. The thought of dealing with this for the next decade just increases my anxiety and damages my MH. Does he give a shit? Does he fuck. These people need to be exterminated for the damage they cause.

@JustlikeDevon
Not only can he not change, but he's such an utter twat I wish him nothing other than spontaneous combustion.

Along with EXH and DP's narc ex.

@The FormidableMrsC
Your description of your exh's behaviour over the parenting course is like a carbon copy of the shit that my DP has been subjected to by his ex. She projects every single thing she does on to him; there have been numerous complaints to the police, she's tried to drop me in the shit with an anonymous letter (which didn't work, thankfully). She will stop at nothing to defame him - and me. You have my sympathies xx

I think the you have to ask yourself why you want them to change. I'm speaking for myself here to, that persons treated you so badly but you still want to give them a chance. I think this shows how much power over you they still have. I felt like that at one stage but tbh I don't care if he changes or not now he's not good enough for me!

I want Ex to change so that he will be able to co parent. I don't feel safe with him so can't share space such as parent evenings, graduations, weddings etc. I just want him to be a better person as its heart breaking for the dc tp realise how their Dad is.

I believe they do get worse as they age.

life I agree. It’s heartbreaking.

Absolutely they can change - with willing and support.

@lifebegins50

I feel exactly the same as you. I do feel it is absolutely fruitless though. So I've given up. Why on earth I have spent the last five years trying to co-parent with somebody who wishes I was dead is beyond me. I am not doing it anymore. I am not sure he likes it. I don't give a fuck. It's not worth it, it really isnt.

@picklepost Sorry, no. Please do expand....I've done willing and support til I am blue in the face...15 years of it. So if you can tell me something different you either have a miracle cure or you don't know what a narc is.....

I think pickle meant willingness to change on the part of the narcissist MrsC. Sorry you have had 15 years of such heartbreaking labour

TheFormidableMrsC

Your situation sounds so much like mine also. My ex, even after being apart for 10 years, is still as vile as he was about me.
His new wife is also completely twisted, as she's accused me of harassing her by constantly making abusive phone calls and so many other things I'm apparently 'doing to make her life unbearable' (can't say what or I could out myself).
Her and my ex write disgusting things about me in court letters, and people have told me how they accuse me of doing so many abusive things to them

I don't even communicate with either of them FFS! Haven't don't for years!