Married to someone with Asperger's? Support group here!

[picklemepopcorn]

This thread is for partners seeking to understand the dynamics of their relationship with someone with ASD. It is a support thread, and a safe space to have a bit of a rant. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
(ASD partners welcome to lurk or pop in, but please don't argue with other posters and tell them they are wrong.)

Hello everyone. I pop in and off the thread, partly because sometimes it reminds me of aspects of my life that I'm trying to ignore.

I also saw the AIBU thread and it rang a lot if bells for me.

I had an amazing thing happen a couple of months ago. I knew that everybody around us (as a couple, not my friends who I keep separate) sees him as being this reliable, kind, steady, fair, hard working person and me as sometimes volatile, often unfair and unkind to him. Things like it looking like I'm snapping at him, but it's not that, it's me trying to get his attention because he's in a phase of not hearing me etc.

So, I told a mutual friend that he has Aspergers. I'd vowed not to but it sort of cake tumbling out. Later he (friend) came back to me and said he now understood some things because he'd noticed that sometimes when you talk to DH it's like he hasn't understood which is odd as he's intelligent, or has spaced out. I almost cried! Somebody saw!!! And this was the friend that actually said, when I told him we were going to divorce, "Yeah well, if you'd spoken to me the way you spoke to him sometimes, I'd leave you too."

I explained certain things that had happened when he was around over the years and I could see he started looking at me differently. Like I wasn't being horrible by moving away from DH ostentatiously tubbing my very pregnant belly at dinner with them, I was actually in shock because he'd not touched me once, the entire pregnancy!

To have someone see independently was utterly incredible! I am not crazy! Someone else noticed something, even if they didn't associate it with anything particular.

And it felt bittersweet because I felt sorry for DH too that aspects of his behaviour had been noticed. But that was tempered by the confirmation that he'd seen me as horrible at times I was literally dragging myself along the floor out of exhaustion and a self-esteem that had dissipated after years of not existing outside of being a carcass to DH.

But a question. I've written this a few times then deleted. I'm scared of the answers. I should say first I'm actively trying to find a child psychologist but it's hard where I live.

Aspie father, non-Aspie kids...

1. He can block them out completely: DC sitting 1m from him, repeating "Daddy" getting increasingly louder and DH has no response. He literally has blocked the world out. DC get very very angry eventually.

1. DH angry with DC. Pulls them by the arm. DC cry and say "You're hurting me!". His response: "No I'm not." (he truly believes he's not hurt them, because he didn't intend to, therefore he can't have..).

1. Denial of their reality in ANY conflict with them. Like point 2. If he doesn't have a problem with it, there's literally no problem. So DC asks him to get out of their room, he refuses. DC repeats it. He ignores (deliberately - not blocking out). It continues. DC gets increasingly upset but as DH doesn't believe he should be out of the room, he sees no reason why DC is upset, therefore they're wrong. There is no existence of the possibility that they have a right to something he doesn't think.

These things happen more when he's stressed at work and have me running around "neutralising". I agree with the DCs' reality (but if they've done something wrong I also say they were wrong to have done X), I agree when they say "It's like Daddy doesn't hear me when I'm standing right next to them" etc and I categorically say he was wrong to have pulled them.

And my heart breaks into a thousand pieces.

And I cannot up and leave because I won't have a visa yet to live here and this is all delayed more due to Brexit. I also think that it's good I'm still parenting next to him so that I can be there to try and undo what he's doing, albeit unintentionally. I've spoken to him about it and he'll say I need to get him parenting books blah blah which I've told him to google himself (years of me taking responsibility for his behaviour has now stopped). Of course, he doesn't. Or he tells me to tell him exactly what to say, and if I try, he takes it as a criticism. Which everything I say is anyway, so no more of that either.

Ive told him that there's a burden from his condition and if he doesn't take any of it on board it leaves it to us to take it all. He seems sad but does nothing.

I always knew there'd be problems when the kids were teenagers, but I never thought it would start at age 6. He gets into an argument with DS who is now 7 and is unable to get out of it. It's a Yes - No argument between two kids.

Over time he's made some changes, this situation is better than before, but how on earth have you done this if your kids are now older? How have you offset the inability to see emotions when he's dealing with people who are ruled by theirs - and should be at that age?

Somebody mentioned upthread about being newly into a relationship. I would never, ever have brought children into this situation if I'd had any idea of the pain they would go through and the pain it would cause me being unable to stop it (once the divorce happens, it'll just mean I'm fairly free of this, but they won't be and they won't have me right there either...).

@ChangerOfNameAspieThread

The guy I'm interested in a relationship with has a very difficult relationship with his father. His dad is very much routine driven OCD and Autistic with hoarding habits. What he says goes, no ifs or buts and no discussion. He loves and hates his dad in equal measure, he is also autistic but he and his dad are somehow very similar and very different at the same time. So they clash. It's damaged his relationship with his mum and I know his mum often feels like they have to choose between her son and her husband. And due to generational and religious factors, she shielded him as best she could and acted as a buffer of sorts but does expect him to go with it and accept that this is how things are and if you want an easy life then do as your told because there's less she is willing/able to do to protect him for it now he is an adult and able to take responsibility for his own actions.

It just makes me sad really. My dad was autistic like me and he did/said things that hurt in the heat of the moment but he was constantly working to do better and be better because he was the adult and should have known better, I was just a child and needed to learn.

I think right now your in the best place possible to protect your children. Perhaps couples counselling or parenting classes would benefit your husband. And if he refuses to engage in them or consider your children, once your visa is in place and secure, you and your children are better off leaving. Autism is not an excuse to be a crappy parent or partner and refusing to engage or listen because you cannot conceive of a world where you are in the wrong or take responsibility for your own overreactions and poor parenting is downright disgusting. Whenever I am overwhelmed with my nieces or nephews I make sure they're safe alert another family member then I go take a breather till I'm calm enough to manage them without accidentally hurting them. I often misjudge how much force is necessary when using my body and have taught myself never to touch anyone in anger as the risk of hurting someone is just to high. It doesn't matter that I wont mean to hurt them the chance is still there and that's not ok.

Anyone else's asd husband obsessed wirh being "right?"
I suspect mine has asd, but a real bug bear is this right/wrong business. He can not just accept that different people juat feel differently and there is no right and wrong. The language he uses:
"I disagree"
"You're right on this one"
"I think you're wrong"
"I think I'm right"
"I agree with X but Y is wrong"
"It is not reasonable to think..."
"It is reasonable to expect..."
"I don't think this is unreasonable..."
Such mechanical language... it drives me nuts!

Autistic people like to be right far more than the average person, were pedantic and stubborn and if I or my friend aren’t ‘right’ we’ll argue semantics and hypothetical situations so we can be right. For us to feel secure and like we’re in control we must be right all the time. And it’s a massive pain for everyone else and drives everyone around us up the wall. When A (or anyone else) has to be right n they’re clearly wrong I just say ‘yes dear’ and leave it. It’s not worth the argument most of the time. Can’t do anything about the mechanical language though. We’re often described as sounding like robots or that it’s as if we’ve swallowed a thesaurus when we speak.

Changerofnameaspiethread I totally hear you and can relate to all you said. Can i ask what made you decide to divorce and how did you weigh up the not being there to neutralise? I'm afraid i cant help with the older children part but can truly relate to your experience. At one low point DP was deliberately saying cruel and childish things to DD who was 2 at the time as she had annoyed him. He would tease her like another child would until she cried. it was absolutely horrid to watch.

My DP (undiagnosed as keeps 'forgetting' to make initial diagnosis appointment) is exactly the same about feedback. When I bring up some issues in his parenting he will say I should draw it to his attention each time and show him what to do differently. Then I do that and he gets in a defensive mood due to criticism. There's no winning.

I gave up taking responsibility for him (aside from intervening with parenting) about 6 months ago. He forgets stuff daily, messes things up and basically repeats the same mistakes over and over. They can be screaming in front of him and he carries on as if nothing is happening. I have to come in and pick them up. He then gets moody that I've intervened.

He takes DC out in mornings for a dog walk at park round the corner as off work for Xmas. DS (2) came back first day screaming with cold hands and feet (we're in scotland) and I said he needs warmer layers tomorrow and some tights and gloves. Next 4 days in a row same thing. I deliberately don't interfere and mother him any more. 5th day I lost the plot. DP says the issue isn't clothes it's that DS doesn't walk fast enough to keep warm. FFS.

I decided a year ago I want to split. But fear of him being alone with them with no neutralizing buffer has kept me here. I don't think I can carry on though and am planning to split in 2019. It affects my mental and physical health daily. My friends tell me I'm not the person I once was. I hope that without the relationship stress and with more sleep he will be better with them once he moves out.

I want to see if we can get a diagnosis first. I have some concerns about my DD (4) also being on the spectrum. I hope that if he gets a diagnosis we can get specialist help for his parenting and also for the kids in their relating to him and also if they are on the spectrum for themselves.

I feel incredible guilt over the whole thing. I'm being honest here and saying I wish I'd never met him as my kids are now stuck with him even if I minimise contact. I also feel guilty that my DD (and DS for all I know) may also have struggles. I occasionally have fantasies about running away and us never having to see him or his dysfunctional family ever again. It's Aspergers Central at their house. I can't actually believe I ignored so many red flags getting into this. I was desperate to have kids and pushing 40. I was so selfish I'll never forgive myself.

I'm hoping I won't be flamed for the above. I know and appreciate that it's so hard to be the person with Aspergers, I just don't have a lot of people to talk to who understand this and how difficult it can be doubting yourself daily and questioning your sanity.

ChangerOfNameAspieThread
I’ve had similar thoughts when the dcs were little. H had no idea of what was appropriate for their ages and I had to step up so many times because he was expecting them to do stupid things (such as going down a cliff/very steep slope holding on a rope that had been there for god knows how long. Dc2 was about 7yo. Or going for a day long ‘walk’ in winter, packed lunch included when they were about 3~4yo and then getting very angry that they were cry8ng due to cold and tiredness...)

I decided to stay and ‘help’ H aka teach him how to parent instead.

In some ways I am happy to have done so. Now that they are teenagers, H has managed to build some relationship with them around common hobby.
On the other side, I wish I had left a long time ago. Too much hurt on my side due to him being a twat (and taking sooo long to actually hear what I have been telling him. From how to be with the dcs to hurtful behaviour towards me etc...). And both dc have learnt very unhelpful behaviours (incl ds1 who is as NT as you can be)

So I would agree. Sort your visa out (or even better a citizenship if you can). That’s a priority. And then I would leave for your own sake. Don’t make yourself ill from trying to keep your plates aNd his plates spinning the way I have done.

WhatOnEarth Thanks. Couples counselling has been tried and is impossible. He simply doesn't have the self awareness to do it. The therapist would set some "homework" for him to do. He'd report back next time that he'd done it. It would appear like he'd done it every day for three weeks. There'd be long discussions between him and the therapist. In fact, he'd done it the night before the session! When the therapist would ask me how it was, I'd have to explain that actually, he may FEEL like he did it every day, but he basically only did it last night so he could report back that he had. That was, of course, seen as me being critical. He wouldn't change his lack of interaction (he saw any interaction as a waste of time - this was to save our marriage..) and vowed never to see another therapist again. So we didn't get anywhere. Parenting classes are difficult because we're not living in a country where either of us speak the language fluently, him far less than me, so even if they were available, they wouldn't be to him/us.

SparklyHorse my DH is asexual on top of Aspergers. It drove me into a bottomless pit of pain. When it got to a point that I was self-harming and truly ready to kill myself and that there was no book I'd not read, no website I hadn't tried nothing I'd not tried to fix about myself that he'd said was the cause of our problems, I knew I couldn't do anything else. I'd told him before that I'd wanted a divorce and he hadn't/wouldn't believed me. He just laughed and walked off. Sounds callous, but I think he simply couldn't comprehend it. I ended up telling him this time in a therapy session. The therapist helped him stay with his emotions and the repetition from a third party of what I was saying made it real to him. We're still living together and need to for 1-2 more years (it's been nearly 2 years since that meeting). It took him over a year -and me losing my shit- before he told his parents. The thing is, because I've had to spend years without him wanting to touch me at all, unless his friends were around, which wasn't often, it looked to everybody that we weren't a physically affectionate couple. So there is no difference really between pre 'break up' and post it. His mother stayed with us ten days after the break up and had no idea! People who know me from before, however, they know that I'm affectionate, but as we moved countries, they weren't around either.

I believe that although My DH is a good father on so many levels, he is dangerous when looking after the children for extended periods of time. He does not notice important cues such as illness. Once DD was seriously ill and collapsed, he refused to call an ambulance and said I was over-reacting. A good job I called them as she could have fallen into a deep coma or worse due to extremely low blood sugar levels.

For this reason, I believe I am trapped into staying with him until the children are old enough to contact me themselves when in his care.

QueenieIsLost I half-smiled there. Last year I had a raging argument with DH on the top of a hill that I knew very well from childhood because he wanted to take them (aged 4&6) down a very dangerous side of it. There are frequent accidents from -idiots- tourists doing that and there was no way I could let it happen. But he insisted. I won, but not without making myself look like a raging loony to the other people on the hill.

Which is something that really, really upsets me: he always looks reasonable and because he doesn't get angry easily, he very literally looks reasonable. But what he's saying or doing may very well not be and in order for me to get my point across, when he's not listening to me, I'll have to shout. I absolutely hate it, but there's no other way.

Sparkly I didn't answer about the not neutralising part. Firstly it was two years ago when I decided so I hadn't realised there'd be a problem! I thought it would arise only in teenage years! While I hate what Brexit has done to my life, I also try to hang onto the teeny silver lining which is that I've got the chance to reaffirm my children's sense of reality and to neutralise other aspects. Not that I'm perfect, but I will admit mistakes and I can sense when people are upset, so the damage I can do is less in that way at least.

Discussing this with a friend she told me about her close friend. This woman had a really horrible ex. She was running herself ragged trying to undo the damage he'd do to the kids when they were with him. In the end she realised that she couldn't undo it as such, she had to use it as a learning opportunity for her kids. They needed to learn how to deal with their father and that yes, he would let them down badly, but they would also know that she would always be there for them. So in a way she had to strengthen herself, rather than sweep up his mess. Her kids are older and I can see that in the future that's what I'm going to have to do. I'm starting to pave the way very slowly. When the kids say, "Daddy couldn't hear me and I was right next to him" I'll say I know, that that can happen sometimes with Daddy. I ask them how they're feeling and then see if they can think of a way to 'pierce' his bubble if he can't hear them. It doesn't matter so much what the answer is, but I'm trying to get them to think of other ways to interact. And it really pisses me off that my kids need to do that and that it has to be, yet again, me doing it, but I'm not sure what else I can do. They need to learn different ways of interacting with him that get the results they need as they grow.

Both children (5&7) have already essentially said that it's me they come to for emotional stuff, Daddy doesn't get it... I wish that at their age they didn't realise that just yet.

Queenie The common hobby thing is something I'm working on. DH is very sporty so I encourage them to spend sporting time together. I'm glad to hear that a few years on that shared interest can be something meaningful.

Sparkly I wanted to add that I know exactly what you mean. I feel like my life entered a pit that I would never, ever have chosen after I got married to DH. And I feel guilty for being able to get mostly out of it and the children not. I truly had no idea until I was pregnant with our second child that it was actually like this, although I still retained some hope it could change. Also, back to divorce. One of the things that was really the clear signal to end our relationship was that once he found out - and agreed - he very, very likely has Aspergers, it was put to him that he could now learn about how my brain worked too. I'd spent years trying to figure out how to get things to work, how his brain worked, so the only thing left was for him make some effort. He straight out said no! The therapist did a double take! He'd spent a good year in therapy saying he wanted things to be better, he was trying 110% (I knew he wasn't, but I couldn't prove it to the therapist) and then he straight out said it. Didn't I feel a fool for investing so much of myself after that... It still took me some months of falling further into self-hatred before I made the decision that I knew I'd never turn back from.

Jalapenohot mine is much more succinct. He just says No. To pretty much everything.

But he does use mechanical language. I think it works in an office setting (judging by his career progression), but in an intimate relationship (I don't mean sexual, just intimate - his sister doesn't feel able to open up to him due to this) it shuts the other person down.

And the bloody royal 'we' for things he expects me to do. In an office setting it could be ok. But "I'm not your secretary" is a well-worn phrase...

ChangerOfNameAspieThread I’m not so sure the sharing of a hobby is good in our case.
It has, of course, become one of his special interests. And as dc1 is really really keen on it, the effect gets compounded.
Basically nothing else happens at weekend bar the hobby. Since September, they’ve all been away every weekend (bar one or two weekends at home) and I’m left alone because I don’t or rather cannot do that hobby due to ME (brought by dealing with H - aka a mixture if very high stress and running myself down trying to do everything for everyone).

So it’s very bitter sweet. Great that he has some relationship with the dcs. But very sad I’m loosing the one I have with them because I hardly see them :(
Even worse when I end up been the one who ‘gets in the way’ because I dare say they should also think about me, what I want to do and spend time with me too. When I have been the one to engineer said hobby so they have some relationship.

Actually scrap the bitter sweet. I’m angry.

Haha the ‘we’....

I’ve always found that PA and patronising at the same time.

And the ‘delegating’ too (aka making me sort the stuff he doesn’t want to do or hasn’t thought about sorting out before it became an issue)

Changerofnameaspiethread thanks for your reply.

We tried couples counselling too. The counsellor was focussing on helping us to communicate better (and on helping DP learn better ways to listen and things to say). We went weekly. She would say tell me about a situation in the last week and then I'd say what happened and he'd say how he responded. And then she'd sort of coach him on what might have worked better. And he's practice and do it with her there and it would feel amazing and I'd think wow you can really do this and my heart would melt. Then we'd go home and it was back to same old. And rinse and repeat weekly. Eventually the counsellor had her head in her hands. Even when he wrote down what to do he didn't do it. We stopped going as he said we were ganging up on him and that was what was preventing him making progress. I can see how it felt like that too although until the last session where counsellor kind of have up we'd really been encouraging him.

Jalapenohot yes I worry about this a lot too. Last year when we were all away on holiday I became ill with stomach pains. He left me to it and eventually I called NHS 24. I could barely speak to them for pain and he didn't even take the phone to give them my details or anything just carried on making dinner. They sent an ambulance and when paramedics came he disappeared upstairs leaving me with kids. They decided to take me to hospital and when we were leaving the paramedics couldn't find him. He was upstairs putting laundry away.. I got a text in the hospital saying him and kids had had a good dinner and relaxing evening

I think on balance I have to separate and try to minimise him having long periods with the kids if I can. Little and often is definitely better for all concerned. I've gone through a breakdown, anti depressants and in last year so much comfort eating have put on 3 stone. I need to take control for myself. My family are NC with him and that also makes life difficult. Xmas day I took the kids to my family and he was at home alone and totally unperturbed. I'd have been so upset to be excluded.

changeofname yes yes to the trying everything. All the way through our 8 years together every time I've brought issues up its been him telling me that the reason they happen isn't him but either me or circumstances he can't do anything about. I used to believe this and when he would tell me that he couldn't communicate because of the way I phrased things or my tone or my timing or the location or the day of the week or any other number of things I believed it and turned myself inside out. Or he would tell me that when x or y thing happened then it would be different e.g. once the baby is born of COURSE I'll communicate differently. Once the baby is a toddler of COURSE I'll communicate better as they'll be like a real person. believed this stuff for about 5 years before I was able to see that nothing I ever did or any circumstance or happening ever actually changed any of it. I do think he a really believes these things when he says them and genuinely thinks very little of this is to do with him.

Jalapeñohot I sadly understand that. Nobody can be ill unless he deems the symptoms (which have to be visible to him) significant. If not, it's like your maladie is in your head, it simply doesn't exist, you're exaggerating or just making it up. Your pain ceases to exist because he can't see it. Which, when you're in pain he can't see, mean you cease to exist in certain respects. And that's it.

QueenieIsLost That is really sad. I can see the possibility here of what you say about being excluded - it's on the edge of my radar. I get stressed trying to make everything work and then at the end having him have a better relationship with them because I've killed myself facilitating it.

There is so little understanding of our (collective, spousal/partnered) experiences. It's so isolating. These threads are the best things I've come across. It's hard sometimes to read them but I find comfort in not being over sensitive, or completely unfair in my feelings. And this is after making the divorce decision. I wish it had been here before!

I was reading the description of kids trying to get attention and that’s my ex.

His language is - he talks to me like I’m an employee and always did

Hi everyone, so much of what you are all saying I can relate to. It's heart breaking and sad and it's only a few months ago that I realised there was nothing I could do to make him love me more, this is just how things are. And I feel like I am grieving. Grieving for spousal love and care I have never had and will never have.

@ChangerOfNameAspieThread

Which is something that really, really upsets me: healwayslooks reasonable and because he doesn't get angry easily, he very literally looks reasonable. But what he's saying or doing may very well not be and in order for me to get my point across, when he's not listening to me, I'll have to shout. I absolutelyhateit, but there's no other way.

This a hundred times over. You've put it so much more eloquently than I could express.

My DH also shows affection and concern when people are around and it really really annoys me. Suddenly he is like hey do you want some tea? Have you had something to eat etc. If he looks after me, it feels like a huge burden for him to do that, whereas when I'm ill my 6 year old wants to look after me and brings me medicine etc and cuddles me. And believes me. I do feel bevause of the way my DH acts when I'm ill, he doesn't believe me. And it's hard because I have a long term condition.

We also a huge problem with DH not doing anything to up his income and spends half his week relaxing at home whilst I am exhausted from work and having to juggle everything else.

He is a great father but can only manage it in 2 hour slots and then needs a break. But he wants to have lots more children but complains if he has to look after more DS for more than 7 hours in a row. I tell him how then how he will he manage with more children but he can't put the two together. In his head they are two totally seperate things.

My DH can't also read when I'm ill. I'll be in excruciating pain but he will still want to have sex. And get grumpy when I refuse. It's hard.

Also how are your DH's with kissing and touch?

DH will only show physical affection if he wants to have sex. If i show him any physical affection he thinks that's a signal for sex too.

He's also rubbish with kissing and non sexual touching. I don't know if most men are like that but it feels like rushed/forced and not affectionate but dutiful?

Well, since we've broken up, obviously nothing, but one of the main reasons for the breakup was that he was asexual. I read someone on here talking about masking a few months ago and realised that's exactly what happened with us/him. He knew that boyfriend/girlfriend should have sex, so we did. It was very mechanical, but I figured it would change as he became more comfortable, as he relaxed into things and knew that I wasn't going to dump him (he was afraid of that apparently and I had to pay for what his ex did to him - which he actually admitted at one point). After we got married, it disappeared. It was awful for me. Truly awful: I was newly married, so in love, so happy, and surrounded by older married couples making jokes about 'newlyweds'. He barely touched me. No sex for 8 months. Many discussions, all coming back to me not speaking to him in the correct way, not keeping the house tidy enough (we had a cleaner twice a week and no kids, it wasn't a mess or dirty!). Eventually I talked about children with him. He wanted children, so then we had sex once a month when I was ovulating. After the first child, no sex for 13 months. Then when we discussed another child sex happened again, but I got pregnant first time. Sex was over.

We got married and the mask came off. He felt he could relax into who he really is. I had no idea that a man wouldn't want sex, especially if he was fit and healthy and had just married me! It wasn't a forced or arranged marriage!!!

Physical intimacy like hugs, holding hands etc all disappeared alongside the sex. The whole lot vanished. If I asked for a hug I could get one, but I could also almost hear him counting the seconds until he was 'allowed' to let go.

No compliments either. Nothing about what a nice person I am (maybe I'm not, but then don't marry me, right?), nothing about how he found me attractive, nothing about how I looked nice wearing something. Occasionally something about I'd made a nice dessert or cake. That'd be it.

My intimate partners before him were much more physically loving. Obviously there were reasons why I didn't marry them though... But no, men are not all mechanical in physical intimacy.

This is getting full. I'll start another and link it over!

Thread 3 is here! www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3463341-Married-to-someone-with-Aspergers-Support-group-here-Thread-3?watched=1

Are there other threads besides thread 3 please?

I'm finding this link so useful. My ex recently broke up with me, in the midst of one of his depressive bouts. This is not the first time. He is undiagnosed but his son is diagnosed.

It breaks my heart to read all your stories. I'm left feeling very confused. I can see just how challenging it is for everyone but I feel like I've lost my best friend. His excuse for pushing me away was that it's not fair. It's not for on him either.

My partner was very giving sexually. He focussed on me and my pleasure. It took a while until he accepted that his pleasure was as important to me. My sexual drive was higher than his but I was ok with this and never put pressure on him. I didn't find him mechanical and the last few times, we definitely made love, which I never thought would happen. Is this possible for others?

I also had a relationship with a man who had ASD. He was insatiable. His sex drive was through the roof. However, I would definitely say it was mechanical.