UNMARRIED -NO RIGHTS!!!

[Oncewasneedy]

Just wondering what MN readers would think about a campaign for the rights of unmarried women/mums!! (Long one-sorry)
I am so tired of hearing about women on here getting the crap end of the stick purely because they weren't married! And also because they don't understand that being unmarried leaves you with no rights over anything!
I was one of those women!
I met my partner when I was 16 and he was 30. It was all good for a long time and when he proposed to me I didn't even look back! The very next day he said he wanted a long engagement! I was not happy about this!! But when I also began to have my own thoughts about things he didn't like it!
However in the time we were together we had 4 children! I would have had more as he wanted but his behaviour got more unforgivable with each birth! (Think narcissistic and your there)
We also went through many problems with losing parents to our family business going to pot! We fought hard to get our livelihood back and thank god we did it!
But despite everything it wasn't enough! I could go on and on about how selfish he was and how I thought I would die of sadness and loneliness being with him but it doesn't serve anyone! I begged him to try but in the end I couldn't take anymore and I left!
After 20 years together I had to leave!
I had to leave the home I had raised my children in, where they took their first steps, where I bathed them and had their birthday parties and Christmas!
I had to leave because I had no rights to the home- all in his name!
After 20 years- I meant no more to him than hired help!
Thank god I took a part time job when the youngest started school otherwise I would have been clueless!
Clearly this is a rant and a half but do other married women think that unmarried women should get legal protection in some form! I know that some women will flame me for being so naive and an idiot but when you meet someone at the age of 16 it twists your mind somewhat!
Im still trying to get my head around it all! So I'm sorry if I still sound angry!!!

"The OP fell halfway into that construct- uneducated, unable to support herself"

Where does op say she was either of those two things?

@BoxsetsAndPopcorn
What an inflammatory and ignorant post! This forum is littered with similar 'contributions' from you and i don't really understand what your motive is but you seen quite keen to upset and offend people.

"Surely it's better to teach that than to say get married and all will be fine."

But if a straw man argument there.

No-one is saying that. They are pointing out that when it doesn't go fine, the legal commitments of marriage tend to give a better material outcome for those who have reduced their earning power and long-term prospects for the sake of a family unit that no longer exists ;when compared to those with no such agreements).

The important message is not 'you must do it in any one particular way' but rather 'please make sure you understand the differences, so you decide what will suit you best from a well-informed position'

Religion sorted this out years ago. You didn't have sex, they had to commit to you. You got married before all the other stuff. Unless women insist on marriage and protect themselves they leave themselves and their children vulnerable. I see an acquaintance she has given up her job to support her partner in his jet setting career, move in with him and be an unpaid slave to his two younger daughters from a previous marriage. He has made it clear he won't marry, she has nothing to protect her legally. A woman should set a time limit for a man to come up with commitment, let's face it if he truly loves you, he would.

The important message is not 'you must do it in any one particular way' but rather 'please make sure you understand the differences, so you decide what will suit you best from a well-informed position
This.
Make whatever choice you want to but be informed, take responsibility and prepare for the conseuqneces of your choices.

We need to teach girls two things - firstly that without a legal commitment there is no protection.

Also that it’s aocially acceptable to not provide for your children when you split up. Very few with sympathise if your ex doesn’t pay maintenance, mostly they’ll tell you you’re lucky if you get anything. And the government agency set up to help is complicit in its shitness.

Also that it’s aocially acceptable to not provide for your children

Surely both sexes should be taught this, children have two parents and being female doesn't absolve a person of their financial responsibilities.

What we actually need to be teaching our children is that not supporting children is outrageous and that as adults with free will, we should not, under any circumstances, make excuses for those who choose not to support their children. That includes refusing to be in relationships with such individuals.

If we did that, maybe there would be less of it about.

I don't think it is fair to say ALL age gap relationships are wrong. It depends on the two people involved. For some women, who meet a man of 30 when they are 16 and get married when they are 18 or 19, it could have a happy ending
Nah, any grown man or woman who looks to a 16 yr old for a relationship has issues. It is NOT healthy and it is NOT ok. Sure, a 16 yr old could be happy but that happiness in a 16yr olds frame of reference really isn't reflective of anything. Of course, the 30 yr old, with a pliable, uneducated teen, would be happy!

I haven't read the whole thread, but I don't really agree with the idea that unmarried couples should get the legal protections married couples do.
Getting married is basically saying that you're a team, and whatever decisions made while married are agreed upon.
If you're not married then who's to say your DP agreed you should give up work, there are so many other options and possibilities.
I'm sorry about what you went through OP, but think making sure young women know they don't have legal protection outside of marriage is a better idea.

Hey everybody, I'm back and sorry it's taken so long- family get together and I was the designated taxi.
I just need to say In defence of my Mum that yes I came from a "broken home" but my Mum was the best! My Dad was a complete flake who I have no respect for now whatsoever. In regards to my ex, I think my Mum just wanted the best for me and he seemed like such a gentleman when we first met. He seemed to have it all. My whole family fell for him.
Hey Maisy, thank you for your comments. I was very flattered as I'd expected to be battered on here. Just a little bruised so far. It's been an experience!
Hey Graphista, we all do the best we can. We're human not superhuman and quite frankly our imperfections are what make us.
To yellowskyblue I understand that some people are creeped out by the age difference but I have got to say that it never felt that way. I was always an old head on young shoulders as I've been told many times before and my partner was like a big kid- we kind of met in the middle of you get me!

And to Norma it felt very normal at the time but I do get that it's not normal to a lot of people. And your right- it isn't easy to leave, no matter what the circumstances.

Filling in a few gaps here which may lead into rant mode- my apologies in advance.
My ex has a very successful business now since we redeveloped everything. Yes we. I was a SAHM For many years- I worked the hardest I had ever worked in those years with my kids. I worked right up until my first was born, helped out with the family business and began "working" again as soon as the youngest was in full time education. I have never expected a free ride. However I do expect that my contribution to the family home should be validated. Quite frankly my being a housewife entailed a hell of a lot more stress than working outside the home. Toddlers are the worst bosses of all time. Not to mention how other women- yes other women seem to look down on us housewives. We get lumbered with every task going because not only does your partner think you have nothing to do all day but your entire family too. My job at that time did not come with a job title other than housewife. The job description is quite effin endless. I hate that people assume I did nothing. I clearly didn't start out a career woman but right now I'm working towards one. But I will never put down another woman for being a SAHM.
My ex,s business can be dodgy, the couple of mill I'm talking about is mostly invested in property and almost all on paperwork for the most part but there is a whole lot cash in hand. He earns tens of thousands a month and even though I know he's screwing HMRC I can't say a single word because quite frankly he would end up in prison. I just wouldn't do that to my kids. If I were a vengeful person I could do some real damage but I'll not!
In my thoughts over this issue regarding more people being aware of this issue, I truly believe that it's a real issue that needs more attention and awareness. But on the same level Stay at home parents should be recognised for what they do. Just because you don't have a fancy title and a business card does not mean you don't work.

We have a Deed of Trust drawn up for the house as we aren't married surely there is a legal document you can have drawn up that extends to other assets?

Hi oncewasneedy, I am sorry but I am now a bit more creeped out and shaken than I was before. Its the grown adult /child dynamics that worries me not the age gap. I will admit I am no expert in the field of sexual predation, but I make it my business to educate myself to better protect my children. " My partner was like a big kid" this is a sign to watch out for too and can be how children and parents are groomed/charmed. "I was always an old head on young shoulders" because intelligent children can be more of target. Ultimately I was not there, I do know what happened and I am not making any accusations. These are just some of the signs that I am learning to watch out for. Some googling will provide you easily with some more indepth studies.

My Dad was a complete flake who I have no respect for now whatsoever.

So was mine. That's what made me ensure a man couldn't ever do it to me.

Your whole family fell for a man twice your age, who let you put yourself in a vulnerable position?

A 16 year old, with an old head on their shoulders, is still not as mature or worldly wise as a 30 year old. Shown by the fact that you want along with a situation that benefited him and left you vulnerable.

A 30 year old, going after a 16 year old is never ok in my opinion.

My ex has a very successful business now since we redeveloped everything. Yes we. I was a SAHM For many years- I worked the hardest I had ever worked in those years with my kids. I worked right up until my first was born, helped out with the family business and began "working" again as soon as the youngest was in full time education. I have never expected a free ride.

So you were a major player in the business and never demanded that your name was anything, you aren't a part owner/ director or anything?

Quite frankly my being a housewife entailed a hell of a lot more stress than working outside the home. Toddlers are the worst bosses of all time. Not to mention how other women- yes other women seem to look down on us housewives

Look down on other women, like you have just done? With the 'working in the home is harder than working outside the home'.

Stay at home parents often are recognised. In divorce. If you dont invite the law into your relationship, that's up to you. But you can't expect the law to step in and make things even for you.

Your situation is shit. You have my sympathy. However, it's a result of choices that you made and/or chose to go along with. The end result should not be that everyone else, should have the law forced into their relationship.

We need to teach girls two things - firstly that without a legal commitment there is no protection.

We really, really need to make sure that people understand how marriage works, to protect tbe financially weaker party, especially when they have given up a job/career in order to work inside the home. More usually women, but that is not material to how it works.

I agree with yellow old head on young shoulders says to me you were in a position to be exploited beyond your years not that you had the ability to make adult decisions. The big kid comment also suggests he was manipulating his own behaviour to adjust to your age. Sorry but no man chooses such a young partner because they think she is their equal.

Can I ask why you had four children when you had absolutely no security? I can understand falling into the trap of one or two but did you not feel vulnerable going further? I'm not trying to be goady but to understand your thinking.

*Sorry I meant do not know what happened.

Thatsfuckingshit has it spot on.

Stay at home parents often are recognised. In divorce. If you dont invite the law into your relationship, that's up to you. But you can't expect the law to step in and make things even for you.

Your situation is shit. You have my sympathy. However, it's a result of choices that you made and/or chose to go along with. The end result should not be that everyone else, should have the law forced into their relationship.

OP You have my sympathy. But 'i stayed at home and it was bloody difficult and more difficult than going to work doesn't equal 'remove other people's choices because I don't like the consequences of my actions'.

At the end of the day, you were quite happy going along with it and could have left.
You CHOSE to remain in this relationship without marriage and chose to keep having children.
Equally, on the subject of the law, you were quite happy ignoring the law when your DP has millions of pounds worth of assets and is paying himself thousands from cash in hand work.
You have had no issue defrauding the tax office for years.

But now the law doesn't give you a share of it all (because you opted not to have the legal cover of marriage), now you want the law to step in.

We really, really need to make sure thatpeopleunderstand how marriage works, to protect tbe financially weaker party, especially when they have given up a job/career in order to work inside the home.
I agree. The thing is men seem to have got this memo. Women with assets seem to have got this memo. The only people I've met who don't seem to have got this are women who don't have assets or careers so are all too happy to leave work and stay home with children (not judging the choice!). That's what seems sad to me.

I don't support a change in the law to give unmarried partners divorce type rights as many women also earn a lot more than men and want to protect themselves and their children on a split too. the solution in the case above was to refuse to stay at home with the children and force the boyfriend to find childcare or stay home himself surely? That way none of these problems would have arisen.

Also if you helped him build up a business then you don't do one stroke of work until you ahve a directorship and 50% of the shares and a written employment contract and are on the books. If the business is not a limited company then you ensure before you do any work at all in this joint enterprise that your name is on the deeds with the partner as joint owner of those properties., Those are the protections needed. Basically as ever the answer comes down to getting some legal advice from a solicitor and not doing a single thing form having sex to moving in to working in a famloy business until every piece of paper is signed. If he refusesx all of that hten sunny Jim can find some other victim to slog it out in his business for no pay whilst you go off founding your own business whilst he rushes to the nursery eveyr morning with the babies before he goes off to work.

If you genuinely did work in the business check if he promised you shares as you might have some kind of breach of oral contract claim against him. Also check if you were an employee and are entitled to some back wages. A solicitor can help with these things.

And my advice to all women is never give up full time work even when babies come and refuse to live with a sexist man who might require that.

working in the home is harder than working outside the home

Really?? Parenting and keeping a house as an adult is harder than working? Am sure any number of professions would highly disagree. On that basis, those parents that manage to parent, have a home and work must be super men and women. Except they are not, they are just adults doing what adults do.

Like anothe poster said you were happy to take the benefits of not working and benefitting from his " business" and only now are moaning that it's left you with nothing and want the law changing. You are an adult, nobody made you have numerous children, nobody made you stay home etc they were all choices you made. It's a role model many see and repeat and why many women end up in the same position.

Agree with Maisy and Xenia. You can't choose to remain outside the system because it benefits you (blind eye to tax dodging) then be outraged when the system doesn't step in to help you when circumstances change? Just no.

@BoxsetsAndPopcorn do you have children? You always come on to threads to bitch about SAHMs and those on benefits. Do you have children and had to work ft so you're jealous of those who actually make sacrifices to stay at home to look after their own children? Or are you childless and therefore clueless?
I'm currently a single SAHM but going back to work as a specialist nurse in the autumn. Working will be a lot easier than being at home 24/7. If you've never been a SAHM then I don't think you can comment. Or are you a man? There's certainly a lot of bitterness and anger towards SAHMs in everything you post to suggest you are a misogynist.

@BoxsetsAndPopcorn do you have children? You always come on to threads to bitch about SAHMs and those on benefits. Do you have children and had to work ft so you're jealous of those who actually make sacrifices to stay at home to look after their own children? Or are you childless and therefore clueless?
I'm currently a single SAHM but going back to work as a specialist nurse in the autumn. Working will be a lot easier than being at home 24/7. If you've never been a SAHM then I don't think you can comment. Or are you a man? There's certainly a lot of bitterness and anger towards SAHMs in everything you post to suggest you are a misogynist.

Yes have children and work, it's perfectly possible to do both . I'm also very happy with my choice, I love my family, my home and my job. My children see both sexes working, parenting and doing whatever is needed in the home and will hopefully aim for the same in their relationships.

Staying at home with no job, no deadlines, no boss, no financial responsibility to provide as either a man or the state is is a doddle compared to most jobs. The only exception would be a high needs child with complex issues.

It's laughable sometimes the justification for not working, makimg out it's far harder than actually having a job. I'd imagine a teacher, police officer, surgeon etc wouldn't say there job was a doddle compared to being unemployed.