UNMARRIED -NO RIGHTS!!!

[Oncewasneedy]

Just wondering what MN readers would think about a campaign for the rights of unmarried women/mums!! (Long one-sorry)
I am so tired of hearing about women on here getting the crap end of the stick purely because they weren't married! And also because they don't understand that being unmarried leaves you with no rights over anything!
I was one of those women!
I met my partner when I was 16 and he was 30. It was all good for a long time and when he proposed to me I didn't even look back! The very next day he said he wanted a long engagement! I was not happy about this!! But when I also began to have my own thoughts about things he didn't like it!
However in the time we were together we had 4 children! I would have had more as he wanted but his behaviour got more unforgivable with each birth! (Think narcissistic and your there)
We also went through many problems with losing parents to our family business going to pot! We fought hard to get our livelihood back and thank god we did it!
But despite everything it wasn't enough! I could go on and on about how selfish he was and how I thought I would die of sadness and loneliness being with him but it doesn't serve anyone! I begged him to try but in the end I couldn't take anymore and I left!
After 20 years together I had to leave!
I had to leave the home I had raised my children in, where they took their first steps, where I bathed them and had their birthday parties and Christmas!
I had to leave because I had no rights to the home- all in his name!
After 20 years- I meant no more to him than hired help!
Thank god I took a part time job when the youngest started school otherwise I would have been clueless!
Clearly this is a rant and a half but do other married women think that unmarried women should get legal protection in some form! I know that some women will flame me for being so naive and an idiot but when you meet someone at the age of 16 it twists your mind somewhat!
Im still trying to get my head around it all! So I'm sorry if I still sound angry!!!

Every single person I have spoken to is so certain that I should have had some rights under that "common law marriage thing"

Well the people you speak to are living under the same rock because no friends or people I know think that.

This has been in the media time, after time, after time. I don't know how ANYONE hasn't got the message.

I mean where have you and they been for the last 20 years?

My ex completely blindsided me in terms of his behaviour as soon as we split (I booted him for cheating).

What being married couldn't do was make him be a decent father post split. He's been completely unreliable on contact from the beginning and hasn't at this point seen dd for several years.

He also emptied the joint bank account and took the family car without telling me he was going to.

This was remedied later when the details of the divorce were being sorted but it was more I was shocked he could do that to dd and I. She was 2 at the time.

I said to a friend I didn't even recognise him any more, she replied 'that's why they call it estrangement'. I honestly feel like I was completely deceived.

But I'm still glad we were married as I did get a settlement and it made certain things much easier than if we hadn't been married.

At the grand old age of 46 I've now seen various friends and relatives go through separation/divorce, one party becoming disabled/critically ill, one party dying and seen there are so many awful ramifications if a couple aren't married. I feel very strongly that people should be more informed.

I'm sorry you had a tough time but I don't think the solution is for the system to change. People who sign up for marriage are involved in a contract which is witnessed. If you move in with somebody you aren't signing any agreements re your relationship. I've seen countless threads on MN with posters insisting they don't need a piece of paper. Well it is nice to be trusting but it's naïve. Why do so many men these days wriggle out of getting married. Because they want to leave their options open and don't want a financial bill if they divorce. Women need to wake up. No marriage no children. And I see some younger women are saying that.

Hi Queen
I have already admitted I was naive and stupid. In hindsight I do think it was a lack of experience relationship wise. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Unfortunately when things are going well and everyone is happy you tend not to question things. I'm not a complete sap though and after seeing a friend go through the same thing while we still good in my eyes- I asked him if he would put my name on the deeds to the house! He looked at me like I'd asked for his blood! He didn't speak to me for nearly a week and apparently I was just the same as every other fucker! I told him my reasons in a normal rational way but I was still just after his money. I think he knew he had the upper hand financially and wasn't going to let that change.

And to Graphista I'm so sorry for what you and your daughter have been through. I know about missing Dads -( yep daddy issues- who knew). My God I'm so text book aren't I.

However she sounds like she's a lucky girl to have you on her side.
I know that a lot of you MN posters are really strong independent women who probably shudder at the thought of us weak ass females letting the side down. I wish I was as strong as I am now back then, but I'm one of those people who tries to see the good in people and understand there point of view, it doesn't mean I'm weak, I just take a bit more time. Experience is everything in life.
And a saying I heard this week,
"You don't know anyone until you break up with them" Too true!

Hi Vivienne
At least if your hearing about young women saying just this than hopefully they are clued up and won't repeat mine and many other women's mistakes. Like I said the law thing would probably be a nightmare but so much more awareness is needed.

I know that a lot of you MN posters are really strong independent women who probably shudder at the thought of us weak ass females letting the side down
Not at all.
Women who make mistakes, realise and learn from them like you OK are strong women. It hurts like hell but You're stronger when you get through it.

The only time people will tend to be a bit is when people don't learn from their mistakes or think the world should cater around their mistakes and lack of forethought. You do not fall into that category at all OP. In fact, more people who seek advice could do well to look and learn from you on this thread. You've had some blunt advice and it's caused quite a heated discussion but you've been brilliant.

I could be the best mum in the world (I'm so not!) doesn't make up for lack of dad. But thanks anyway.

Strength usually comes out of shitty experience I've found. If I'd had a more normal childhood and not had that relatives experiences in my mind I could have ended up a cohabiting non-spouse with my ex screwing me right over.

I hope I've got through to dd not to be vulnerable.

Hello oncewasneedy, I am so proud of you leaving him. The age gap you mentioned is a massive Red flag. He is a pederast. Grown adults do not find children sexually attractive. Hold your head high. This is not just about stupidity and naivety. He is an example of a sexual predator. I am sure he was manipulating and emotionally abusing you from the start. It so just so hard to recognise when you are in it. Can you sue him for abuse? Does he provide for children still? Please carry on with educating others about marriage rights but also abusive relationships.

Sorry for typos. I also meant healthy grown adults.

The age gap you mentioned is a massive Red flag. He is a pederast. Grown adults do not find children sexually attractive.

I think this is an appalling conclusion to make. A woman of 16 is not a 'child' ( although legally they are a minor.)Marriage at 16 is legal, with parental' consent.

The age gap of 14 years is not the issue. When I was 21 I met a man 14 years older (35) and we had a long relationship . I was the more life experienced as it happened. We split in the end due to his lack of relationship experience which caused issues.

You can't make sweeping statements about age gaps and call men paedos just because they are with younger women. The OP was 20 when she had her first child and he'd be 34. That is quite acceptable.
It's HIM as a person who was the reason for her unhappiness, nit her age and you are patronising her to say 'There there. you were just 16 love, you were incapable of knowing what you were doing.'

I think it's an education thing. I live with my partner with kids and not married. I'm in a very strong position as it's my house, I have my own money, pension and savings. I was aware from a young working age that it is my responsibility to look after my future and not rely on anyone to do it for me as things go wrong.

The legal adult age in England, and most of the world, is 18.

The NSPCC defines a child as anyone who has not yet reached their 18th birthday.

The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child defines a child as someone below the age of 18.

OP was of an age where she was legally allowed to have sex, and marry with parental consent, but she was not yet an adult.

I suspect that a 30yo entering into a relationship with a 16yo is not interested in intellectual discussion, common interests or a meeting of minds.

Queen
And nobody has called him a paedo.

Odd to leap to the defence of a grown 30 plus man starting a relationship with a 16 year old. Ewwww. Acceptable?! Not in my eyes or that if any other right thinking adult.

Being 21 is miles away from being 16. And a 30 year old choosing to have a relationship with a 16 year old is dodgy as fuck. Inherently.

Maybe if pre nups were recognised legally as they are in other countries more would be open to marriage. The one with the most stands to lose and obviously they want to protect their house, salary etc so I can see why many never get married. It's too risky.

I don't buy that a SAHP enables the other to work and provides superior childcare. That's just an attempt at justification as to why they don't work and contribute.

If we teach girls and boys to aim high, work hard and ensure they they have the means to fund themselves independently then it doesn't matter if there is a marriage or not. Surely it's better to teach that than to say get married and all will be fine.

In some ways, the government perpetuates the "common law" myth...Take Universal Credit for example. It gets paid as a "household" income and whilst I find this deeply disagreeable as it could easily serve to perpetuate financial abuse - it is treating couples as if they were married. Giving them in essence, a joint income. If we want a society where marriage is the sole legal protection for couples, the only indicator of pooled/shared assets then there has to be more done to maintain the separation of finances for unmarried couples - so the woman with a child who gave up her paid employment for the benefit of the family, with a man who refuses to marry her has access to money in her OWN right to allow her to make decisions for herself. So many times we here of women being unable to leave because of finances... I despise UC for many other reasons too, but this one is I think amongst the most damaging, especially for women who are usually the ones adversely affected by such a situation (not to say men arent financially abused)

Havnt read all the posts but refering to original post op then you can have rights if unmarried but you need to arrange them yourself. I'm buying a house and living with my partner , everything is going through a solicitor with a legal agreement of entitlement. You could have done this with your partner when you lived together or had children but chose not to.
The UK has no common law rights, but you can protect yourself legally and should do, for your children if not for yourself.

"If we teach girls and boys to aim high, work hard and ensure they they have the means to fund themselves independently then it doesn't matter if there is a marriage or not."

There would still be disparity in assets in most divorces.

You could have two people working full time and achieving well in their career, but one inherits, wins the lottery, is given a huge unexpected promotion, flies through the ranks through luck/being in the right place at the right time, has a more generous company pension scheme.

On the other hand, you could have one person suffering from long term illness, suffering repeated redundancies, going part time to look after a disabled child or sick parent, shares in their portfolio plummeting.

The marriage contract ensures that all marital assets - taken into the marriage, acquired during the marriage - is divided equitably so that both leave it with similar prospects.

Like a business partnership, the contract ensures equity.

I also want to add that not everyone is aware they have a choice. Those of us with education, life experience, jobs.. know that there are options and choices - however painful they may be. Over the last five years my work has brought me into contact with far too many women who DONT know, who have never known another way exists. Having numerous children, some just 42 weeks after a previous one because "If i dont have sex with him he will go somewhere else and I'd not be able to look after my kids" the 'he' in question, not liking condoms. The woman whose mother AND grandmother stayed in incredibly violent relationships, never being allowed to work, and not having any level of education (leaving school early to care for younger siblings as mum was depressed) walking straight into a relationship with someone who promised much and delivered nothing but a slap upside her head. No money or assets of her own and at 16 no opportunity to have gained any These are not unique situations - they just don't talk about it on an internet forum because they aren't aware they have any other options. It is not as simple as "walk away if he wont marry you" for them

Norma, it's far from perfect but what's the alternative to paying benefits based on household income? Nobody would support a system whereby a woman claims benefits because her Etsy-based craft business makes peanuts while her millionaire husband buys a third Ferrari.

@RainySeptember. I agree and I dont know the answer. Some kind of removal of the benefit system? A single payment to everyone of a living allowance thats removed once your income reaches a relatively low threshold based on tax?Can be topped up due to disability or sickness? There would be less fraud for sure, less money needed to administer,no waiting times of 8 weeks = less food bank use, no stigma of benefits. It's massively utopian I admit but there has to be a better way.

I wouldn't suggest someone is a paedophille for being attracted to a developmentally normal 16 year old girl but the maturity gap is huge. Most decent parents would be doing all they could to run a man like this off so the 16 year old has a chance to grow up and get some life experience before settling down and starting a family.

Most decent parents would be doing all they could to run a man like this off so the 16 year old has a chance to grow up and get some life experience before settling down and starting a family.

I agree with this 100% BUT it's only relatively recently ( in history) that women have tended to marry their men their own age. In the past it was very common for women to seek out an older, wealthier and more experienced man as a husband. The difference was they married them. Obviously with the emancipation of women , being a woman in 2018 is very different from 1818 or 1918, but in those eras women often sought out men who were established in their careers, in order to benefit from their assets.

The difference with that and the OP is that in the past people would marry because illigitimacy was stigmatised and divorce was rare. Yes, women would exist in unhappy marriages, as they had no choice, but few if they were married would end up homeless.

The OP fell halfway into that construct- uneducated, unable to support herself, but lived with a man, which provided no security.

I don't think it is fair to say ALL age gap relationships are wrong. It depends on the two people involved. For some women, who meet a man of 30 when they are 16 and get married when they are 18 or 19, it could have a happy ending. (A classic example of where it didn't go right was Charles and Diana- same age gap, married at just 20... but that was doomed for all kinds of reasons.)

You can't judge marriages in the past by today's standards. I'm guessing that the man needed to be earning a living and the woman just needed to be able to bear children so naturally men tended to be older. I also imagine at that age the girl would be guided by her parents when choosing a husband to try and ensure she didn't get stuck with a loser.

It's sad that people who don't have parents who at least try to advise or try to intervene when their child could be about to make a life ruining mistake are at such a disadvantage.