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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Was I unreasonable or is he a dick (and potentially controlling/creepy)

123 replies

usernamefromhell · 28/07/2018 16:50

Wonder what you all make of this scenario: for background I've been separated three years and have dated a bit but a bit out of the game. I'm a single mum and have very little reliable childcare, so getting out to meet people for dates is quite often a pain in the arse and has to be properly planned.

Started messaging someone I met online -- he seemed nice, we seemed to get on. We made a plan for me to go out to where he lives. I live in London and where he lives is fairly rural and a bit out of the way although not miles from London. But remote enough that I couldn't have pulled a sharp exit after a certain time of night if I suddenly wanted to.

On the day I was supposed to go to his I confirmed that I was on my way. He had previously said I could stay over and he would make sure I could have his bed (implication being that he wouldn't be in it unless I wanted him to). But when I left to meet him I messaged to say "just so you know, I think I'm going to go home tonight."

He took great umbrage, said he'd gone out of his way to make sure I felt comfortable with the sleeping arrangements etc and had arranged for him to stay with a friend and let me stay in his place (although he hadn't mentioned this to me before), had cooked a lovely meal, etc etc. I said sorry but I wasn't comfortable with staying over, I would come for dinner but go home. He said fine, don't bother and guilted me about the fact that he'd gone to lots of trouble etc.

I went home but messaged him to say I was happy to come over this weekend but a little earlier, allowing me to spend more time there but still leaving me the option of coming home if I wasn't feeling it/wasn't comfortable staying. He said fine and we left it as a plan to be firmed up in due course. I messaged him twice this week to ask if we were still on and there has been radio silence. I know he's got my messages and hasn't blocked me. It's possible he's had some emergency but it appears much more likely he's either ghosted me or is trying to make a point.

Leaving me to conclude one of the following scenarios:

a) that he had planned to get his leg over all along but had an elaborate subterfuge to make it appear this was not the case and once I'd made it clear he couldn't count on this happening he has lost interest and/or found a better offer. In which case I dodged a bullet.

b) that he's really controlling and is trying to punish me for "letting him down", which is a red flag. In which case I also dodged a bullet.

c) (the generous interpretation) that he's genuinely upset and I have been insensitive or messed him around. In which case I deserve it.

Based on his over-reaction and the way it has unfolded I'm leaning towards a or b but curious to know whether I've just become so hardened and self-protective that I'm being unfair and need to loosen up a bit. I have difficulty trusting people and sometimes think my compass is a bit wonky.

Any thoughts?

OP posts:
PineappleLava · 29/07/2018 10:56

Hey Op - I know this isn’t the dating thread. But what sites are you on. If you’re meeting idiots it might be you need to change sites. I’m currently on Hinge and there seems to be a slightly better quality on there than some others im previously been on.....

PineappleLava · 29/07/2018 10:57
  • I’ve previously
Mouseville65 · 29/07/2018 10:58

I met my DP on OLD (technically) - we used the same gym but didn't meet there until we had spoken on OLD, anyway our first date was an hour in the pub and second date at my house .... all the posters knocking you for arranging to go to his house, answer this ... since when can you tell someone is a psycho or rapist just by meeting in a public place???

People have been married for 20+ years and suddenly learn their DH is a rapist, murderer, pedophile!

Ok so we take precautions but seriously this is 2018 were people Meet on old for instant hook ups, meet In clubs drunk and go home with strangers ... the majority arnt raped and butchered.

I think you need to stop kicking the woman when she's down.

usernamefromhell · 29/07/2018 11:14

mouseville thank you. I don't want to diminish the safety issue because it is real and people are right to pull me up on it, no minimising from me.

For me its more that I felt that some people were jumping to conclusions and assuming that because I'd had a lapse of judgement in this situation I must be desperate or have no sense of self-preservation. It's not that simple.

OP posts:
Mouseville65 · 29/07/2018 11:58

@usernamefromhell I think sometimes people post without actually thinking, before I post I always ask myself 'would I say this to their face and will this help the op' - if no, I don't post.

I'm glad that some of the posters who genuinely wanted to help have made a difference and you will be more precautions on the future but please don't feel bad about your decisions, at the end of the day you went with your gut and didn't stop over even when he tried to manipulate you x

another20 · 29/07/2018 12:01

OP - my issue is that you followed-up a man who treated you appallingly - that was the real, factual, boundary / red flag that you didn't see.

That is where I would concentrate my efforts - why do you think you are worthy of such shabby treatment? and then would pursue a relationship with a total stranger who treated you badly?

SendintheArdwolves · 29/07/2018 12:43

all the posters knocking you for arranging to go to his house, answer this ... since when can you tell someone is a psycho or rapist just by meeting in a public place???

There is no 100% accurate way to tell if someone is going to try to hurt you/turn out to be dangerous. So since you can never be CERTAIN, does that mean you should take no steps at all to at least minimise the risk?

Having your first meeting in a public place is not a 100% guaranteed way of weeding out assholes and rapists. But it does give you a chance to assess this stranger and see how you feel about him. You are giving yourself more information before heading to an isolated location with him.

Again, we're talking about weighing up the risks and rewards or a particular course of action - do I consider the risk (strange man may turn out to be dangerous to me) worth the reward (strange man may turn out to be lovely to me) and how might I lessen the first one without compromising the second one?

For example, I have a "rule" which I say to all OLD - that I always meet for a maximum of two drinks for the first date. That way, no one is stuck in a boring date, expectations are set in advance, great for both of us, etc. In reality, if the date is going well, I say "forget the rule, I just say that in case you turned out to be boring. Let's have shots and go for pizza". But a fair number of times I have been very grateful for the rule, as it has allowed me to cut my losses on dates which were clearly going nowhere (eg: dude picks his nose and wipes it on his salmon-coloured chinos) without having to feel guilty/concoct a lie on the spot about why I'm going to leave. And it has also given me info about the guys who get annoyed that I won't spend longer with them, or try to negotiate with the rule. It shows me they don't respect my boundaries - useful to have that info BEFORE I'm at their house, I reckon.

Coolhotsummer · 29/07/2018 13:38

It’s not just about sussing out if he is a potential psycho (unlikely but possible.) What if op had simply not liked him but had already arranged to stay at his home and couldn’t leave?

I have done online dating over the years and most have not progressed to even a second date so would hate to be in a situation where I was stuck with someone I was not remotely attracted to in their home overnight.

Cupoteap · 29/07/2018 13:57

@usernamefromhell certainly didn't call you stupid. Good luck

usernamefromhell · 29/07/2018 15:03

another20 that's a reasonable question. In retrospect its clear that he behaved badly but because at the time he made me feel like I'd let him down I supposed I felt the onus was on me to make the next move. I therefore thought I needed to be the one to follow through on the plan.

It wasn't clear to me at that point that he'd treated me that shabbily -- mainly because he'd done a good job of pretending to be offended etc. In retrospect that would have been the point to have realised he was being unreasonable and its a good thing for me to think about.

For the record, though, I wasn't "pursuing a relationship" with him. I was honouring what I thought was a commitment to a first date which he had made me think I had screwed up.

Whether or not he was "owed" that date in the light of his behaviour is the question. Looking back, and with the benefit of this thread, I can see he clearly wasn't but my judgement was a bit clouded.

OP posts:
usernamefromhell · 29/07/2018 15:04

cupoftea thanks and sorry if I over reacted. Was feeling a bit sensitive this morning :(

OP posts:
SandyY2K · 29/07/2018 15:06

Remember that people are reading your first post and commenting. They won't have read the whole thread first...so you're getting views on what several individuals think.

It's different if the same poster keeps banging on about it.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/safer-internet-day-7-dating-tips-from-an-expert-valentines-day-apps-a6862846.html

AngelsSins · 29/07/2018 15:38

I don't know: I get the safety first thing but I think the idea that all men are potential rapists and you should never go to someone's home is slightly overplayed. The vast vast majority of men are not going to jump you just because you're in their house. Not least because they want to have sex with you so are going to be on their best behaviour

Most dogs wouldn’t bite your baby, but would you leave your baby alone with a random dog?

It doesn’t take every man being a rapist to make this situation risky, it just takes the one man you’re talking to, to be one. And then what if it did happen? Seeing as so few rapes are prosecuted, how do you think this case would go down?

She willingly goes to this mans house, has a few drinks, sleeps in his bed.....

rinabean · 29/07/2018 15:42

It's not about being married, women who are married and not are telling you it was really dangerous to have agreed to this and really good that you ended up not going. Nobody's saying they don't want some bastard to rape you or even kill you because they don't want you to be happy, or whatever you were thinking when you said that. I know you're upset, I would be too, this was all scary, it's not nice when you realise how close to danger you were. Especially if the source of the danger was being really nice to you up until you realised. But the women who've said it was worrying that you agreed to his plan in the first place are totally right. Please don't do that again.

Maybe some assertiveness stuff would help. You absolutely didn't owe him anything, you didn't have anything to honour. I'm not sure how to get better at spotting when people are pretending to be offended apart from experience though. Maybe if you're more assertive then it doesn't bother you in the first place because you see it as their problem and not yours, I struggle with being assertive too so I'm not sure.

Cupoteap · 29/07/2018 16:01

@usernamefromhell no probs, ps I'm divorced Wink

another20 · 29/07/2018 16:16

OP - you bent over backwards for the first date - you find it really hard to get a babysitter - you go well out of your way to travel all the way to his - then EN ROUTE he gets nasty and blows you out - what part of that is not shabby / treating you appalling?

If you find that hard to see - then ask is he being kind, polite and respectful - if the answer is no - then it is shabby. First date he should be on 110% best behaviour. I worry that he made you feel you owed him something rather than making you feel/see that he is rude, unpleasant and unreasonable.

usernamefromhell · 29/07/2018 17:34

another20 fair point: I never thought of myself as a people pleaser but I can see that would have been the point to extricate myself from the situation.

I suppose because he made it feel like I owed him my initial reaction was to assume he was genuinely hurt and disappointed, instead of assuming he was a dick who was trying it on and trying to guilt me into something I didn't feel comfortable with.

In retrospect I'm quite shocked at my reaction as it seems very clear now that this wasn't the right way to behave. Lesson learned.

OP posts:
usernamefromhell · 29/07/2018 17:37

rinabean the thing is in general in my day to day life I am fairly assertive and I don't usually have a problem with pushing back if someone is taking the mickey.

I just seem to have had this black spot here. He clearly felt entitled in this case and his entitlement left me questioning my own judgement and assuming I was in the wrong.

OP posts:
MargoLovebutter · 30/07/2018 10:03

usernamefromhell you should join the online dating thread in the relationships section. Lots of really good advice there and support from others who are actually online dating.

It is never going to be a good idea to meet a complete stranger in their own home. The fact that the man suggested or agreed to it, suggests that his judgement is slightly off and that fact that he then took offence when you said you wouldn't stay the night is a MASSIVE red flag in my opinion.

Please have a look at some of the online dating safety guides and information. Online dating can be fun and a great way to meet people, so ignore those telling you not to do it, but make sure you have some clear boundaries in place beforehand as to what is acceptable to you, what you are looking for on a first date - for most people it is just a drink or coffee to see if there is any connection or chemistry in real life.

Zaphodsotherhead · 30/07/2018 11:37

That's how they work user. They know which buttons to press to MAKE you feel that it's your fault, that you have massively inconvenienced them and it's your job to put it right.

You weren't stupid, you were just being played by a guy who's done this before and got his desired result. He knew exactly what he was doing and how to get you to feel embarrassed and obliged to him. You're fine.

StrangeLookingParasite · 30/07/2018 13:24

dude picks his nose and wipes it on his salmon-coloured chinos

Oh beurk - who does that? On a first date when you're normally trying to show off your best side?

chestylarue52 · 31/07/2018 13:17

I find it’s always a good idea to throw a little inconvenience or change of plan into a first date just to see the reaction.

Ask them to meet you somewhere slightly different from planned
Be ten minutes late
Change the day of the date

I often do these things if I’m not 100% sold on the guy or if he’s a total stranger.

Gruach · 31/07/2018 13:35

Sorry, but ...

You have a child young enough to need childcare - and you took such a risk with your own life? (And not an occupation risk like mountaineering, or an inescapable risk like driving to work ...)

Bloody hell.

Why would any decent man encourage a woman he hasn’t met to travel to his rural house to stay the night? That’s not a date!

I truly hope this thread is based on a fiction.

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