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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Was I unreasonable or is he a dick (and potentially controlling/creepy)

123 replies

usernamefromhell · 28/07/2018 16:50

Wonder what you all make of this scenario: for background I've been separated three years and have dated a bit but a bit out of the game. I'm a single mum and have very little reliable childcare, so getting out to meet people for dates is quite often a pain in the arse and has to be properly planned.

Started messaging someone I met online -- he seemed nice, we seemed to get on. We made a plan for me to go out to where he lives. I live in London and where he lives is fairly rural and a bit out of the way although not miles from London. But remote enough that I couldn't have pulled a sharp exit after a certain time of night if I suddenly wanted to.

On the day I was supposed to go to his I confirmed that I was on my way. He had previously said I could stay over and he would make sure I could have his bed (implication being that he wouldn't be in it unless I wanted him to). But when I left to meet him I messaged to say "just so you know, I think I'm going to go home tonight."

He took great umbrage, said he'd gone out of his way to make sure I felt comfortable with the sleeping arrangements etc and had arranged for him to stay with a friend and let me stay in his place (although he hadn't mentioned this to me before), had cooked a lovely meal, etc etc. I said sorry but I wasn't comfortable with staying over, I would come for dinner but go home. He said fine, don't bother and guilted me about the fact that he'd gone to lots of trouble etc.

I went home but messaged him to say I was happy to come over this weekend but a little earlier, allowing me to spend more time there but still leaving me the option of coming home if I wasn't feeling it/wasn't comfortable staying. He said fine and we left it as a plan to be firmed up in due course. I messaged him twice this week to ask if we were still on and there has been radio silence. I know he's got my messages and hasn't blocked me. It's possible he's had some emergency but it appears much more likely he's either ghosted me or is trying to make a point.

Leaving me to conclude one of the following scenarios:

a) that he had planned to get his leg over all along but had an elaborate subterfuge to make it appear this was not the case and once I'd made it clear he couldn't count on this happening he has lost interest and/or found a better offer. In which case I dodged a bullet.

b) that he's really controlling and is trying to punish me for "letting him down", which is a red flag. In which case I also dodged a bullet.

c) (the generous interpretation) that he's genuinely upset and I have been insensitive or messed him around. In which case I deserve it.

Based on his over-reaction and the way it has unfolded I'm leaning towards a or b but curious to know whether I've just become so hardened and self-protective that I'm being unfair and need to loosen up a bit. I have difficulty trusting people and sometimes think my compass is a bit wonky.

Any thoughts?

OP posts:
usernamefromhell · 28/07/2018 17:22

AnyFucker fair enough, taken on the chin. :)

OP posts:
HelenUrth · 28/07/2018 17:23

So this guy was "apparently" going to leave a stranger alone in his house?!

Also, in scenario 3, the grown up thing to do is explain, if he is upset, what is bothering him and take your reply on board. Not leave you wondering what you might have done.

Dodged a bullet. No doubt.

AnyFucker · 28/07/2018 17:24

You don't need a bloke that much < chucks op under chin >

usernamefromhell · 28/07/2018 17:27

AnyFucker no, I really don't need a bloke -- I'm genuinely happy living on my own with my DD. Just every now and then I think it would be nice to try dating someone and am generally stunned by the amount of creeps and fuckwits there are on OD.

OP posts:
peekyboo · 28/07/2018 17:27

I can't blame him for thinking you were going to sleep with him. Why else would any sane person stay over in a rural location with no escape plan at the house of a complete stranger after a few online messages?

peekyboo · 28/07/2018 17:28

And the amount of creeps and fuckwits increase exponentially if you seem happy to stay over at their house as a first date.

usernamefromhell · 28/07/2018 17:29

peekyboo well, in fairness, I didn't. But I suppose he concluded from the fact that I was willing to go up there that I was up for it.

That pisses me off in itself though. But that's another story.

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 28/07/2018 17:30

Oh yeah, totally agree he should not assume you were up for it. But he did. And they do.

SendintheArdwolves · 28/07/2018 17:34

The vast vast majority of men are not going to jump you just because you're in their house. Not least because they want to have sex with you so are going to be on their best behaviour

Look, I agree with you - I don't think all men are rapists. But a worryingly high proportion of men are apparently totally fine with coercive sexual behaviour Link to study that says 31.7% of men would force a woman into sex as long as there would be no consequences

This study was focusing on men who would use force to get sex, but there is a whole spectrum of coercive behaviours that even 'nice' guys would employ to, as they would see it, persuade a woman into sex. These range from guilt tripping/obligation (which this guy is already trying to use) to using pity or social obligation ("You led me on") to subtle threats that let the women know that they could turn nasty if they don't get what they want - basically the "sex is going to happen, and you'd better just go along with it and tell yourself afterwards that it was fine and you consented" approach to rape.

You think that the man wanting sex is somehow going to make him behave nicely towards you - it is no guarantee. This dude seems just the type to wait until you'd gone to bed then come into your room and get into bed with you.

In short, life is a risk, and you have to weigh up ones you are comfortable with and ones you aren't. I online date and there is no way in hell that I would agree to a first date in someone's house with the expectatioin of an overnight stay. It's a risk I consider to be too great, especially when I have nothing to lose by choosing differently - if I meet my date in a public place from which I can get away easily, and then i decide I actually do want to go back to one of our places, I can totally do that.

Starlighter · 28/07/2018 17:38

I would never arrange to meet at a stranger’s house! Never, ever! It’s just not worth the risk, no matter where it is, urban or rural!

Please block this man. Red flags all over the place. And meet the next one somewhere neutral next time in a public place.

VioletCharlotte · 28/07/2018 17:39

I was genuinely horrified reading this. You were seriously planning to go to the hour of, and possibly spend the night, with a man you've never met, just talked to online? What's wrong with you? Why on earth would you not meet at a mutually convenient coffee shop/ bar for a first date?

ainsisoisje · 28/07/2018 17:39

You’ve dodged a bullet by the sound it

Tawdrylocalbrouhaha · 28/07/2018 17:39

Never agree to a first date at the house of a man you have never met, let alone agreeing that you will sleep over.

Once a potential date has revealed that he is an arsehole, do not suggest further dates. That is just crazy.

He assumed you were going to have sex with him immediately, and has no interest communicating with you if this is not the case.

usernamefromhell · 28/07/2018 17:40

SendintheArdwolves yep, you're right. I can be a bit blasé about this sort of thing sometimes. Not because I'm an idiot but because I'm a firm believer that rape is wrongly framed as something which is inflicted on women by strangers in darkened alleyways when in fact that overwhelming majority of rapes are committed by someone known to the woman. I have dated tons of men and maybe I'm being over-confident but I'm pretty sure I have the radar to know if someone is iffy. But I think my radar probably failed me here and I need to have a word with myself.

But also OD has so many grey areas you can get to a false sense of intimacy and trust based on messages I've learned this and am fairly tough with myself about this. But you're right, its never worth taking the risk.

OP posts:
blacksax · 28/07/2018 17:45

A genuine bloke would understand if you don't want to stay in their house overnight on a first date, and would be fine about it (if a tad disappointed).
He hasn't been fine about it, has he?
Dump and block.

ALongHardWinter · 28/07/2018 17:46

3 things occurred to me here.

  1. It is highly in advisable to go on a first date to someone's house,even your own,for obvious reasons.
  2. I can't understand why you contacted him again when he as so rude to you for saying you weren't staying overnight.
  3. Do you really,honestly believe he had no intention of trying to sleep with you? And that he had really arranged to stay elsewhere overnight,leaving you to have his place to himself? Highly unlikely IMO.
titchy · 28/07/2018 17:47

overwhelming majority of rapes are committed by someone known to the woman.

And if he'd raped you, you'd be one of those raped by someone they knew.....

What would you advise your dd once she's old enough to date - 'Meet somewhere neutral where other people are around and work out a get-out plan', or 'Meet at his house and stay over. Don't worry about needing an exit.'

BMW6 · 28/07/2018 17:50

Christ Almighty OP, don't EVER think about doing this again.

MaggieMuggins · 28/07/2018 17:51

A friend of mine once went on a first date to someone's house. We live in a large northern city and he was in the next county in a rural location. She had the most amazing time and ended up staying the whole weekend, the dirty stop out.

BUT before even embarking on her little venture she made a lot of contingency plans. She spend time talking to him on the phone, made arrangements to phone me several times during the evening, provided me with his address and landline so I could ring the police if there was radio silence.

BUT more important than all that, he made her feel absolutely comfortable with the whole situation, such as her having an exit plan - early enough so she could get the train back, reassurance that she did not need to stay more than 5 minutes if she was in any way uncomfortable, and basically acted like a proper man should. She went over a few times and they had a lovely fling but ultimately the distance was too far and they parted company very agreeably.

So I don't think the principle of going there is necessarily wrong but if you are going to do something like this the man needs to allow the woman complete control and his reaction to your caution was a total red flag.

LML83 · 28/07/2018 17:53

Really weird. Any genuine person could see why you wouldn't be comfortable staying and want options of leaving. Massive red flag.

Understand online dating but make sure you are safe, always meet somewhere neutral.

Jaxhog · 28/07/2018 17:59

Ten foot and barge pole spring to mind. You don't go to someone's remote house on a first date! You certainly don't agree to stay over before you've even had the date!

Meet somewhere neutral (and busy) to see if you like him in person first. Be suspicious if he won't do that.

SendintheArdwolves · 28/07/2018 17:59

In fact that overwhelming majority of rapes are committed by someone known to the woman

This is absolutely correct. But since you know this, I'm even more baffled that you would consider going to the house of someone you have never met with the expectation of staying the night, and trusting that you would know in time if he was "iffy" and then be able to get away. And then say that he would be "on his best behaviour" in the hope of getting sex, so therefore the danger is minimal.

I don't want to pile on you, and you seem to be taking this all incredibly well, and you seem sorted and self aware and switched on.
And you are allowed to take risks. But do a proper risk assessment - what is the reward I am hoping for vs what is the potential downside.

Coolhotsummer · 28/07/2018 18:00

It’s not just the potential rapist risk. What if you got there and you just did not like him/he wasn’t your type?

And I definitely do not agree with the vast vast majority of men are not going to jump you just because you are in their house.. I think most men would at least try their luck in that situation.

I spoke online to one guy for a couple of weeks and when I cancelled a first date due to not having childcare, he invited himself to my home knowing my child would be in bed and put a lot of pressure on me to go along with it. Not being nasty but very subtle, ‘I don’t mind at all coming to yours, I can’t wait to see you...’ etc making it sound casual and friendly yet potentially very risky.

another20 · 28/07/2018 18:01

Why oh why would you follow up with someone who behaved appallingly?

What have your past relationships been like?

The taking a risk thing with going to his home was one thing - it was actually just that "a risk" --- but the following up with someone who has treated you badly - a fact and action - WHY?

PeakPants · 28/07/2018 18:04

when in fact that overwhelming majority of rapes are committed by someone known to the woman

Yup, like someone she has been on a date with... Do you not realise you are hugely contradicting yourself? This is precisely the sort of high-risk situation where rapes ARE likely to occur. On the other hand, you're relatively unlikely to be dragged into the bushes by a total stranger.

If your post had ended about halfway down, I could understand that maybe you were a little naive, but the asking to see him again and bombarding him with messages really makes me wonder how you reason. If you are a single parent, you are an absolute idiot to go to random men's houses in remote locations when it would have been easy as anything to meet in a bar or something. Please think more about your own safety.