telling him it's emotional abuse....

[blueseagreensea]

My marriage is in pieces. I have mentioned some of the issues on MN before using another name. We are struggling with the fallout from his "affair" with a colleague. Not full blown but definitely emotional and kissing and now over. But they still work together.
But this situation has just brought everything to a head. Namely the way he treats me. So I have had years of it - emotional abuse and angry tempers involving punching of walls and household items / smashing items. Never hit me and i believe he never would. He pushed me once and said "feel like killing you!"
Lots of this several years ago but still recent / very recent tempers / swearing at me / emotional stuff.
When I mention all this and say I don't like it this is his response ... "Why mention stuff from years ago?" " you don't forgive". "I don't do it often." "you saying i'm a violent husband?!" "I'm not that bad"
Yes of course he can be very loving and good but not all the time. He often says "you don't know what goes on in other homes" "I've said I'm sorry".
He makes me feel guilty with some of these comments about forgiveness. These comments also apply to the affair situation which I'm struggling to get over. Some days I say ok I forgive / I will try to move on. Then I change my mind especially when he is horrible to me and now he says I'm being unfair to him. I keep trying to be honest with him. One part of me wants to just walk away completely.
We started couples counselling but because I disclosed some of his behaviours they will no longer do joint sessions. He has just found out about this and he is upset and cross.
It has helped me to be more assertive and straight with him. I have only recently talked about him being controlling and now I am saying more. I still haven't said "emotional abuse" but I am trying.
The counsellor and I have suggested he has individual counselling about his behaviours but he still isn't fully sure. He says he will go because I've asked him but then in a row he will say the opposite... "I've forced him to go!" He also says what will it be about and what's the point? He just doesn't seem to get it.
Have I been a fool to put up with his behaviour for so long. Why does he make me feel guilty for "Bringing up the past?" Please tell me that it is not normal to tell your partner to f off and call them an f... sh ... bla bla (sorry for swearing)? I feel so anxious when he starts and so resentful about it all. So many posts I read on MN are so similar to my situation and they have helped me tremendously.

Remember that you can only break your own pattern of behaviour, not his.

It was a eureka moment when I realised this about me and my mother. I wasted a vast amount of energy trying to change her behaviour, i.e. manipulate her into having a personality that was acceptable to me. Classic codependency really. So much easier when I accepted her for the selfish loon she is and worked on my own needs and boundaries instead. Life changing stuff.

I can see I've spent to much time trying to understand him/work him out and try to change him.
I'm going to focus on me now.

Good luck. The weight off your shoulders will be amazing. You could have such a wonderful future.

Something else he does which really upsets me is apparent lack of loyalty. In particular, with our teenage daughter who can be very difficult as in rude and swearing at me, he will NOT back me up! It will go something like this... I will try to make coversation with daughter who may be in foul mood and ends up swearing at me..he won't say anything to her but will say to me words like "it's your argument" and she walks off and we end up rowing. I ask him "why can't you jusy say 'don't be rude/please apologise'?" He gets angry with me and says "don't tell me what to say"! (Sometimes he tells her off but the inconsistency is so unfair and drives me crazy! And btw she is loads better now thank goodness).
I know if it was the other way round I would definitely support him. I really don't know why he does it and it hurts me. And he does it also in othet contexts. He makes everything seem like a power struggle when I'm not even thinking like that. He turns an ordinary conversation or if I ask a question in to a row!

You've done it again on that last post! A long description of him being a twat. I get to the last part, your conclusion, and there is no conclusion from your point of view, you went off on a tangent about why he does it, his need for power struggles etc.

Could you throw away the last four sentences of your post and write a new four that are about you not him?

Ok sorry
Just think I need to get it all out and say what he's like. It's only very recently that I've talked to others and one of those is the counsellor.
Ok I will tell you that I don't like him anymore. I want a new life of peace and quiet. I am starting to feel a little bit stronger but still have a long way to go. I also feel depressed and why I have I made so many mistakes? And leaving/separating is not easy.

“Leaving/separating is not easy”.
No, but it’s a hell of a lot easier than spending the whole rest of your life being miserable and trying to appease a selfish abuser who doesn’t give one shiny shit about your happiness!
OP, stop wasting any more time and energy trying to analyse this bastard. You only get one life. Why spend it with him?
Bite the bullet. Make your arrangements (finance, accommodation, etc) and then start having a life. Good luck!

A new life of peace and quiet sounds lovely.

What would your days be like?

Much better than now and no treading on eggshells.
And no mean comments about things such as voluntary work I do.

That's an absence of things, which would be a massive improvement of course. Can you express it in positive terms though as if he didn't exist, never existed.

I was once told never to write a goal that you could meet by being dead! So not lose weight or stop smoking or stop walking on eggshells or don't have my work belittled

I find it surprisingly effective to avoid the dead-winner goals.

For example I can change the dead-winners above to become things like:
lose weight -> eat more fish and vegetables or eat only at regular meal times^
stop smoking -> talk to someone when I feel like a cigarette or go to the pub with non-smokers
stop walking on eggshells -> live with nice people
don't have my work belittled -> live with nice people

"Why does he make me feel guilty for "Bringing up the past?"

Sounds like a nasty person who felt entitlement to his 'freedoms" and now feels angry that your hurt made him look like a bastard. Bastards don't like being made to look it. They hate "guilt", and by that they mean other people making them feel guilty for they themselves rarely feel remorse. A good, but faulty person wold have been mortified what his affair did to you and understand that he underestimated how much he hurt you, and feel mortified. He'd know that you need reassurance, and this is why "you bring up the past". Your husband doesn't dig any of that.

And you aren't a fool for putting up with it for so long, just a kind person who can't believe other person's shittiness.

Thank you to all of you for yoyr kind words and straight talking.
I'm still worried about his reaction when I finally separate although I keep telling him. The impact on others also, but I have spoken to counsellor about this.
I've given him many chances and now had enough. How do some women get tough and confident? I still need help. I'm always worried about upsetting people. Hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

It takes a good while to get that 'thick skin'
So many women are brought up to be people pleasers.
It takes a lot to shake us out of it.
But you'll get there!

OP, you’re a people pleaser. I understand that- it’s how the majority of women are socially conditioned to be. But hey, YOU are “people” too! How about trying to please YOU? How about comforting and nurturing and doing what’s best for that person called you? Why should you be the only one who doesn’t get her needs met?
Honestly, OP, stop wasting your love on a twerp who doesn’t appreciate it, and start giving yourself some instead.

I would say your first step to becoming tough and confident is to recognise that you worry too much about upsetting other people then make an active choice to override yourself, take action anyway and just live with the misplaced guilty feeling. Feel the fear and do it anyway.

What people are you worried about?

Almost everyone, even people I don't know - I suppose this is anxiety and stress too. I do like helping people. The counsellor says same stuff that you all say like "what about my feelings?"

Help people by modelling the correct behaviour in this situation. Imagine you were to work for WA one day and you had to teach women in similar situations what to do. If that line of thinking helps you break bad patterns...

I recommend a book called The Reality Slap.

The Reality Slap: How to Find Fulfilment When Life Hurts

Thank you and I will read the book.
I am so depressed.
Just wish this was all over and I could be in a different place.

Hi OP, how are things? I am
Going through a similar thing to you. My H has been going to counselling but seems to have got worse since he started. His sense of entitlement is high and he lacks even more empathy than before!

My H has been verbally abusive for years, had a similar affair to the one that you described (which he blamed on me because I was depressed after my mother died and I wasn't showing him enough attention!). He is angry, narcissistic and rude to me and my daughters.

I've recently been signed off work with stress, a horrible experience as I felt so ill (nausea, headaches, chills, back pain). I am also dependent on sleeping tablets (something I am trying to solve). This stems from his need to have me sleep with him every night, despite him having the TV AON until late, snoring loudly and making a lot of noise when he wakes in the morning at 5.45. Of course, he is the one doing a full days work so therefore I don't count!

He has been out 5 times over the last week and several the week before. Because I am now not working he feels entitled to do what the hell he wants. I brought this up last night as I have a plan to quit the sleeping pills and he just shouted at me that he couldn't guarantee when he would be in or not and I should just throw the pills away (it's not as easy as that, you have to taper).

Anyway, the row then escalated and he started to walk away, told me I was one of those women who push buttons. He started to shout about how mad I make him! I put my foot down and told him that his anger was HIS problem, that he needed to learn how to manage it. I also explained that I was asking for his help as I truly want to stop taking these pills.

Like you, I'm not sure how much more I can take. I am at breaking point. If I kee quiet then he goes around doing what the hell he wants and not supporting him when I need him most. If I try to speak to him about it (it took me 3 days and several glasses of wine) to pluck up the courage, then I am a nagging bitch!

It's hopeless!

Big hugs xxxxx

What do you think it says about you if you can’t forgive him? Do you think it means you’re a horrible person?

What if you accept you can’t forgive him? Tell him “You’re right. I don’t forgive you. We can’t continue as a couple. I think you should leave.”

Forgiveness doesn’t mean continuing to put up with it. You could separate and in your heart forgive him because you see he is a limited human being. But it doesn’t mean you have to put up with his shit and it wouldn’t mean you would forget it.

I don’t think it’s possible to forgive and forget when the person doesn’t show remorse, and continues with those behaviours. His behaviour is not acceptable and he won’t change. What is there to forgive in that?

He’s found a button that you have and he presses it. He knows all he has to say is “you don’t forgive” and you crumble. Somewhere in your past you absorbed the message you’re not a good person if you don’t forgive and he’s exploiting that.

If you could own it that you dont forgive him, you’d remove that button and it wouldn’t work on you. “Too right I don’t forgive you, you’ve treated me like shit for years and you’re a lying cheater. I don’t forgive you for any of it. It’s you’re actions that killed this relationship not me”.

Also check out www.chumplady.com her tag line is “leave a cheater, gain a life”.

Hi everyone and thanks for your messages. @doingmybest1 I can see that we have a very similar situation and I hope you manage to come off the meds and you are ok.
My husband too is very arrogant and just seems to have become more selfish and self entitled. He struggles to show any empathy.
Sadly the other day one of my children heard him call me an "Absolute F.... C...." as I walked away!
When I asked him it was the usual clever getting out of it... started by being angry, telling me that I "Listen by doors", he was upset, saying didn't remember ... eventually said sorry if he did say something!
This is typical of his dismissive, minimising behaviour. In particular he has done this over the last few months regarding the "Affair" situation. For example, I'm not allowed to call it an affair and yesterday he said it was just a stupid kiss. He then reminded me how I don't forgive.
He also tells me it isn't healthy to hold on to past and remember info and write things down.
I'm struggling with the forgiving/forgetting thing and yes you are right he exploits it.
Ultimately though, and I have told him, it is his on-going behaviour over the years and still now through this affair situation which has finished it for me. The affair just brought it all to a head and was the final straw.
This is not what I wanted or envisaged. But I have to think of my future.

OP, it sounds like you are being strong. It's the first step in the right direction. For years and years I just wanted to please my husband and was scared of any confrontation. It was almost brainwashing! I have learnt to stand up to him and look after myself.

I'm half way through the Lundy Bancroft book mentioned above and whilst there are some behaviors that don't fit, sadly a lot do.
I'm currently reading the part about when the abuser realizes that he can use the same old tactics on you. That seems to fit where I am right now.

My H has been nice again this morning, he's said he'll help me with the meds and we have agreed a plan.

Have you made the decision to leave? I did ask my H to move out a couple of months ago but he begged me to stay. Things have definitely got better than they were but we still have outbursts.

Given how ill I have been, I am focusing on myself at the moment, who knows what the future will hold

Good luck OP xxx