telling him it's emotional abuse....

[blueseagreensea]

My marriage is in pieces. I have mentioned some of the issues on MN before using another name. We are struggling with the fallout from his "affair" with a colleague. Not full blown but definitely emotional and kissing and now over. But they still work together.
But this situation has just brought everything to a head. Namely the way he treats me. So I have had years of it - emotional abuse and angry tempers involving punching of walls and household items / smashing items. Never hit me and i believe he never would. He pushed me once and said "feel like killing you!"
Lots of this several years ago but still recent / very recent tempers / swearing at me / emotional stuff.
When I mention all this and say I don't like it this is his response ... "Why mention stuff from years ago?" " you don't forgive". "I don't do it often." "you saying i'm a violent husband?!" "I'm not that bad"
Yes of course he can be very loving and good but not all the time. He often says "you don't know what goes on in other homes" "I've said I'm sorry".
He makes me feel guilty with some of these comments about forgiveness. These comments also apply to the affair situation which I'm struggling to get over. Some days I say ok I forgive / I will try to move on. Then I change my mind especially when he is horrible to me and now he says I'm being unfair to him. I keep trying to be honest with him. One part of me wants to just walk away completely.
We started couples counselling but because I disclosed some of his behaviours they will no longer do joint sessions. He has just found out about this and he is upset and cross.
It has helped me to be more assertive and straight with him. I have only recently talked about him being controlling and now I am saying more. I still haven't said "emotional abuse" but I am trying.
The counsellor and I have suggested he has individual counselling about his behaviours but he still isn't fully sure. He says he will go because I've asked him but then in a row he will say the opposite... "I've forced him to go!" He also says what will it be about and what's the point? He just doesn't seem to get it.
Have I been a fool to put up with his behaviour for so long. Why does he make me feel guilty for "Bringing up the past?" Please tell me that it is not normal to tell your partner to f off and call them an f... sh ... bla bla (sorry for swearing)? I feel so anxious when he starts and so resentful about it all. So many posts I read on MN are so similar to my situation and they have helped me tremendously.

Whatever your decision do whatever is going to make your happy.

This marriage doesn't sound as if it is.

Also, it seems as if you are putting in all the effort here. HE is the one who had the affair - he should have been the one to suggest therapy and HE should be the one eager to go so to repair the damage he has caused.

It can be the hardest thing to admit that relationship is well and truly over. But you need to think of yourself and your happiness, as well as your future.

What kind of partner do you want in your life? What features do they have? What do you need in a relationship to make you happy. Write a list and see if he comes anywhere close.

And if he isn't acknowledging his behaviour then that is a big problem. He should want to make the necessary changes to make you happy. He sounds incredibly selfish.

You want someone to respect you, to cherish you, to make you laugh, to want to spend time with you, to care about your relationship.

That person is out there for you.

I know this is a different situation but end of last year I split with my BF. When you are in it - it's hard to see and accept how they treat you, even if everyone else around you can.

My ex called me the C word multiple times - yelling in my face, despite me telling him never to call me that word. "Why say such a horrible thing?" "Well that's because you were being one."

No. No. No.

Get up in my face and blow beer breath at me on purpose?

No. No. No.

Watch p* and play the X Box I bought you for V Day instead of taking time to write in my card you got me.

Hell no.

Tell me to "Shut Up", Tell me "Couples don't hug after 2 years" when asked if he could be slightly more tactile... NO.

Tell me I'm not allowed in the kitchen or the study or in fact tell me I'm not to go anywhere in my own home?

NO.

I could go on haha. We wouldn't accept this kind of behaviour from our friends. Why accept it from a partner?

Anyway, you deserve soooo much better. You've tried. You've taken all you can take. Now is the time to start thinking about your happiness.

I cry nearly everyday. I'm losing confidence and have anxiety. Getting older and think I look older - she was many years younger! I avoid some situations/ places. Looking after family and others keeps me busy. He even saud horrible things about voluntary work I do then said he didnt mean it but I think he does!
I just want friendship and communication and peace.
The counsellor is very good and I go on my own. It's taken me ages to tell him why he can't go and know he knows. He has gone a bit quiet and I feel relieved it's out but also scared and sad.

Oh that is horrible. I am really sorry to hear you feel that way.

You are a beautiful person that deserves the world and deserves to be happy - you won't remember what that's like right now but when you do you will be oh so glad you made the right choices to walk away.

How you are feeling now won't last forever. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. And I know it's not my place but I do feel that the first step towards that is taking a step away from your husband.

It's not right that he is making you feel scared and sad. That's not how a husband should make you feel.

That's great you volunteer and look after others including your family but be careful not to get too lost in this and lose yourself.

You are an individual person with wants and needs please do not ignore them or run away from them.

Again not my place to say, but have you considered also going to the GP - they may be able to help you with the low mood and anxiety - something that often goes hand in hand with depression even if mild.

They might also be able to refer you to other counselling too.

Thank you for your kind words.

Do you think when he says horrible things in rows that is what he really thinks and it all es out? And then he says otherwise and back and forth. I feel so confused and ask why he does it? I do not does this to him and I don't tell him to f off etc. I do get emotional and cry and he just gets angry. Sometimes he can be nice but it never lasts. There's always something.

There will always be something...it's not you it's him. He needs there to be something to make himself feel better. Don't waste a second longer waiting for an apology and lasting change because the chances are they're not going to arrive.

Why does he make me feel guilty for "Bringing up the past?"

Please can you give me your opinions on the saying of horrible things in rows then backtracking later?

Hello OP. I'm so sorry you are going through this.

Both of these questions stood out for me amongst your posts. Both of these are part of the cycle of abuse that he is subjecting you to. He back tracks because it minimises his role and his behaviour. He tries to make you feel guilty so that he can keep you under control. If he admitted both of these things were wrong, he would have to admit to the abuse, and he can't do that. Instead, he needs to deflect the issue so that it becomes your fault, and then he can justify his increasing abuse of you. He also plays on your dislike of conflict, and your empathy - your understanding that he is stressed for example.

OP, please go and do some reading about abuse. Get hold of a copy of "why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft. Also "It's my life now" (I can't remember the author). I just finished reading "I'm still standing" by Mel Carnegie, which was good. Also google the cycle of abuse - envisioncounsellingcentre.com/innerpage/resources/partner-abuse/cycle-of-abuse/

Knowledge is power. Your counsellor sounds good and it sounds like you're already becoming more aware of your H's patterns of behaviour. Unfortunately, it's unlikely that he'll ever acknowledge there is anything wrong with his behaviour, as he doesn't see there is a problem with it. What you can do is change your reaction to it.

If you want to leave him, you don't have to explain why. You don't need him to understand. You just need to do what is right for YOU.

@brakebackcyclebot. Thank you for your post - you are right and you understand - and yes that is how it is. In one way I was hoping couples counselling would give me chance to "have my say" with someone to help me and stand up to him/ challenge. Even though i'm frustrated this now won't happen I understand why. A few relatives are not up to speaking to him or think there's no point.
However, in some ways I have "found my voice" but doubt if I will ever say everything or even get the chance. I accept I need to focus on leaving but he gets upset or cross when I say this and it makes it so difficult for me. We have older children who know a lot of this too. I truly do want to leave but I'm worried about the whole process. In some ways i'm just prolonging it all. He does not convince me of anything nor reassure me.

He is either saying what he really means during rows, which is horrible. Or he doesn't mean it, but does it to really hurt you, which is horrible. What difference does it make, it's horrible either way?! Stop trying to understand and rationalise his actions. It's pointless. The result is the same. You are in extreme pain, and he doesn't give a shit.

I think I remember one of your posts from a little while ago OP.

The only thing I can really say is stop trying to justify his behaviour. There is no point, as abusive people simply don't think the way a normal person does.

Don't bother discussing with him that you're leaving as it could trigger violence. Get yourself together and go. Look through what you've been advised to do by other posters on here, as it's good advice.

You are stuck OP. It's normal. Change can be scary & uncertain. What do you think is stopping you from leaving? What will it be like if it's still like this in a year's time?

What motivates you to change? If you wanted to lose weight, would you look at a photo of a larger you, or a photo of a slim you - which would motivate you? Are you a carrot or stick person? This will make a difference to how you can get yourself comfortable with leaving. Will you be more motivated by the promise of the future, or by need to escape the present?

He doesn't seem to have any empathy at all. Any good times are outweighed by the bad and all the upsetting memories and especially all the awful recent stuff. I think I'm truly ground down and yes I just often imagine a peaceful, quiet future.

Hi @blueseagreensea I actually came on here tonight looking for something on verbal abuse - because I think I (and you by the sound of things) are on the receiving end. Lundy Bancroft is definitely good but I've also found books by Patricia Evans useful. She talks about men who deny saying things/twist your words/call you too sensitive... all the things they do

It is helping to read, and recognise, all this stuff. But like you, I find my sense of what I can feel about things messed up - I feel angry and hurt but he tells me I'm being too sensitive.

I'm sorry not to be more help - though when I read your experience it's clear it isn't right and you CAN trust your reactions. Guess all we can do is keep building our confidence and see where that takes us

Thank you for your message @namedchanged77 and I'm sorry you have to deal with it all too. I will have to read the books you mention.
He's just done it all again tonight when I tried to explain and I think i stayed very calm and rational. He didn't want to hear it though and off he went.
It's so sad and incredibly painful.

I should have left him years ago. After some of the things he's said and done and now minimizing it all and blaming me for not being forgiving!
I feel a bit stronger now but it isn't easy.

Please tell me that it is not normal to tell your partner to f off and call them an f... sh ... bla bla

It's normal for abusers. Not for others.

He sounds awful and he's not remorseful for the affair...he just regrets you finding out.

Trying to convince someone who abuses to this level they're wrong is a waste of time.

Once you have decided it's over..have your plan and all you need to say is "It's not working for me." "We aren't compatible anymore"

Make it how you feel and what you want...rather than "your behaviour is xyz...you need to change...be nicer etc

He won't change...he'll argue with you and defend himself or attack you.

If you keep it to how you feel...he can't argue with that. You know you're own mind.

Really good advice thank you.
I will try and do that and talk about how I feel.
I don't believe he will change.

Good luck @blueseagreensea You are worth so much more.
Great advice @SandyY2K re the practical side of actually getting things over without giving him the opportunity to enter into a discussion.
I feel at a similar point with my H, time to pull our big girl pants on and very on with things.

@blueseagreensea is he getting help for his anger issues ?

Have suggested anger management counselling to him in the past, but it never happens.
Have now suggested he goes for individual counselling (as has the couples counsellor).
He says yes sometimes then changes his mind saying what exactly for? He just doesn't get it.
I'm just going to leave it now and will not be mentioning it again.
Unless he recognises and admits to his inappropriate behaviour then there really is no point.
This is why i think the relationship is now irretrievably broken down and I want out.

@blueseagreensea that's defo a red flag for me

I know what you mean.
I wish Mumsnet was around years ago. It truly helps me so much - I never talked to anyone for years partly out of fear/ shame / hoping he would change.
But now, because of MN, counselling and talking to just a few people in real life I feel stronger and able to make the decision to walk away and leave.

but he gets upset or cross when I say this and it makes it so difficult for me
So what if he gets upset and cross?
He can't make it that difficult.
A divorce is a divorce and the courts decide what needs to happen if he won't play ball.
Go and see a couple of solicitors and see where you would stand.
Knowledge is power.

Thank you everyone for all your kind messages and advice. @SandyY2K your messages always mean a lot to me.
I'm crying my eyes out so depressed.
But thank you all again.

accept I need to focus on leaving but he gets upset or cross when I say this and it makes it so difficult for me

Of course he does, because he doesn’t want you to leave him.

You need to either a toughen up and ignore his getting cross and upset when you mention or organise it all on your side on the quiet, and present it as a fait accompli.