Marriage counsellor has just made me angry- what should I do?

[badsurname]

Went for first couples counselling session with stbxh this evening. We have been separated for nearly a year following me catching him in an affair.

I realise she was trying to be even but I felt attacked for the whole session. She basically said our marriage was clearly crap before (it wasn't ) and he agreed with her. While he may have agreed if he thinks back to when his mind was fuelled by lust and irritation at having to be separated from ow, if he thought back only six months more we were good and had been for 16 years. I don't think I am willing to go if she is going to require me to accept half the blame for his inability to keep his dick in his pants so what should I do;

A) request a new counsellor- it's provided by employee assistance programme.
B) go, but be clear with her next time that our marriage may not have been perfect but it was pretty damn good before he crapped all over it.
C) go but change the agenda to amicably divorcing and clearing the air rather than potentially reconciling so she stops defending him so much.
D)give up and try again in another year when I am less angry?!

I am so pissed off. It didn't help that he has the lurgy and has been "wfh" while ive been working hard in London, so she clearly didn't believe me that he was a workaholic who left me holding the baby while he was away all week working and shagging.

Please be gentle. I'm really upset

Op, I had an almost identical experience ('we' meaning I had trust issues, which turned out many months later to be completely grounded in fact, but when I arranged the counselling I was in the dark as to the extent.)

Ex showed up unwell, unwashed, unshaven, silent with resentment, and I showed up smartly dressed with my 'why we are here' notes.

Once ex began to mumble 'ashamed .. embarrassed .. my parents will be so disappointed in me', it was like the light of grace and benediction shone down on him. A grand old dose of Catholic guilt and there was I sat like an unforgiving cross biddy refusing to feel sorry for him, as the counsellor asked him did he feel 'heard' and could I not hear his pain

He was gone within the year. I now attend counselling on my own, a HUGE amount of which is centred on why I am an apologetic people-pleaser doormat who always puts herself last out of a misguided sense of playing fair.

If you sought counselling in order to validate your decision and execute an orderly exit, I think you are wasting your time with this particular set-up. One-on-one will concentrate and coach you to have the confidence to take the next step. I strongly recommend you do not invest more time and head-space in this effort, which, though understandable and well-intentioned DOES NOT HELP YOU.

How can it have been a 'happy' marriage if you hated being a SAHM and felt so trapped? Clearly, it wasn't and the cracks WERE there.

Does this mean it is in any way your fault he cheated? A big fat NO. It's on him. Saying there were issues in the marriage does not mean blame on you.

I have a six year old who has started sleepwalking and a four year old who wakes up screaming every night.

I have to question whether it is as a result of the separation.

The children will take their cues from you. So rather than being a result of the separation, it's more likely to be a result of how the adults are acting.
Honestly, I know how hard it is when something like this comes out of the blue. Or seems to. I truly don't think it ever does, we just don't always want to SEE. I would suggest you go back to individual counselling and I wish you all the best

agnurse "If he had an affair, there was something that he needed or wanted from your marriage that he wasn't getting. Clearly there were already issues in your marriage before he started up with the OW."

Oh my god! That is absolute RUBBISH! Tbh, you sound like the other woman. Trying to justify it. Men cheat because......they can. Because they enjoy the thrill. In many cases, the men are getting everything they want and need at home but still cheat. I cannot believe you said something so ill-informed.

Whether he 'really agrees' or was 'just delighted to have her on his side', the fact remains that he made agreeing noises and is clearly invested in the narrative that your marriage was over and all he did was act on that 'fact'.

You need to accept that there is no question here - there is no 'did he really agree' or was he just 'pleased that someone saw it his way' question.

You are giving head space to the equivalent of the question 'how long is a piece of string?'

The resolution to your angst is in front of your eyes, in plain sight:
He embraced the narrative that the marriage counsellor dangled in front of him. You effectively caught him red handed again.

He does not want this marriage. If he did then he would be falling over himself apologising and taking responsibility. Instead he jumped at the chance to have the narrative he has in his head affirmed by a person with 'authority'.

He has checked out, my dear. You cannot force him to engage with you in the marriage relationship. The best alternative you can hope for is to focus on co-parenting effectively and respectively.

You may well find that drawing a line under this marriage and using your energy to create a solid little world for the children, focused on them 100%, will bring about a better sense of security for them.

www.infidelityhelpgroup.com/2014/01/31/rewriting-history/
It's a well known and very predictable script. People who cling to it even when they are faced with the prospect of losing their families are:
Power-and-control hungry,
Too proud to say sorry and mean it,
Too invested in having things their own way,
Not marriage material.

You are not going to put a dent in this narrative. You are not going to hear him say sorry.

Of course he chose to have the affair and of course he had the option of sitting down with you to talk honestly about how awful your marriage was (). The fact is, he didn't. Now you are facing all of his justifications and it is doing your head in. He is completely invested in his version of events because they make him look good. He is willing to throw you and the last 16 years of your life under the bus in order to maintain his own self image.

This rewrite of your history with them is so frustrating. You were there dammit! You’re not stupid, or unobservant! You lived this history WITH them – you were the one they laughed with, danced around the kitchen with, whispered their dreams to. And yet here they are, telling you that your understanding of your history is wrong, that it was as manufactured and carefully preserved as the ever-lasting Twinkie.

The Fakery Bakery
In order to cook the perfect batch of fakery, the cheater needs to follow a recipe. The cheater script is a perfect recipe to whip up a batch of history-mystery for you.

Let’s look at the flimflam that has been presented to you in the conversation you just read:

1. “I haven’t been happy for years.”

If I say that I have been perfectly content, that doesn’t fit in well with my ‘and that’s why I am entitled to my affair‘ rationale, so paint me unhappy! In fact, let me stress the point that I am not just recently unhappy, but valiantly struggling against my unhappiness for years. That gives me pathos, grit, and means I am just a good person who crumbled under the crushing weight of unhappiness. Just don’t ask me the specifics because that part of my story is a bit murky, and doesn’t hold up well under close examination.

I really recommend this site for you.

Rewriting History

As if finding out about the affair wasn’t difficult enough to deal with, you have probably found yourself facing your cheater’s own version of this type of fakery.

All you need to do is swallow a few of these delectable fakery morsels to find yourself in a state of perpetual confusion, self-doubt, and a puddle of tears on the bakery floor. Your history is being quite nimbly deconstructed and reconstructed, and is now looking like something you don’t recognize at all.

Your past as you know it is unraveling, and this newly told version of events erases a considerable part of how you saw your relationship. You probably tie much of your identity into your contribution and commitment to your family. You’ve probably invested most of your energies into your family, home, and relationship, and now are faced with someone (who shared your history) whitewashing over the top of it.

<span class="italic">“The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.”</span>
~ George Orwell

You are not crazy or stupid. If you missed signs of their ‘unhappiness’, it’s because they weren’t there, or they were deliberately concealed from you. Your only crime here was to believe your cheater when they told you that they were happy, committed, and faithful.

Don’t let yourself be flimflammed by a cheater trying to protect and preserve their story while the truth wriggles away like a snake in the grass.
Don’t Let Nonsense Stand as Fact

Don’t be cowed into accepting a distorted presentation of reality (or blame for your cheater’s affair), in fear that it will make them leave. If they leave it will be because they want to, not because you refused to be the scapegoat for their affair.

Be authentic. If your cheater tries to rewrite history, trust your own memories and assert the facts. If they try to muddle reality and re-frame life to fit in with their self-protection or rationalizations for their affair, recognize it as manipulation and don’t be frightened to voice the truth.

But do not hold out hope that you can use your countering narrative as a means of making the cheater see reason and take responsibility. Cheaters are incredibly invested in their script.

(From the same link).

This is hard. I did both at the same time - individual and couples. Had started individual therapy several years before. Therapist was not keen on the idea of couples therapy - thought I needed to spend more time considering my needs than the relationship. The issue with couples therapy is that the focus is on the relationship. Anyway - I found it hard because the focus was very much on him. This annoyed me as I felt that i wasn’t being heard. The issue wasn’t infidelity. However I stuck at it and actually it gave me the strength to walk away. Yes most of the time she focused on him and what he didn’t like. But it helped me hear him for the first time if that makes sense. And eventually after about five sessions she started noting where he was being inconsistent. And that helped me understand that I wasn’t going crazy - someone else was recognising what he was doing. So overall I think stick with it. I am not sure you can tell from one session if the therapist is any good or on someone else’s side. You have to give it more time. You are not set on leaving so how will you make the decision to stay or go? In the absence of a sign from god, maybe give this a chance for a while to see what happens. If you don’t, will you do anything else or stay in a state of indecision paralysed? I honestly don’t think you can tell straight away about sides.

Just to be clear - not saying anything about whether you should divorce or not - that is personal to you and him and the relationship. I don’t believe once a cheat always a cheat. I do think people can fuck up royally and then become a better person. I also think some people can’t change. I don’t believe any relationship is perfect and I see time and time again people who are not able to raise any problems they have and pretend like it is perfect for them. If you aren’t 100% decided to leave then it seems to make sense to see which category he falls into. Giving a long term marriage with children involved a chance to be repaired is not weak. It takes strength to even contemplate staying. Worth giving it one or two years even in this context I think so that when you do decide you know it is because of what you really want rather than what you think you should do x

Many marriage counsellors are terrible gaslighting fuckers. And if you get a bad one - bad ones often start off with the assumption of equal guilt which your counsellor is doing (actually she seems to be laying everything at your door!) - they can make things so much worse, because the man now has an "expert" backing him up.

Cancel any other appointments you have with her. She is not going to be helpful. In fact she may have made him feel utterly vindicated.

OP you have to ask yourself what are you looking to get out of couples counselling - were you hoping that STBX was going to be filled with guilt and remorse and beg you to make it work? And are you feeling angry/sad/disappointed that he didn’t ?

I second the posters recommending individual counselling for you- time to focus on you and what you want.

Ultimately you can’t control how people feel or what they do, and if your STBX isn’t telling you what a dick he has been, taking full responsibility and trying to beg your forgiveness and make this work right now then he never will.

You can’t make him want to fight for your marriage, but you can take control of your choices and choose to divorce him and move your life on.

Firstly did you check out the counsellors background before hand?
what qualifications does she have?
what is her theoretical approach ?
She should have explained all this in the first session. Got you both to fill a questionare about your current state,asked why you are there and where you want to be by the end.

If no assesment was done how, did she reach that conclusion?
It does sound like you need someone else if this wasnt done. Depending on the eap provider you should be able to go back explain its not working and get someone else after the first session which is really just a fact finding mission for you as well as the counsellor.

Either way im inclined to agree with those who say something wasnt right in your marriage. Eveen if the something was that your husband was a selfcentred prick that is a something thats not right.

Divorcing to spite the counsellor is nonsencical. If you are going to divorce do it because a life without him in it is what you want for yourself. If he is a good dad he will be a good dad whether you are together or not. If he isnt one,being together wont change it or your childrens current issues.

What I learnt from marriage counselling is that reconcilliation or divorce you need to find a way to disperce the anger or you will not be happy once the choice is made and the kids will feel the negative effects. I also learnt that the process can be painfull before it gets better as such it is a lot of hard work. If you arent ready for that dont waste your time stick to individual counselling.

She sounds like a bad counsellor.

I’m having mc for similar reasons to you (affair) and she hasn’t once insinuated that his affair was anything to do with me. I have actually found it really helpful that he’s had to admit everything he’s done in the cold light of day to someone who’s independent and witness her slightly horrified reaction (not her being biased but a normal human response to hearing something awful).

We’ve talked a lot about events leading up to it, etc and all the justifications, which I expect he thought sounded so solid in his own head, sound really flaky when said out loud. He has been reduced to tears (he never cries) hearing what I really think and how I’ll never look at him in the same light. It has helped me to see him actually show some emotion for once.

So I think with the right person it can be helpful. I would take option (a) and request another counsellor.

Do what Ravenmum said xx

I don't believe in "once a cheat, always a cheat" either; I think anyone is capable of cheating. So you can choose a Lovely Guy who's never cheated before, and he'll cheat for the first time ten years later. Or you can choose someone who cheated before, but his circumstances are now different and he doesn't want to cheat with you.

So basically, you never know if someone might cheat. They might also just go off you, or you might go off them. There's never a guarantee that a relationship will last. Accepting that is rather nice, as it means that no, you don't have to go looking to see whose fault it was, afterwards. It happens without fault. And it means that you don't have to stick around with someone you are not sure about if you don't like.

Children want stability, but it doesn't have to be the stability of a marriage. It can be the stability of knowing that you see your dad Mon-Thu and your mum the rest of the week. Mine are older, but they were still upset by the horrible atmosphere. When he went, and we could settle back down into the new situation, things got a lot better.

If you were just starting to date him, would you have a second date?

I understand how you’re feeling OP. I felt thoroughly crushed and deflated with a counsellor.

Does sound like he did because he could. Perhaps put this view point across if you decide to try another session.

You can always stop the session at any time saying this is not helping you at this time. I wish I’d had known I could do this back then and may have had the strength to do it.

The combination of a bad counsellor and a lying DP can be devastating.

I agree with this.

OP, I think when you are happy again, your children will be fine. You need to focus on yourself.

Your husband is lying about the past because it puts him in a better light, particularly with a female counsellor. It sounds as though he's used to justifying his own bad behaviour by blaming his hard home life - it's easier for women to shag him that way, too.

If only those women had the sense to think, "You know what, he's drinking champagne with me after having a lovely dinner and before having a shag and a good sleep - his life isn't nearly as hard as he says it is."

I wouldn't see that counsellor again and I'd let her know why.

I would see a counsellor alone, though. I think you need someone to talk to and someone who's rooting for you.

Your stbxh is unattractive in so many ways:
He had an affair
He doesn't have your back - but agrees with "professionals". think about your labour story. Then think about when you are elderly and feel unwell - will he be arguing that medical professionals should take you seriously? If not that is a future that would terrify me. You need someone who will "fight your corner" and he isn't it.
He and you are the role model for your DC of relationships. Do you want them to think an affair is Okay? That it is okay to accept less than a true partner?

You need chumplady.com

If the marriage was so crap, then why didn’t he talk to you about it. Why didn’t he express his unhappiness, suggest counselling, take you away for a romantic weekend so you could reconnect?
Why was his action choosing to jump some strange? It’s because he felt entitled to have his cake and eat it.

And if marriage was crap, then does that mean it would have been ok if you’d have had an affair? Would he be feeling guilt at breaking up family, taking half the blame because he didn’t try hard enough? I seriously doubt it.

Trust that he sucks. And plan accordingly.

And go to chumplady.com. She’ll help you.

I'm sorry but it sounds like your marriage is over. I don't think you will be able to get back to a happy relationship - your DH is re-writing history to "look like the good guy" where he is not to blame for anything. So how will you ever get over the resentment and rebuild trust?

My DH did exactly the same at our relate counselling. Turned out it was all part of of game he was playing so that he could play the injured party. His narrative to friends and family was that "we even tried counselling to make it work" - but the week after Relate ended a secret OW appeared (not mentioned in counselling) and their wedding was booked before we were even divorced!

I would cut my losses now and focus efforts on counselling for the kids - not the marriage!

really liked what ravenmum said about cheating generally, and how stability can come in many forms.

I totally get where you’re coming from. In the same position as you (h had affair) and I started to lose my trust in the joint counsellor as she seemed more on his side and said things to me about my behaviour that I didn’t agree with. So we found a different one and it’s going much better but I did have ic after the joint and that really really helped me. It didn’t help me make a decision, only time has done that, but she helped me see that whatever I feel is valid and helped me build resilience to go through this next stage of mc.

One of the reasons we’re working at reconciliation is because over the months he has shown himself time and time again to be remorseful, sorry etc etc. He’s totally helped me heal. Whether I can fully trust or forgive Im not sure but only time will tell.

In term she of our marriage before the affair, I thought we were ok, not great but fine. But for various reasons he wasn’t happy at home and the ow just happened to be there. Of course, it should never have happened but it has and whether we reconcile or not I have to deal with it. I can totally see now my failings (as well as his) in the marriage and I take responsibility for that. But that does not mean that I’m in any way responsible for the affair. He chose that. But to stay together does mean analysing your relationship and it’s really fucking painful but it’s necessary to create a new marriage going forward.

There are no rights or wrongs going forward. It’s difficult with dc as if we didn’t have them I’m pretty sure I would have walked. But I want to try and keep the family together because despite everything it feels the right thing to do. If it doesn’t work we know we’ve tried but we’ve both said we won’t stay together for the sake of the dc if we’re unhappy.

My ic said something that resonated-if you don’t trust your mc then you’re in a room with 2 people you don’t trust. You could possibly give it another session or two but if you don’t trust her to work for the marriage and not take sides then it seems futile and you need someone else.

Thanks all. Didn't sleep last night and going over it in my head.

I've rung the EAP and asked to be reassigned.

Sorry ... he might have had an affair but if you can't accept half of the responsibilities of the reasons why then the counselling won't work ... you have to be able to take half the blame like your husband will ... if you want to sit there and listen to how wonderful you are and how crap your husband is .. then you have unrealistic expectations.

Ask about the qualifications of the new counsellor, and to switch to individual counselling.

Are you living separately?

Ignore the mooing.