Marriage counsellor has just made me angry- what should I do?

[badsurname]

Went for first couples counselling session with stbxh this evening. We have been separated for nearly a year following me catching him in an affair.

I realise she was trying to be even but I felt attacked for the whole session. She basically said our marriage was clearly crap before (it wasn't ) and he agreed with her. While he may have agreed if he thinks back to when his mind was fuelled by lust and irritation at having to be separated from ow, if he thought back only six months more we were good and had been for 16 years. I don't think I am willing to go if she is going to require me to accept half the blame for his inability to keep his dick in his pants so what should I do;

A) request a new counsellor- it's provided by employee assistance programme.
B) go, but be clear with her next time that our marriage may not have been perfect but it was pretty damn good before he crapped all over it.
C) go but change the agenda to amicably divorcing and clearing the air rather than potentially reconciling so she stops defending him so much.
D)give up and try again in another year when I am less angry?!

I am so pissed off. It didn't help that he has the lurgy and has been "wfh" while ive been working hard in London, so she clearly didn't believe me that he was a workaholic who left me holding the baby while he was away all week working and shagging.

Please be gentle. I'm really upset

He's a dick. Your marriage is over. Don't bother with this counsellor. She won't change the situation. Concentrate your efforts on getting rid of him and creating a new life. He doesn't appreciate you. Find someone who will.

Sorry but agnurse if he had an affair there was something ?

ODFOD. In my experience people cheat - or they don't
And cheaters don't do it because they haven't had sex for 3 days, but
they do it because they can.
I have lost count of the number of friends who have cheated or been cheated on.
They all do it because they think they can get away with it.
I no longer tolerate twats like that.

Don't see that counsellor again whatever you decide to do with (x)h

He did it because he could.
He did it because he wanted to.
He did it because the home setup allowed him to.

I agree 1000%> everyone has felt that frisson if excitement/attraction/possibility. Doesn't mean they choose to go off and have an affair.

But on the home setup allowing him to, yes it did. And I now know it did. But at the time, we repeatedly clapped ourselves on the backs for having a good model even if it wasn't 50:50 or 60:40 childcare. And it worked for us. And he declared his undying love for me. Until it didn't.

Don't go back. It's a waste of time with this counsellor. The combination of a bad counsellor and a lying DP can be devastating.
I'd opt for more individual counselling with a different counsellor instead.

I am feeling like a deer in the headlights again and unable to take the next step. So I was hoping counselling might help me make a decision.

You need to go back to the individual counselling.

Try to work on seeing yourself as a woman out in the world again, as an individual and not as half of a couple. It can be very mentally isolating to be the sahm dealing with all the puke and shit, and hard to lose the WE/US mindset and see yourself primarily as ME, I, MYSELF again - on your own with all the plusses and minuses that entails, single, responsible only for yourself and your children's care, making all the decisions, with no mental habit of relying on some backup. It can be hard to see the advantages of that.

Or work on facing the choice of reconciling and moving on with a very imperfect relationship in which you will never hear an apology. Your H is not ready to accept your truth here.

I realise she was trying to be even but I felt attacked for the whole session. She basically said our marriage was clearly crap before (it wasn't ) and he agreed with her. While he may have agreed if he thinks back to when his mind was fuelled by lust and irritation at having to be separated from ow, if he thought back only six months more we were good and had been for 16 years. I don't think I am willing to go if she is going to require me to accept half the blame for his inability to keep his dick in his pants so what should I do;

Maybe the marriage counsellor did you a favour in drawing out your H's inclination to agree with the 'script' that the she presented? Maybe you can see how inclined he is to agree with a narrative in which you were at least 50% of the 'problem'?

Cheaters always paint their relationships as faltering, flawed, on their last legs, 'going through the motions', 'only staying for the children', or 'only staying because she is so sensitive/incapable of holding it together/crazy she would kill me'... The betrayed spouse is portrayed as a lazy, bitchy, frigid, harpy who can't cook, neglects the children, has let herself go, smells...

The counsellor presented a very stereotypical narrative and apparently your H liked the sound of it. This is extremely significant.

I think the message you should take from this very useful session is that your H has mentally and emotionally checked out of the marriage.

You have no use whatsoever trying to present the facts of the marriage as you see it, or trying to get your H to take full responsibility for his own cheating. He is not willing to accept the truth. Worse, he is eager to jump on the 'spread the blame bandwagon'.

Are you willing to keep on trying to clap with one hand? Or would your time and energy be better spent proceeding with divorce and securing a good financial settlement for the children?

If you go to individual counselling, work on drawing a line under the relationship and moving forward with no sense of 'closure' that a sincere apology from your H would give you. This state of things can drive the innocent party to a very unhealthy place without assistance in moving past it.

If he had an affair, there was something that he needed or wanted from your marriage that he wasn't getting.

How do we know that? Lots of men cheat. Lots of men are serial cheaters. Lots of men are entitled fuckwits who think they can have a lovely wife and also sex with other women, because why the fuck not.

The point of marriage (AIUI) is to be committed to one person. If one of the parties to the marriage is unable to do that, for any reason, then that puts the marriage at risk. Not getting what you want from a marriage doesn't mean the injured party is at fault but that marriage perhaps isn't suited to the other person because they want what the marriage can't give (eg sex with others).

OP unless you ex also has individual counselling to look at why he cheated then what changes for him and his behaviour?

Your counselling is really just to deal with your anger at the situation and give you some support. I hope you're getting that.

*AnyFucker

Why bother ? confused*

I know I confuse you. I confused you a year ago and I still do now! Because I have been with this man for 16 years. Because I have his children. Because I built and planned a life for us all that didn't involve me one day finding out that he was having an affair because I searched his phone inspired by mumsnetters. Because I am a real person who believes in real flaws and wants fucking badly to believe in second chances. And unicorns if only. But struggles to believe in human beings these days.

And I'm an accountant but still struggle to apply the sunk costs fallacy to this situation . I have a six year old who has started sleepwalking and a four year old who wakes up screaming every night.

I have to question whether it is as a result of the separation.

That is why I bother.

Does he want to reconcile, though? Does he want to move back in and continue to have his home comforts (while occasionally dipping his wick elsewhere) - or does he want the divorce, but only if it can be framed in a way that presents him as a poor misunderstood star-crossed lover and you as a frigid, ball-breaking bitch?

If it’s Relate, then the philosophy that both partners are responsible for an affair is part of their training.

OP, you didn’t break up the marriage by filing for divorce, he did. There’s no reason you should hold yourself responsible for that. Furthermore, there’s nothing to save.

Save yourself time and money and crack on with the divorce and get therapy for yourself alone if need be.

If your not 110% behind saving the relationship couples counselling will never work. Are you really sure you want to be with this man? If not then walk away, get the divorce & live a happy life. We done couples counselling through relate & it was truly awful. I went to private counselling & exh was invited to come along. Counsellor was horrified by his actions but was very understanding. Didn't make him feel like the total bastard he was but I read between the lines & left. Hardest time of my life but so glad I did it. It does get easier.

@badsurname I'm sorry I didn't mean it as a slight or as assigning blame.

What I meant by home set up was that it offered him the chance for a high flying career with champagne and hotels and expenses. The excuse of the long hours. The lack of worry about childcare and sick kids and what not. Not being exhausted after looking after a baby all night.

He had luxuries that others can only dream of. And what did he do with them? Used his advantages and position to cheat.

Love, stop feeling guilty! You didn’t break the family up, HE did. Filing for divorce is like clearing up the broken bits when he threw the plate.

You are, very understandably, angry with him. He chose to have the affair, he chose to cheat & lie. Let him get on with making some other woman’s life a misery and you get on with moving on.

He’s a Shit & you deserve better 🌷

Don’t bother seeing that woman again, she’s worse than useless. Personally I wouldn’t bother with any joint counselling, but if you do, see someone else.

Take care of yourself 🌷

It sounds as if your ideal is to be helped to get through amicably but in practice you can't damp down the anger of the champagne vs norovirus occasion. I'm not surprised. Has he given any indication whatsoever of being sorry about this?
Just wondering if you have to go through truthful before there may be a chance of getting to amicable? Including truthful (and pissed off, and unfortunately, hurt) with the approach of the counsellor.

I have to question whether it is as a result of the separation

Well may you, but it’s not going to help your kids to get back together with someone you can never trust and will cheat on you again.

If he really thought your marriage was shit before the affair, what is there to save?

Many DC have night terrors or sleepwalk. Most likely no connection to the break up and even if there is do you really want to get back together with a man who wishes to partly blame you for his cheating?

Is all this angst useful in any way ?

Is any of it helping your kids more than a "fuck off now" attitude would do ?

My advice (always) after the disrespect that cheating uncovers is to detach completely

A clean break is what all of you need. Your kids will adjust. This prevarication helps no one.

Your kids will be ok if you move forward (on your own) with them.

I would put money on him cheating again (& again) if you take him back. How many times can you go through this and how many times can your kids go through this?

He’s royally fucked up your marriage & he’s taking NO responsibility for it. You’d never trust him again. Don’t let guilt make you ‘try again’. It very rarely works, even when the partner who had the affair does shoulder the responsibility and makes themselves totally accountable...which he will not do.

It’s hard and it hurts, as much for your children as yourself, but HE is the one causing the pain, not you. YOU can’t fix this

If he really thought your marriage was shit before the affair, what is there to save?

I don't think he does though. It felt like when I was in labour and he was nodding along with the "professionals" who wanted to send me home just before I gave birth to dc1 and he was bowing to their professional judgement. Today it felt like by not disagreeing he was agreeing but I felt like he should have stood up for us. Otherwise, as you say, there is nothing to fight for.

Oh & just to say, we had one full year of fucking night terrors, despite nothing notable happening at home. I was on my knees with it. Then a year after that bloody stopped, sleep walking....

This might not be helping, who knows, but equally it might have happened anyway. Lots of children do one or the other or both.

Either way, getting back with shithead won’t change it.

Baffled by the naive opinion of some " there must have been something wrong in your marriage "

Sorry to break it to you but some people just want to have sex with someone else regardless of how it is at home

Op you've done nothing wrong I understand the counseller needs to see both sides however your dh wanting his cake and eating it does not mean you were doing anything to drive him to that . Of course your relationship wasn't perfect because none are but sounds like she is going down the wrong track and it's incredibly unfair on you .

I wouldn't bother if I was you just work on getting yourself feeling good and leave the selfish arsehole to it

New counsellor.

Some counsellors aren’t good. They are not supposed to say stuff like ‘it was clearly crap before’. How do they know? They are supposed to question you and reflect back.

Not their own agenda. And unfortunately many people assume an affair is caused by unresolved difficulties within the marriage. This has NO evidence! It’s a myth really. Could be true sometimes, more often just an excuse for selfishness and opportunity.

Find a good counselor. One that’s recommended.

I had my own counseling about my Ex cheating on me with a well known relationship charity and I found them very judgemental too, basically saying that there must have been difficulties in the relationship. Even when I said that we were happy with a good sex life - they replied well obviously only from your perspective as there must have been problems. Jesus glad I didn’t stick with them!

I also went to couple counseling. She was OK, did see through a lot of my Exes bullshit. But then he attacked her for not giving him time for his views and it did become 90% about him. We went a second time but I gave up as he was leading her down the garden path which felt like our relationship all over. It’s a very tricky thing to get right I think, couple counseling.

RebelRogue
Thanks, that pretty much sums up my grievance that he took advantage of generosity in allowing him the high life while I took care of the drudgery at home.

Yes. I take umbrage with anyone trained to think affair- therefore problems. Unfortunately some people cannot look at a cake without taking a bite. And in the first few years, as we all know, it is difficult. But that doesn't mean there's problems in all marriages, just that some stray during the "early years". Every affair I read on here seems to have a child under 3 or a pregnancy involved.

I really don't think ours was a bad marriage. Just that he was a shit who decided to have his cake and eat it during the difficult early years! I will have to work out whether he really agrees or was just delighted to have her on his side (wry smile)

I think you should read this thread!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1527705-Midlife-crisis-this-is-the-script

Also, even if your marriage was absolutely worst of the worst unsalvegably awful (not saying it was btw) that still doesn't give him liscence to have an affair! If you're unhappy in your marriage you are welcome to one of two choices: 1) work to fix the marriage 2) leave the marriage. There is no secret "put your dick in someone else" third option.