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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Only two months married and miserable...

753 replies

Slundle · 07/06/2018 16:58

I can't actually believe I'm writing this post but I feel like I have to be honest somewhere...

I got married two months ago to my longterm boyfriend. We're longterm but we broke up about four times over the course of 12 years. Every time we broke up, it was me who did the breaking up.

So, married life has been terrible. Quite simply, we are not getting along. I find my husband notoriously difficult to communicate with. Regardless of what the issue is, his way of dealing with it is to scoff and shout. It's gotten to the stage where I'm not sure if I even like him all that much. We get on fine when everything is perfect but we all know, life isn't perfect.

I know it'd be easy for one of you to write 'leave him' but it really isn't that simple. We had a long, tough break-up before. I felt so brave and empowered but I came crawling back to him because I genuinely felt so lonely and I knew he loved me. I suffered with loneliness and anxiety. It's not easy being single in a couples' world. He also used the line 'I want to take care of you.' I do wonder if I'm demanding in an emotional sense (I'm not materialistic but I can be needy and he has told me that. Unfortunately I agree).

We tried couples' counselling before we married and the counsellor did not work for us...when I went for individual counselling, they very much urged me to leave him. Yet in couples' counselling, with a different counsellor, it felt like she very much took his side and felt sorry for him that I had broken it off in the past. I know there shouldn't be sides in counselling but it really felt that way...each session was like her counselling him and I was more or less in the background...he has used that as ammunition against me.

Anyway, there's a lot of detail left out here but the reason I'm posting is I would really like to hear from people in similar situations:

  • Have any of you had a rocky start to marriage?
  • Have any of you managed to turn your marriage around?
  • Did any of you end a marriage where there was no-one else involved (I know it's common to leave someone for someone else but I'm just genuinely very unhappy).

Anyhow, thanks for reading. I really appreciate that. My stress levels have gone through the roof and I'm angry at myself for letting my life turn out this way. As far as my friends and family are concerned, I'm happy as Larry. If only they saw the daily arguing that goes on behind closed doors.

OP posts:
bibliomania · 15/06/2018 17:21

I stuck my marriage out for 18 months because I was afraid of loss of face. Looking back nearly a decade later, I can't that 18 months of horrible experiences were worth it for the dubious benefit of there being slightly less gossip, but I do know what it feels like, OP.

To be very pragmatic, you've said you want dcs and it's clearly not a good idea to have them with him, so it's worth bearing in mind that every month with him is a wasted month.

I'm truly not intending to harangue you, OP. I know it's a process and you have to work your way through it. You're so much stronger than you think you are.

Slundle · 15/06/2018 17:28

@lisasimpsonssaxophone I know you're right. I just don't feel like my situation is bad enough to warrant taking up Women's Aid time.

@bibliomania I know you're not haranguing me and thanks. It is true, every month is a wasted month. I can't believe I'm thinking this about the person I married. If you don't mind my asking, how did it go after you left your marriage? I don't want to open up an old wound so I completely understand if you don't want to go there.

OP posts:
lisasimpsonssaxophone · 15/06/2018 17:36

I understand, Slundle. I called a domestic abuse helpline once with my ex, but the call ended up lasting about 30 seconds because I just felt too guilty for taking up their time with my situation, which I somehow didn’t feel really ‘counted’ as abuse. It’s only after a couple of years reading and posting here that I came to realise that a) it most definitely was abuse and b) I think almost all women feel the same way in that situation.

Just keep in mind that your counsellor - a professional with no reason to be biased - has suggested Women’s Aid after hearing about your relationship for the first time. Think about how you might react if you listened to a friend telling you the same story. And just keep that WA number handy in case you ever do feel like calling it.

Like biblomania I’m not trying to pressure you because I know how hard it is. It took me years to get out! But you are listening and not making excuses for him and that’s a great first step.

MsPavlichenko · 15/06/2018 17:41

Very few abusers are abusive all the time. Often they are charming. Your DH is like your DfF in that they are both abusive. You are managing the abusive much as your DM has done and is doing. Albeit differently.

Please contact WA . Why not ? It d[esn't commit you to anything other than listening.

Your DH wont change. It will escalate . Your counsellor cannot promise anything as regards to your safety btw. Your DH may well not be violent ever but no one can guarantee that. In fact your situation has become more dangerous now that you have confronted him if he feels his control is slipping.

bibliomania · 15/06/2018 17:45

I don't mind talking about it all! How did it go when I left? Do you mean how did exH behave or how has my life gone?

Considering exH regularly told me how awful I was, you'd think he'd be glad when I took myself off, eh? (In the same way as if your H finds so your movements in bed so awful, shouldn't he appreciate having the bed to himself? Set the poor man free!)

Life since then has been much better. I did make the mistake of having a dc with my ex, so while I'm free, she continues to be hurt by him. It's also stopped me making any real efforts to find a new man, partly because I enjoy being single, but partly because dd's life is complicated enough, and I don't want to add to it.

Gruffalina72 · 15/06/2018 18:13

I'm sorry, but given that you very recently couldn't see that he was abusive and violent, are you really that confident your assessment of the degree of risk here is accurate? WA was suggested to you by an impartial professional. They wouldn't have suggested it if they didn't think you needed it.

Do you honestly think the women killed by their partners thought they were capable of that? Women have been murdered without a single incident of physical violence before then. Just because he hasn't yet, doesn't mean he never will. Abuse always escalates. Always.

The only reason he is calm now is because you have made no attempt to leave. He still has control of you. He doesn't need to do anything to maintain the control.

With the greatest respect you cannot possibly know that he would never hit you. I thought my partner would never rape me. I thought I'd always be safe with him. That even if he got angry and shouted at me that he'd never do anything like that. I was wrong.

You cannot know what another person is capable of, no matter how much you think you know them. You didn't think he'd abuse you either.

I don't think you appreciate how much danger you've exposed yourself to by tipping your hand. Please talk to WA before you do anything else. I don't want to read about you in the news.

HazelBite · 15/06/2018 19:30

Right Op I have read this entire thread and my advice is LEAVE NOW
Stop wasting time and effort (and money) on trying to make it work. it won't, he won't ever change and whilst he might make a tempory effort in the long run he won't be able to sustain it.

I made a hideous mistake and hung about for a whole year when I realised my marriage was'nt right (I realised the morning after the wedding!)
I just wasted time and as this was in the early 1970's oh boy was I judged, gossiped about, not included at family occasions, but I rolled with it and they all soon forgot about it.
Life is too short you just don't know what life may have in store for you if you take that leap but you know what its going to be like if you don't, and from what yu say thats not very enjoyable.
I don't want to sound harsh, but give yourself a shake, go to counselling but counselling to help with the inevitable break-up. Flowers

KataraJean · 15/06/2018 20:33

It is so hard, but you are carrying the burden of being married to an abusive man. The fact that it is not physical abuse is a red herring, he shouts at you when you try to sleep, he takes away your plate when you are eating - sleep and food are basic human rights and needs. He is stopping you fulfilling basic human needs in peace.

When you say you can hardly look back and think about your parents’ relationship, that is how I feel about mine now. The further away I get and the more I see that it was abusive, the less I want to look back. I still cannot compute that I was the abused wife. Whereas when a formed boyfriend beat me up, I KNEW that was wrong and left immediately. So who does it benefit that you/my/our understanding of domestic abuse is about physical violence, when the vast majority of domestic abuse today is about coercive control? Who gains if you do not acknowledge that the victim/survivor here is you?

But look at it this way too. Bidermann’s chart of coercion was given to me by a domestic abuse worker. You recognise your relationship in that chart. There is a whole column about how it manifests in domestic abuse. So why would your situation not warrant Women’s Aid? The only answer is that you do not fit your own picture of what an abuse victim looks like. And your H does not fit your picture of an abuser.

But none of us do, that is the thing, that is how it works because it all looks normal on the outside and so you need to bridge the gap between everyone thinking your marriage is normal (whatever that is) and the reality of it, without feeling judged or that you have somehow failed. You have not done anything wrong.

AsleepAllDay · 15/06/2018 22:50

He yells at you for wiggling a toe or coughing in bed? Honey, you deserve so much better Thanks

ScabbyHorse · 15/06/2018 23:35

Hi, have just read the whole thread. I've been in two relationships that were like this, unfortunately. Having been single a year now I can honestly say I'm happier than I've been in years, am finding out who I am, what I want, and what I need, for the first time. It is possible , there is so much out there.

lifebegins50 · 15/06/2018 23:37

It feels to me like he doesn't know or get me at all half the time

I used to feel exactly this because anything I said could be taken the wrong way.Only after I understood abuse tactics did I realise he didn't want to understand..I was not saying incoherent stuff, I was understood by everyone else.This is the crazy making behaviour as you start to analyse every conversation, replaying the arguments until your head hurts and you feel anxious.

Reality is he likes arguing, he likes making you wrong and upsetting you.
You can't relate to it because you are rational and want a mutually loving relationship...he doesn't.

Slundle · 16/06/2018 11:21

Thanks for all of your input. I appreciate it more than you could know. I'm hyper-aware of my behaviour and his at the moment and so far, today has been a 'good' day! I made him breakfast and cleaned the kitchen and he thanked me profusely.

I did recognise our relationship in the Cycle of Abuse (www.mariestopes.org.za/cycle-abuse-4-phases-abusive-relationship/). That's 100% our relationship. However, I don't fully recognise our situation in Biderman's chart and I'm sure about that. I don't feel isolated from family and friends. We do live beside his family but that's because we met here, which is where they live.

As for yelling at me for coughing or wiggling in bed, I know...that's crazy. Someone said ironically, 'set the man free' and a part of me feels like that. A friend of mine said once (when trying to define love) that her husband gets up in the middle of the night to walk her to the bathroom because she's afraid of the dark. Like, that's incredible and something I can't imagine. Her husband is a strong, masculine man. I can't imagine such tenderness from him but it's incredible to think that some people's 'behind closed doors' is actually way nicer, not worse than what we see in public.

For me, this has to be gradual...I'm still not sure I will leave. What I am sure about is that I'm taking a step back. The counsellor was excellent in pointing out that I can't change his behaviour. I've spent so many years trying to help him etc. I suppose it's not up to me to change his behaviour. The counsellor said he should be so worried about his effect on me after seeing the Cycle of Abuse and he should be making calls to sort himself out, just as I did independently. Somehow I don't think that kite will fly!

@ HazelBite, you're my hero. That can't have been easy. It's awful to think how small-minded people can be. I remember a guy in my H's wider community got divorced about 10 years and you should have heard the way he was spoken about...I didn't get it, even then...

For me right now, leaving wouldn't be the best option yet because when I left before I became even more anxious and depressed (after the initial and overwhelming relief subsided). Granted, I got in to a relationship with a narcissist shortly after breaking up with my now H! He was a piece of work. I showed a colleague an email he sent me and she was disgusted. I'm so glad I got away from him. Once I broke up with him, H didn't seem so bad by comparison.

I can't just leave and repeat past mistakes. I do need to work on self-esteem building and having a strong new base if I do leave. I just wish I had come to this before I walked down the aisle. We had fights while we were engaged but it was as though I had a finish line in sight: the wedding. I turned a blind eye.

This isn't fair on either of us and no matter what happens, I know I'd be the one painted as the b**ch if we were to divorce because that's what our culture likes to do to women.

When we broke up before at the beginning, he used to come to me in a wreck desperately begging me to come back, saying he couldn't live without me, making promises I knew he'd never keep. That was too much to take. I can't go back to all of that, even though I don't think he'd beg me back now. When it's bad now, I think it's bad for both of us. He can't be happy either...but as I said, today is a good day and I'm going to monitor it until my next counselling session as I want to see if there's some kind of pattern or what's going on.

OP posts:
KataraJean · 16/06/2018 12:41

My mistake about the Bidermann chart, I misread what you wrote in an earlier post.

Thanking you for cleaning and making breakfast is a basic courtesy.

I am glad you have a good counsellor, because in the nicest possible way, it sounds like what you need. Take care Flowers

Slundle · 16/06/2018 12:46

@KataraJean Thabks. You're right. I only wish I had gone for individual counselling sooner. My last experience of counselling (couples) wasn't great; so I was a bit put off. I do see what you're saying re basic courtesy. Someone mentioned earlier about the bar being so low & I do see some truth in that. This is all quite overwhelming. Thanks. Flowers

OP posts:
Slundle · 16/06/2018 12:47

*Thanks

OP posts:
Slundle · 16/06/2018 14:32

@AsleepAllDay You put it so well. Based on the yelling in bed alone, I should have called it quits a long time ago...I'm fairly p**sed off at myself for getting myself in to this situation. I know this isn't the only way to spend my one 'wild and precious life.' I feel like I've backed myself in to a corner. Time..

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 16/06/2018 16:21

You also got into this situation also because of what you saw at home when you were growing up. What you saw from your dad was frightening and was done to control you all. Having read some more about him in your recent posts, I am not altogether surprised that you ended up marrying your H. He is cut really from similar cloth as your dad.

Couples counselling is infact never recommended where there is abuse of any sort within the relationship and I would have advised you never to have started any such sessions with him.

I am glad you have a decent counsellor now and importantly too this person seems like someone who you can work with.

Don't let any cultural mores or outdated attitudes towards women keep you within such a marriage. It is time you started to make a planned exit from same because he will continue to keep you in that hole if you let him.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 16/06/2018 16:24

Abuse like you have described as well thrives on secrecy. Do not be his secret any longer.

AsleepAllDay · 17/06/2018 02:33

@Slundle please try to be as forgiving and compassionate towards yourself as you can. Talk to yourself like you would a close friend. Channel some of the kindness and leeway you give H to yourself

You may feel backed into a corner or stupid for being here but trust me, it doesn't have to be forever. This is a situation that you can manage and leave. You can have a whole life again. You are still young so everything is within reach

And it's a testament to your kindness that you took H back and that you even married him. Sure, other things to work out in counselling too, but you sound like someone who has optimism and faith in people & that is NOT stupid or blame worthy or bad

Abuse is what is stupid, bad, something to be angry at, wrong. Never you

Slundle · 17/06/2018 10:05

Thanks @AsleepAllDay! Another argument this morning which couldn't just have been spoken!

I don't think he can handle my emotional needs and I don't think he's capable of loving discussion. I'm sad about this reality!

He brought up something from ten years ago the other day. I said this morning that it upset me and then he launched in to me for being negative and not being able to let things go & how I too have brought up things from the past. It's as though he expects me to be a robot.

Writing here has really helped.

I get such good feedback in work & from friends; yet if I were to believe him, I'm this negative, picky, unbearable person.

OP posts:
Gruffalina72 · 17/06/2018 11:05

Yes. That is because he is trying to destroy any self esteem you might have so that you'll never be able to leave. So that you will believe his treatment is the best you could ever expect, that nobody would ever love you, and therefore won't see the point of trying to leave.

It's clearly worked.

He's not misguided. He is deliberately abusive.

He doesn't lose his temper. He kicks off when you don't do what he wants.

It's really sad that your idea of a good day is of you bending over to be perfect and work as his maid without him kicking off at you.

No abuser will use every single one of the possible abusive tactics available. That doesn't mean he's not hideously abusive! You still seem to be grasping at anything, however flimsy, to "prove" that he isn't that bad.

He is abusing you. That is as bad as it gets. I am disturbed that your counsellor is talking about him getting help to "sort himself out". That is not how abuse works.

Abuse is a deliberate choice. It's not an anger issue or inadvertent or accidental. It is a deliberate choice.

The only reason you're struggling to see and accept that right now is because abuse is all you have ever known your whole life. You don't have a non-abusive baseline to compare any of this to.

I used to know someone who confronted her abusive partner similarly to you. He told her he would change and went off and did a course. He used that course to learn how to refine his tactics, and came back even more abusive and manipulative, and even better than he had been before at pulling the wool over everybody else's eyes. He became even more controlling and hurtful, but in more subtle ways. She eventually left him.

This is why reputable perpetrator programmes work with the women as well to teach them to identify abuse and the mind games used, and generally will not accept perpetrators who are still in a relationship with the person they were abusing. They need to be committed to changing for their own benefit, not as a way of keeping control of their partner.

You are right that you need to work on sorting your own head out so you can protect yourself from other abusers. Part of that will be learning about abuse and spotting the subtle signs and forms as well as our social/cultural conditioning (Freedom Programme), part of that will be counselling.

But you should be aware now there is only so far you can go while you're still living with him, with him undermining the work you are trying to do, making you question your own mind, and breaking you down. It gets to a point where it feels like your head is in a washing machine, spinning wildly between his make believe version of reality, and the truth you have been learning.

It is ok if you don't feel able to leave now, just don't hide your head in the sand.

If he loved you at all he would have left to protect you from his abuse. A person who loves you would never abuse you like he does. This isn't love.

You sound kind, smart, caring, determined, brave, compassionate, resourceful... My goodness, you could build such a happy, beautiful life for yourself one day. I really hope you get there.

Slundle · 17/06/2018 11:58

Gruffalina72 Your final sentences brought me to tears...thank you.

I'll admit I'm confused...I remember very early on, we were out one night and I wore a dupe of a designer dress. I got numerous compliments all night and I felt like a million bucks! Afterwards, he told me that he didn't think the dress suited me. I, feeling great, asked why and that everyone had complimented it. He said he wasn't sure why, maybe the colour. So, I got rid of the dress. To this day, I wish I had kept it!

I do hear myself saying, 'he's not all bad' because he isn't. He does tell me when I look well but he has also pointed out fat on my stomach by grabbing it or suggesting I not wear certain clothes because they're 'unforgiving' or asking if certain clothes still fit me (when he knows they don't). Yet, he compliments me too but I've started to feel like this isn't the relationship I want. It's all getting almost too clear. So clear that I feel like any combination of the following: a horrible person, a failure, an idiot, an embarrassment to my family. There is nothing in any of this that feels liberating. I just wish I could run away and hide!

I wish I had found this forum while we were broken up. I wish I hadn't listened to my cousin's well-meaning but ill-advised advice. She said it'd be hard for me to meet someone new because I wanted children and it'd be straight in to domesticity and she couldn't see how that could practically happen. Yet I've spent the last two years with H now and still don't have any of those things...I wish I had had more self-assurance instead of always blindly following my cousin's advice.

However, I know I need to accept where I'm at and work from here...we were mismatched from the start. In my heart, I know why we got together. It wasn't because we were right for one another. It was because I loved the attention he showed me. I loved how forward he was in pretty much insisting we'd be a couple and in his repeated attempts to get me to be with him. That, to me, felt like love because my ex was so meek and shy.

Thanks for allowing me to use this forum as a sounding board. I know it must be frustrating reading my posts and thinking, 'just LEAVE.' I'm so used to talking him up to other people that I don't know how I'll go from that to revealing the reality of this unhappy marriage. Thanks to anyone who read this. You are Stars.

OP posts:
GreenTulips · 17/06/2018 12:03

You see your last paragraph is how you let people down - not about how sad you'd feel or how you'd manage or where you'd live, but your thoughts are for others.

You are a nice person - but it's making you unhappy.

You really need to decide what you want and the people who love you will accept that. They want you to be happy.

My kids make mistakes, do the wrong thing and yet I'm here for them whenever they need suppprt because that is what we do whatever their age

Think only if yourself.

Go for a temporary separation and give yourself some head space - you know what you don't want. And that's this marriage

Itscurtainsforyou · 17/06/2018 12:14

You're not a horrible person, an idiot, a failure or an embarrassment.

You're someone coming to terms with the fact they're being emotional abused, you're standing up for yourself and saying "no more".

That is admirable and any sensible person should see that. But it doesn't matter what they think. This is your life and you don't deserve to be miserable.

NotDavidTennant · 17/06/2018 13:03

I have one friend who is single and none who are divorced..crazy eh? I wouldn't dare tell the one who is single about any of this because I think it would further break her belief in men.

I know that this was meant as a jokey, throwaway comment, but it struck me that it really epitomises the extent to which you seem to centre the feelings and opinions of others in your thinking. Your instinct is that protecting your friend's feelings about men is more important than your own need to receive support from her.

I'm pointing this out as I suspect it's something that's preventing you from putting your own needs first here.

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