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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Gaslighting - is it intentional?

130 replies

AlwaysIroning · 30/05/2018 02:57

Just discovered (via MN) the term gaslighting, my DH has been messing with my head for years, I had just put it down to his age + low IQ, but now starting to wonder if it's all a bit more sinister and manipulative. This is an example of what happened tonight (one of two incidents actually). Background: I was in a park carpark today, a young lady came into the carpark to find her car damaged by fire and what looked to be the charred remains of a vehicle next to her car.

Me: So that car that was damaged by fire in the car park today, I saw on Twitter that there was a massive car fire and the fire brigade came to put it out. I would have expected that the fire brigade would have taken the registration number of the lady’s car, passed it on to police so that they could inform her of what happened so she could inform her insurance company.
DH: Not necessarily, the reg plate was probably burned out.
Me: No it wasn’t, I saw it.
DH: But you said it was completely burned out.
Me: No, that was the other car, the car I’m talking about was next to it and damaged by the fire.
DH: But you were talking about the burned out car.
Me: No I wasn’t, I was talking about the damaged car.
DH: But you didn’t make that clear.
Me: I told you that there was nothing left of the burned out car, it’s the car that was damaged that I’m concerned about.
DH: You were talking about the burned out car.
Me: (increasingly frustrated but not raising my voice) No I wasn’t, my concern was with the woman who returned to her car to find it damaged by fire, if that happened to me I would expect that the fire brigade would have passed on details to the police so that they could contact me with all the information I need to inform my insurance company.
DH: Was there a crime committed?
Me: Well I don’t know what happened.
DH: But you said there was a crime committed.
Me: No I didn’t.
DH: You said the police should be involved therefore a crime was committed.
Me: No I didn’t, I said that the fire brigade could have informed the police so that the owner of the damaged vehicle was made aware and she could call her insurers with full details. That is what I would expect if I was the owner of the vehicle.
DH: If it was a shed that set on fire and damaged the vehicle, would you seek to sue the owner of the shed?
Me: Well, I would expect someone to inform me about the damage to my vehicle caused by a fire that wasn’t anything to do with me and if the fire brigade attended then I would expect them to inform the relevant authorities.
DH: You’re saying a crime has been committed, but what crime has been committed? You’re supposed to be a lawyer!
Me: I never said that. (Walks out of room calmly - no voice raised at any point)
DH: (Follows me out) You’re having a go at me, I’m agreeing with you, what’s your problem?
Me: No problem.
DH: Look, sorry if I’ve upset you, you’re overreacting, I was agreeing with you, I don’t see what your problem is.
Me: I’m fine. I was just trying to have a conversation with you.
DH: Well what are you having a go at me for then? I was trying to have a conversation with you too. I was agreeing with you and then you get all aggressive with me.

•NB AT NO POINT DID I GET AGGRESSIVE

Is he intentionally messing with my head or what?

OP posts:
5LeafClover · 03/06/2018 08:59

No matter what you call his knobbish behavior it sounds horrible to live with. You shouldn't have to negotiate with him for fair treatment. You deserve better and it's good to ask yourselwhats going on and why. Keep going OP. Is it in in his interest to keep you down and at home? Make a one day at a time back to work plan. Maybe call women's aid or read 'the verbally abusive relationship' by Patricia (something, can't remember).? You might be able to get counseling if you speak to your doctor? Good luck.

PeppermintPasty · 03/06/2018 09:00

That one example of what he did re your daughter would be enough, what an utter bastard.

You are not trapped, you might feel it as you contemplate freedom at the start of this journey, but that feeling will soon pass when you start taking control of your life, start taking some of the power back.

Go and see a lawyer, for a start. Get your ducks in a row, this is no way to live, he sounds absolutely dreadful.

honeylulu · 03/06/2018 09:18

The impression I get us that he's angry with you and punishing you for upsetting the status quo by losing your job and role as the main provider.
I may be wrong but either way his treatment of you is appalling. He should be supporting and comforting you at a time like this.

Lizzie48 · 03/06/2018 09:21

He sounds really horrible, and to me it does sound like gaslighting, making you doubt your sanity in this way. Anyway whatever it's gaslighting or not, it's definitely verbal abuse. That incident with your DD was truly shocking. This is a very unhealthy environment for you and your DC to live in.

MellowMelly · 03/06/2018 09:51

He sounds like he enjoys what he is doing to you and it gives him a power trip. It sounds exhausting for you.
You wrote ‘The thought of being free from him is blissful’. There’s your motivation right there. Like other posters have said you need to rebuild your self esteem etc... and when you are ready make plans to leave him, if you so wish, but keep them quiet.
It is hard. I’ve recently left a relationship like this and it was definitely worth it!

ittakestwo · 03/06/2018 16:06

Start making plans to leave. It will be worth it I promise. There is nothing worse than have someone slowly mess with your head to the point you are doubting yourself and lose all confidence. You owe it to yourself and your children to live the best life you can. Can you hand on heart say you are doing that?

ittakestwo · 03/06/2018 16:08

If you need support it’s out there or post on here. But please dig deep and find that strength you won’t regret it.

AlwaysIroning · 03/06/2018 22:49

Thanks again everyone. I think you're right, I do need to move on from this relationship. I've said to myself for years that there's no way I would be with him still if it wasn't for the kids. I tried to get myself in the frame of mind today, after reading your posts, to prepare to leave. Initially it felt like a massive relief. For 5/10 minutes. Then my anxiety went through the roof and it's been like that for the rest of the day. I cant function like that, and my priority has to be to get a job as my own money is running short and I can't rely on him for money, I don't have access to anything except a joint account which just covers household bills. So I don't think I can do anything right now, except perhaps to start laying some long term exit plans. I need to find a job firstmost and foremost. That said, it's a horrible atmosphere at home. We're still not speaking, he spent the entire day in our room and then texted me (I was downstairs) to say he was going out at 8pm (that's the third night in a row - and he also texted me to say he has 2 work leaving dos this week). No idea where he is, so allsorts of stuff is going through my head, and he's still got FindMyIphone turned off from when he switched it off when he went off with our daughter the other night.

OP posts:
AlwaysIroning · 03/06/2018 22:49

Thanks again everyone. I think you're right, I do need to move on from this relationship. I've said to myself for years that there's no way I would be with him still if it wasn't for the kids. I tried to get myself in the frame of mind today, after reading your posts, to prepare to leave. Initially it felt like a massive relief. For 5/10 minutes. Then my anxiety went through the roof and it's been like that for the rest of the day. I cant function like that, and my priority has to be to get a job as my own money is running short and I can't rely on him for money, I don't have access to anything except a joint account which just covers household bills. So I don't think I can do anything right now, except perhaps to start laying some long term exit plans. I need to find a job firstmost and foremost. That said, it's a horrible atmosphere at home. We're still not speaking, he spent the entire day in our room and then texted me (I was downstairs) to say he was going out at 8pm (that's the third night in a row - and he also texted me to say he has 2 work leaving dos this week). No idea where he is, so allsorts of stuff is going through my head, and he's still got FindMyIphone turned off from when he switched it off when he went off with our daughter the other night.

OP posts:
ittakestwo · 03/06/2018 22:54

Don’t worry where he is use this time to start making plans.
Open a bank account in your name.
Get the child benefit etc paid into it.
Update your CV etc.
It took me nearly four years but I wasn’t focused and didn’t have all the advise on mumsnet.
Just play the game with him for now, stay focused on your new future. It won’t happen overnight.

RabbitsAreTasty · 03/06/2018 23:20

What part of it made you anxious?

lifebegins50 · 03/06/2018 23:27

Are you being treated for depression? It is worth seeing a GP/ ensuring you eat well/avoid alcohol and exercise, even of its walking.

Is your H a reasonable earner? Actually getting a divorce under these circumstances might not be the worst idea.Can you see a solicitor?.
I suspect your H has started to devalue you based on your "use" to him.He may have liked the status you previously provided.

Twopointsforhonesty · 03/06/2018 23:33

Ex DH was like this. But he turned out to be high functioning ASC.

daffodillament · 03/06/2018 23:39

Now he sounds like hard work !

SkinniesAreOver · 03/06/2018 23:42

He sounds like my x. My x used to put me up in the dock and make me explain myself all the time but it went round in circles. He also took my words and repeated them back to me with a different meaning somehow. I do not regret leaving him. I worried that I would, before I left I mean. I worried that I'd have ''burnt my bridges'' as he always used to say ''if you leave don't even think about coming back''. So I left and I felt relief. He begged me to come back ............. because here's the thing, being an ARSEHOLE to somebody else, making them answer to you, making them feel answerable to you, making them justify their thought processes and prove their observations to you; that is an excellent coping mechanism and a good power trip to boot.

LiteraryDevil1 · 03/06/2018 23:49

Not sure he's got the intelligence to gaslight. He sounds as thick as pig shit.

AlwaysIroning · 03/06/2018 23:54

What part of it made you anxious?

The money. Finances. Not having the means to live.

OP posts:
welshmist · 04/06/2018 00:01

How old are you and how old is he?

tigercub50 · 04/06/2018 00:11

Twopointsforhonesty, what is ASC?

AlwaysIroning · 04/06/2018 00:11

Are you being treated for depression?

I was having CBT when I still had private medical cover. Had a mare with the NHS. I was on the waiting list for over 12 months. I'd phone and email them and beg, but nothing. I did have a really good GP, but she left and now it's impossible to get an appointment at my practice, they just ask you to self-refer (which I have - still on waiting list as per above). In addition, we did some time ago get referred (through self referral again) for couples counselling, but after the initial consultation they turned us down. They said that because I wasn't able to tick all the boxes on their form they couldn't work with us. Their tick boxes just didn't fit my situ at the time, so because they couldn't squeeze our/my particular situation into a box they showed is the door. Which of course then I felt really guilty about. But now I feel v cross about it, because I spoke at length to the counsellor about his "gaslighting" (I wasn't aware of the term then) but she turned us away and I felt like it was my fault.

OP posts:
AlwaysIroning · 04/06/2018 00:12

How old are you and how old is he?

I'm 46, he's 54.

OP posts:
tigercub50 · 04/06/2018 00:21

I don’t think it’s gaslighting but it sounds awful! Reminds me of how DH could be in the past ( not anymore thank God). He would pick fights out of absolutely nothing & I would end up an emotional wreck, completely bewildered. I had allsorts of theories, one being that he hadn’t dealt with the death of his Dad ( a few years before we met). I put up with WAY too much, partly because my own self - esteem is low. I still get angry sometimes that I let it go on for so long & will probably go for counselling.
Sorry OP, I haven’t helped. I’m with many others, in that just reading your post exhausted me & having those sort of conversations daily must be soul destroying. I hope things get better for you 💐

welshmist · 04/06/2018 00:24

AlwaysIroning Mon 04-Jun-18 00:12:54
How old are you and how old is he?

I'm 46, he's 54.

I just knew there was going to be this age gap. Once they hit 50 many men turn nastier, I do not know if it is hormonal or what but as their sexual interest wanes in you so other things bubble to the surface. I have conversations like this, you begin to doubt yourself but reading your OP you appear to have perfect recollection, I have decided to ignore these round robin arguments, you cannot win. Only you can decide if you wish to continue in this relationship.

AlwaysIroning · 04/06/2018 00:28

Is your H a reasonable earner?

When I was working I earned more than double what he did. As a result, I would pay for everything, so all my salary was used up. I didn't mind because (a) he was a devoted husband and I never even contemplated being in this position and (b) he was saving and investing his salary for what I thought would be our future. So whilst he's not a huge earner, he's invested well, he made some money out of property, and he retired a few years ago on a final salary pension (public sector) but now has another job with a higher salary than he ever had in the public sector plus annual bonus (and another pension pot). I do feel very stupid and naive now, but I honestly believed that we would be together for life, he was the most devoted and trustworthy husband, things have only changed since I lost my job.

OP posts:
AlwaysIroning · 04/06/2018 00:31

Basically I do want out, but I've completely fucked myself financially.

OP posts: