Wife taking it out on me at every DD's tantrum - suggestions?

[ExhaustedFather]

Dear mummies and daddies of mumsnet, I could use some advice on a situation at home that's getting a bit out of hand. Of course I mean some constructive advice: just saying "poor you", or "it's all your fault" or "you need to understand her" without elaborating doesn't help much.

When our 3-year old girl throws up tantrums, mummy is usually the only one who can calm her; we range from situations where she doesn't explicitly ask for mummy, but only mummy can calm her (eg refusing to go to bed because she wants whatever dessert she saw on TV), to cases where she goes totally ballistic because she has decided she wants to be near mummy and finds it unacceptable that mummy might be having a shower without her.

I have tried all I could think of: distracting our daughter with songs books toys, offering some milk or a babyccino, hugging her to comfort her, talking about inviting her best friend or her cousins over, etc. The only thing that works is pulling out a mobile and showing something on youtube, but I don't do that anymore as she seems addicted to it, and her reaction when I try to switch it off is even worse (withdrawal syndrome, almost).

The typical cycle is: kid throwing up a tantrum with parents, followed by wifey taking it out with hubby (me) and using me as kind of emotional punching bag.

Wifey's typical comments are along the lines of: what do I even need a husband for, I'm practically a single mum, why do I even have you in the house, all you do is bring a salary home, etc.

I always point out that it would be in my interest to be able to calm our daughter, because if I did I wouldn't get the double earache of daughter crying in my ears + wifey taking it out on me, and my life would be oh so much better. When I try to say this, and ask her: ok, what do you want me to do? Calm her by myself? I'd love to, but how? Reason with her? If you have found a way to reason with a toddler, you're in for a Nobel prize! Yes, it's unfair, yes, it sucks, no, I probably can't imagine what it must really mean for you... but, realistically, what can I do?

I work longer hours than my wife, typically arrive home 2 hours after her, so it's inevitable that our daughter spends more time with her than with me. Maybe if I were a stay at home dad things would be different, but neither that nor getting a 9-5 job closer to home are realistic options for now.

Thoughts? Thanks!

Does n't sound as if you really want solutions, just to be told you are right. surely with lighter mornings/longer evenings you can manage a quick walk, trip to play area and so n, or wait to shower until after bedtime? Tbh I'm feeling sorry for you neighbours as undoubtedly the sound of your conflicts will be impacting on them too. Have you the resources to move to somewhere more family friendly?

I don't think there's anything left to say, other than OP you're clearly a perfect husband and perfect father and the problem here is your wife and child.
Thats clearly what you want to hear, since you shoot down every suggestion at how to improve your communication and parenting.

Wife is spoilt.

Daughter is following suit.

MN don't like it when a man is quite eloquent.

Let the tantrums play out.

Yes of course your wife would have liked going out with friends. But what about spending time with her?

Either way, you need to ask her and talk to her to get very specific solutions. She wouldn’t throw out phrases like what’s the point of having a husband unless something was really bothering her.

Actually the crux of the problem seems to be your dd not wanting comfort from you. Both my ds were very much mummy's boys (still are but are happy with dh too now) . How we solved it was reiterating how Daddy was here. Explaining Mummy is going for a shower, I will be back soon, Daddy is here. But the positive phrasing needs come from your wife as well as you. Also need to spend some one to one time with her.
Rather than dealing with it in the heat of the moment, agree a strategy before you know it is going to happen. So when wife wants a shower, take daughter out for a walk round the block. Or get a storybook out, half an hour before she wants to go. Wife needs to explain Daddy will help you while I go for a shower. Sloping off obviously doesn't work.
Good luck.

OP living in a flat does not prevent you going for a walk/cycle/playground etc. If anything choosing to stay cooped up in a small space will make you all more stressed - just go out the front door and keep going.

Having a captive audience always prolongs tantrums, so being on a train or in a queue can be tricky. But at home you ALWAYS have the option to remove the child from the situation.

Okay, what strikes me is you seem to be focussing attention on the upset and discussing what mummy's doing and when she'll be back. I think you'd be more successful if you acknowledge how she's feeling briefly but then persist in trying to distract her attention elsewhere. Yes if necessary physically pick her up and give her a cuddle and take her away to sit on the sofa with you. And have a book ready to read to her. (Or lego, or suggest drawing a picture for mummy, or tablet games, or whatever's most likely to get her attention.) And if she keeps escaping pick her up and put her back. You can be more stubborn than a 3 yr old.

3 is plenty old enough to understand. And I'd suspect it's a learned behaviour, 3 is rather old for separation anxiety. She's learned that fuss gets her let into the bathroom. You need to change that rule. Let her know the new rules in advance before shower time. Get her attention, tell her it's not kind to bother mum in the shower, does she want to sit quietly and have the story here or will you have to carry her over to the sofa? Follow up. Agree with your wife also in advance that you will be sticking to your guns.

I do get that it's incredibly frustrating when they constantly want the other parent. If you're consistent they will be fine with it though. And don't worry, there will be phases when you're the desirable one!

The sad truth is that, as a daddy, you have to go the extra mile. Where your wife could divert tantrums in the house, it is going to have to be you two that go out. Right out, not the garden, like I'm talking the park or soft play or to visit the horses or wherever you want. Just far far away from mummy. Giving her an hour on her own regularly will massively, massively improve her mood. I guarantee she will use it to sort the house out, but from a mental health point of view, it is essential. Ditto shower, take her out the door. The garden, or if raining you shut the bedroom door and do crazy daddy spinning in the air games etc. Same with sleep, you have to read approx five more stories, play gentle music, walk and rock etc. It's doubtless more work. BUT the difference is you don't have a loveable limpit attached to you 24/7, so it is doable. And trust me, think of the long term. Letting dd into the shower may feel like helping stop her tears short term, but do you not think persistent arguments between parents, which is the inevitable corollary, is worse for her?

The issue is your DD learning that the screaming will eventually lead to mum appearing from somewhere.

I have followed the thread since posting, but I may have forgotten what’s been said already so apologies if you’ve already tried OP..

Has your wife ever tried not responding? That doesn’t mean that you also ignore your child, but that your wife trusts and leaves you to your devices.

You’ve had advice not to lock your dd in a room etc but have you tried removing her before your wife gets into the shower? Into another room to begin play etc. I also think when people are suggesting taking her out they mean maybe walking to a shop or something before your wife actually gets into the shower. That way your dd isn’t realising that her mum is going somewhere.

The issue is created with a disagreement between the two of you on how to respond. Your wife needs to try and follow through on the agreements made during the calm before the storm.

It may be a silly suggestion, but you could try getting a shower radio, so she can’t actually hear the crying as much. This might help her to not respond as much.

Is your dd behaviour only like this when your wife is in the house but unavailable? What is she like when wife goes to the shop or out?(You mentioned she’s behaved fine when your wifes been away so not sure what her initial reaction is) If she’s fine, then have you tried saying that mum is going out, and not letting her see where she actually is?

Emotionally blackmailing a 3 yo to stop her tantrumming has to be one of the most ridiculous things I've heard. "Please don't do this because Mummy will be cross"?

@Tartanscarf is truly a voice of reason here.

IntoTheFloodAgain the shower radio is a good suggestion, but didn't work in my case - I kept thinking I could hear wailing/whinging Behind the noise of the radio and shower, even when there was nothing to hear when I switched them off!

I may have been losing it a bit, in retrospect.

My kids were a nightmare when little and their dad was around because if they whined they got what they wanted. So my.home went from a peaceful, happy home as I had clear boundaries and they knew whining and strumming would get them nowhere, to constant crying and whining when their dad was around.

I suggest that you have an activity that you both do when you get home from work that she can look forward to. Painting or going to the park or whatever you both enjoy. Then have a treat night once a a week watching a film with popcorn. Let that be your thing with dd that also gives your wife a break.

Also, children are easily distracted. So instead of saying no or telling them off, offer on a really excited voice something else.

one suggestion is to spend more time with your dd alone, so dd does not have dw to run to, and dw is not on edge waiting for it to go wrong. hopefully that will help dw to get a break and feel less stressed. and you get to work out how to calm her without fdeeling that dw is looking over your shoulder.

@tartanscarf, why would I be coming across like a real twat now?
We didn't "involve" psychologists. We just mentioned this to two friends who happen to be child psychologists, and who offered their opinion - which is of course very different from treating a friend or relative, that's clearly a big no no.

@TheHumanMothBoy, I did not mean to emotionally blackmail our child. I made a mistake. I recognised it as such. I am not proud of it. I haven't done it again. I was simply trying to be honest about what happened, which means not omitting one's mistakes.

@Somerville, I want to be told I am right with what? It's not like I have a solution I want others to approve of - I don't have any. Also, as for being perfect, see above: I have been very transparent about my mistakes, recognising them as such. I am not shooting down every suggestion - I am shooting down the suggestions, like that of @Tawdrylocalbrouhaha, that at home you ALWAYS have the option to remove the child from the situation.". How the [insert a random profanity here] would that work, exactly? Yes, I get it that having daughter-father time is important for our bonding, and that it will give my wife time for herself, etc. I try to do it. I could do it more often. I will try to do it more often. But one of the questions is: what are the real options once the mega tantrum starts? Any solution that does not involve me physically restraining our daughter or locking the two of us in another room will result in the child making her way to the bathroom door and knocking on it like her life depended on it. Any. Single. Solution. If the point is that more daughter-father time will help, fine, but if people think that I really have the option to 'remove the child from the situation' then they are deluded, have no clue what I am talking about, cannot relate to situations they haven't witnessed directly, we speak different languages and cannot understand each other, or some combination of the above. Take her to another room? Videocall the grandparents? Videocall her cousin? Put on one of her favourite songs? Try to play? Take her 'for a walk' in the communal part of the building? Tried all of those, they ALL result in our child knocking on the front door of our property (or of the bathroom if we're inside) like her life depended on it.

If I ignore being crucified for the choice of vocabulary or of gifts and financial arrangements (by people who do not seem to have the mental flexibility required to understand that most things in life are subjective, and others may love what they hate, and viceversa), there have been useful comments I am thankful for.
I hadn't inititally thought of counselling, but it's something we should consider. I agree that some outbursts, like what's the point of having a husband etc, are signs of bigger problem and a bigger dissatisfaction which we must get to the bottom of and cannot simply ignore.

As many have rightly said, a big part of the problem is that, while we both agree on not giving in to tantrums when she wants a new toy or whatever, for this kind of separation anxiety it's different: to me it's very similar to a tantrum for buying a toy, in the sense that I am afraid that giving in will just lead her to associate "I cry - they do what I want", while my wife doesn't agree, and feels that, unlike with tantrums for a new toy or more cake etc, in these occasions she really needs to comfort our daughter. This is one of the first points to tackle. Am I right in understanding that most mothers here would agree that letting our daughter in the shower room is a mistake? Would any one disagree? Would you know of any 'theory', even if you don't agree with it, that would suggest letting the daughter in the shower room might be a good idea? Not trying to score points here, just trying to understand the possible pros and cons of each decision.

If you want to continue grilling me for my choice of vocabulary of gifts, by all means do so, but don't expect any more replies. If, however, you can and want to be helpful, elaborating on the previous points would be most appreciated. Thanks.

You do need to get your wife onside yes.

I remember a time when I had to switch quite deliberately from "she's only a baby and needs her mum" to "I need to give my child opportunities to learn resilience and coping skills". There is a time when separation anxiety is something that you "treat" by just cuddling and being close. But there's a time when a growing kid needs more room to learn than that. Every child is different but 3.5 is plenty old enough tbh unless there are special needs involved. DD will go to school soon. Your wife needs to be able to shower. You all need to give DD some chances to grow up here.

Your wife needs to understand that if she wants a calm shower she needs to accept there will be some screaming involved. And that part of being a parent is teaching a child to cope with separation.

You WILL have to restrain your DD. That's part of parenting. I had to hold my DS down on the floor for 18 months worth of toothbrushing. Now he's a dream with his teeth. That's parenting.

Your wife is free to let DD into the shower room but it will extend the behaviour.

It's up to her what she wants and what trade offs she will make.

@tartanscarf, trying to call her cousin was simply an attempt at distracting her, not asking the audience. If I ignore her she'll go knocking on the bathroom door, so that is only an option if my wife gets on board with the idea that ignoring her is the best course of action.

Thank you for being so helpful - most appreciated. Any more * pearls of wisdom to share?

My lo wants mummy for everything he will often push my dh away. It's tiring but I don't take it out on dh, it's very normal for a child to have a preference and in a way I'm happy that's it's me. There's loads on the internet about it and from I've read they grow out of it. Your wife needs to just wait it out and stop blaming you as it's not fair. Perhaps show her some articles about it so she can see how normal it is?

You pick up your 3 year old and remove her to another location. No random profanity required.

I also have a 3 year old who throws tantrums. I also live in a flat. You certainly don't need to take my advice, but I'm not the one getting agitated and somewhat abusive with strangers who are trying to help.