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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

(Possible content warning) Consent when one person is withholding information

79 replies

Asking4AFriend · 12/03/2018 17:59

This is a bit of a weird one, but it's something pretty minor that happened to me 7 or 8 years ago and is mostly forgotten except every six months or so it unexpectedly comes to mind and doesn't sit well with me. It's not something I want associated with my normal user name, so am just using an old throw away one.

I was in a long distance relationship with a guy I had been friends with for a long time, we'd moved apart, then got back in touch and things really hit off. I went to stay with him for a couple of weeks, then he came to stay with me, then me to him etc. It wasn't a long relationship, but it felt fairly intense at the time as we were talking every day/every other day.

Then he was due to come stay with me; I'd just moved house and was going through some hard times at work. He'd been a bit quiet, but I had thought it was me not having a phone line or internet for a week or so due to the move. His visit was delayed a couple of days due to some family stuff, but then he was there. I was probably too naive to realise that he hadn't just left his stuff in the car to get it later, but he actually wasn't planning on staying as planned.

We had sex twice, hung out and did things, then he dropped the old 'I think we should call it a day and just be friends.' I, a bit blindsided, was all fawning and 'yes, sure let's stay friends'.

Of course we didn't. I haven't heard from him since, esp as I dropped him from my social media a few months after we broke up and I realised that the friends thing was bullshit.

Obviously at the time of the sex I was ready, willing, and clearly consented, however had I known that he was planning to dump me that afternoon I almost certainly wouldn't have consented to a last shag.

I'm not trying to make myself out to be a victim of some gaslighting sexual predator, I'm just trying to work out in my head how much of an utter shitbag this guy was. Or is it fairly standard to withhold the truth in order to get your end away before dumping someone?

OP posts:
TripTrapTripTrapOverTheBridge · 12/03/2018 18:07

I think your title and your 'warning' are so over the top it's almost offensive.

Yes,he either duped you or decided you weren't a match after you slept with him. If the former, he's a total arse, if it's the latter then you should've considered that before it happened - mumsnet says it's ok for women to dump due to 'bad sex' so it must be ok for men too.

AnyFucker · 12/03/2018 18:10

Hmm

Men have been lying to get into a pair of knickers since time immemorial.

I hardly think your thread title requires a warning. I would say most sexually active women have had their hat nailed on in this way

It doesn't make it right but it doesn't make it rape.

unintentionalthreadkiller · 12/03/2018 18:12

I think you're being a but over the top.

AdalindSchade · 12/03/2018 18:15

It's shitty behaviour. I have had a guy do that to me - in fact he tried to persuade me to do anal knowing he didn't plan on seeing me again afterwards Hmm but it doesn't negate consent, not really. When we decide to have sex we have to accept that we don't know what is in our partners' heads or lives really and there is always a risk of not being on the same page. It is very unethical and crap though.

WomanInTheMirrorStaresAtMe · 12/03/2018 18:18

Why do you think this needs a warning? You consented to and had sex. What came after is horrible for you, but hardly a crime. Perhaps something happened during the sex that put him off, or maybe he planned it? Or maybe he had an epiphany and knew he had to leave? Or maybe he is a spy/ time traveller/ super hero/ married and knew it was not to be and this was his emotional goodbye to you? Who knows? But other than break your heart, and maybe be a bit of a twat I don't think he did anything illegal?

category12 · 12/03/2018 18:39

Falls into the category of unpleasant tosspot, but nothing sinister.

gamerchick · 12/03/2018 18:43

I think your title and your 'warning' are so over the top it's almost offensive

I know why the OP put a warning, because it’s practically necessary on this site because there’s always someone to jump to offence over the smallest of things. Cover all your arses I say!

He was a knob and it was shitty behaviour OP. Nobody likes to feel the way you do when you think someone has deliberately misled you to get what they want. It’s a nasty feeling.

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 12/03/2018 18:45

I agree with other posters - this is really a quite extreme reaction. You freely consented to have sex with him. Everyone has things they wouldn’t have done had they known the future but that’s life, really - you do what you do with the information you have.

I must admit, I thought you were going to describe one of those situations where he turned out to be a deep undercover cop or something, which is a whole other level of deception, but you had sex, you broke up. These things happen.

lecossaise · 12/03/2018 18:50

He was certainly a dick and I can see why it might affect you in the long term (I would wary of trusting men, I think), but unfortunately men being dicks is indeed "fairly standard" in my experience...

NotTheFordType · 12/03/2018 18:53

A thorough reading of the law around the issue of conditional consent
www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/rape-and-sexual-offences-chapter-3-consent
would probably benefit you here, OP.

Pay particular attention to the part that says "In reality, some deceptions (such as, for example, in relation to wealth) will obviously not be sufficient to vitiate consent."

Someone lying about their relationship status or intentions is in no way equal to a guy who agrees to use a condom and then whips it off during sex Angry

Basically, your ex is a tosser but not a rapist.

PinkHeart5914 · 12/03/2018 18:56

people have always told little lies to get in someone’s pants/knickers.

You consented to the sex, was happy to have sex and presumably enjoyed yourself as you did it twice

Yes he was a knob but that isn’t a crime

Elmosmum · 12/03/2018 19:15

Sorry you had a shitty time OP but there really is no consent issue here, he's just a knob Thanks

upsideup · 12/03/2018 19:20

Seriously?
I'm sure if people knew what they knew now about all of their ex partners then they wouldnt of consented to sex at all, thats not the point, they did consent.

Pogmella · 12/03/2018 19:22

I kind of see where you're coming from.

My ExH was having an affair and planning to leave but I caught him out. He'd initiated sex that morning. I said to him 'You know if never have consented if you'd told me you didn't love me anymore' and he agreed and started to cry.

It is an abuse of your trust. It's pretty vile behaviour.

Truthstar · 12/03/2018 19:25

Consent isn't an issue here at all.

Oysterbabe · 12/03/2018 20:01

Yeah this has nothing to do with consent.

Justdontknow4321 · 12/03/2018 20:08

You consented, that’s not the issue. He’s just abit of a twat that’s all.

Mumoftwoyoungkids · 12/03/2018 20:09

Basically, your ex is a tosser but not a rapist.

This.

I think most of us have a story along these lines in their past.

I do despite having got together with dh very young and so having very little past at all.

Tempjob · 12/03/2018 20:34

I think the OP raises a very interesting question here.

By the way, there was a case in 2010 in Israel where an Arab man was jailed for the rape of a Jewish woman. He lied about his religion and pretended he was Jewish in order to have sex with a Jewish woman, who consented, then found out he was actually Muslim: www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jul/21/arab-guilty-rape-consensual-sex-jew

Original poster
Asking4AFriend · 12/03/2018 20:53

Thanks for all the replies, even the more scathing ones.

I wasn't trying to suggest my ex was a rapist, not in the slightest. I think he was a selfish fuckwit, but not a rapist. I just posted as it had recently come to mind and I guess I was just processing my thoughts on how things ended.

For those who disagree with my content warning, I did um and ah about it, but I figured that as there are vulnerable people on the boards I'd rather put it there than leave it.

I'm not really getting how it has nothing to do with consent when it seems clear to me that he must have known that I wouldn't have had sex with him had I known his intentions. It wasn't the first time we had sex and in retrospect it seems obvious to me that he planned to end things and just felt like playing along so he could get a last shag before walking away. I clearly did consent at the time of the deed, but that was only because I wasn't privy to the same information as him.

Didn't expect to get my arse handed to me quite so vehemently, and it's been a bit of an eye opener to see how commonplace this behaviour is. It's hard to imagine my ds growing into a young man who thinks this sort of thing is acceptable.

OP posts:
picklemepopcorn · 12/03/2018 21:14

I kind of agree with you, OP.

It is despicable. Deceptive, manipulative and scuzzy.

I understand your bad feelings. I think the key is that you were not unhappy at the time. Yes, you wouldn't have consented if you had known, but you didn't know. So you happily had sex.

He however is a worthless chancer.

PrettyLittIeThing · 12/03/2018 21:15

This reminds me of the time my friend said she felt "raped" as a man she slept with told her he wanted a relationship then she found out later he didn't and just wanted sex. It really really isn't. And it's very weird you think about this every 6 months. And t happened 7/8 years ago?! Seriously?? Get over it. In my younger days I had men lying to get into my knickers quite a few times. It's nothing new. Seriously be glad it's only happened to you once.

Believeitornot · 12/03/2018 21:17

Well how did you know that he ended it for those reasons?

At the end of the day, you had sex with someone and he changed his mind.

It could have happened the other way around....

katieflorins · 12/03/2018 21:35

I don't think anyone should be happy "because it's only happened once" Confused even if every bloke in the world did this all the time always it wouldn't be okay.

I think I see why you mean OP. Lying to get something from someone in any other situation wouldn't be okay, so why should we just eye-roll because it's sex?

Believeitornot · 13/03/2018 06:55

But how do you know the man was lying? Yes he may be lying and yes that’s a shit thing to do, but there’s also the possibility that he realised it was a mistake and his immature response was to go awol. What if the OP had done this? I bet you that would be ok.