looks like it's over

[mylittlestar]

well after everything you will have seen so far, and my happiness at dh and i giving our marriage another go, sadly it doesn't look like that is possible anymore.

i've been feeling down the last couple of days and couldn't put my finger on it. thought it was probably a bit of paranoia. the pregnancy scare etc. but looking back dh had also become distant and withdrawn and i think i was picking up on that.

i checked his phone this morning. there was a message in his saved items to the ow. basically said of course i'll get up early to come and take you to work. i'll leave a bit early so we can have a little kiss before we set off...

confronted him. he swore he hadn't been back in touch. then has admitted that after his paranoia that i may have met someone on my work night out last week, he got back in touch with her.
don't really know much more than that and there's no point in asking as i'm not sure i could believe what he tells me anyway.

i had four main reasons for giving things another try. my love for him. the fact that anyone can make a mistake once. the fact that he swore he hated living a double life and would never want to live that way again. and finally, the fact that he said after seeing what he'd put me through, he'd never put me through that again.

just 4 weeks later he has.

to be honest i really don't want to turn this thread into a session to slag dh off. i don't understand his reasons and never will. but i do love him.

i think perhaps it's time to let my head rule my heart and make myself wake up to the fact that he doesn't love me in the same way i love him.

one day he'll realise what he's lost and what he's put me through. and i truly believe that nothing i say or do from this point on will have any impact. it's up to him now.

i've come into work to try and take my mind off it all and calm down. so i'm ok. i'm glad i have MN to get all of this out as this time i do not want one single person in RL to know. i don't want people getting at dh. i don't want people telling me 'i told you so'. i don't really want sympathy.
i'm sick of my life being one big drama after the next. i want to focus on me and ds and i want a happy quiet life filled with love and laughter. if the only way to get that is being alone with ds, then so be it. i'm truly blessed to have him.

so perhaps this thread should be about how i can now move forward without the love of my life and my soul mate....

pc was thinking exactly the same thing on the way into work this morning

have been in touch with a private relationship counsellor but not got round to booking an appointment. I will speak to dh then ring her today

thank you xx

go for it MLS.

really can't say it enought times, the depression he's suffering will be making all so much more worse for him.

get help and get it as quickly as possible.

beware tho, men tend to be very anti counselling till they go a few times then they love it!

i had relationship counselling with an abusive ex once who was very very against it all. after a few months i stopped going coz i couldn't get a bloody word in!!

MLS would agree with PC it seems the counselling really might help. Itr may also take some of the burden off you both. He will have to stop using the guilt as an excuse to not face up to what he has done and why, in turn this should help you by taking the pressure off as only he can answer those ques. You are doing amazingly well being so strong x

MLs, when you asked him about her boobs what did you want him to say? What would you have liked to hear?

This may sound harsh again, particulary because what you are going through, the questions you feel a need to ask are all perfectly natural, no one can blame you but, if you are not prepared to hear the answer, then don't ask the question.
When DH answer your questions he is probably answering as honestly as he feels he dare. It will be as uncomfrotable for him as it is for you but, he has no control whatsoever over the feelings his reply will stir within you. When you ask questions of that nature you are both in a no win situation.

MLS i have seen your photograph. You really are a beautiful woman, sophisticated and classy. I know this is so much easier said than done but please, try not to compare yourself with the OW. Your DH being unfaithful was nothing to do with the size of her boobs compared to yours, her smile, her eyes, her looks all compared to yours. It was about him. Something inside him. I don't believe it was a reflection upon you at all. You have nothing to doubt yourself for. You are a fantastic package
But again, I realise this is easy for me to say sitting on the outside looking in and I hope you don't mind me saying it. I know your self esteem amongst everything else, has taken a huge knock but believe me, it need not xx

Of course it was about me. If he had everything he wanted at home he wouldn't have needed to have an affair would he

I haven't asked that specific question, it was just an example of the sort of response I'd get. I've asked questions about what it was like with her, what he thinks of her body etc - and am prepared for what I hear. FGS if he didn't find her attractive he wouldn't have slept with her for 6 months!
The point is tha way in which he answers. Just nothing positive. Not giving me the facts and then finding a way to reassure me or tell me something he loves about me. Surely I deserve that at least.

he's completely adrift MLS, he has no clue how to answer your questions IMO.

compare it to the age old "does my bum look big in this" question. slightly tongue in cheek I know but really men can't win on that one can they? and they live in fear of being asked it!

he's in the same place. he has no idea how to respond to you and even if you tell him how he won't feel comfortable with the answer he's "supposed" to give because you've already told him how to respond iyswim.

the best you can probably hope for is something like "there must've been something but now, on reflection, i can't see why i was attracted to her"

also, in actual fact he may not have been that attracted to her but the escapism she offered and of course the string-free sex - or what he thought was going to be string free.

i totally understand your need to ask these questions but i don't think you'll ever get what you're looking for from him in this way.

you two must find other ways for him to give you the assurances and comfort and comittment that you need right now.

asking him to contrast and compare between you and the OW won't work for either of you.

tell him he needs to say at least 3 lovely things to you each day for a week. something different each day covering all aspects of you. make him really think about how wonderful you are.

Of course you deserve it. If he really wants to be with you, if he really wants this marriage to work as much as you do then he should be working just as bloody hard as you are to save it. He should be reassuring you without you having to ask.

Ive kept out of your threads for a while now because I sense you are going through the 'anger' stage. Which is totally understandable. If you want to believe that he had an affair bacause you are lacking in some way then theres nothing I or anyone else can say to change that at the moment.

You need him to reassure you, to tell you it wasn't about you but at the moment you don't seem to be getting that from him.
I just wanted to try reassure you.

Thank you

I'll leave it for a while now.

Not sure I can win whatever I do anyway.

Thanks everyone xx

You will win. You just need time and lots of love. XXX

MLS, sorry if I've said anything to upset. Reading back my post was a bit blunt - was typing fast with dd hanging off leg and trying to call solicitors!

you will win of that i'm sure.
x

PC your post was brilliant. Very eloquently put if you don't mind my saying I think it may have been my post that uspet MLS so I apologise too xx

no, nobody has upset me at all

(except dh of course!)

I guess I'm just finding it all too hard. Am going to try IOHW's technique of stepping back, withdrawing myself from the situation and stopping myself going round in circles. I want to focus on making myself happy.

If dh follows suit and starts to give me what I need then great. If he doesn't then what more can I do anyway. I can't spend the rest of my life spelling out how he can make me happy. If he can't work it out for himself then I'll have to find someone who can

I am so pleased to hear that. YES! Go for it, please do, take a HUGE step back and concentrate on you and DS. Its not easy at first but its the best thing you can do for yourself. If DH doesn't step forward and fill the space you leave for him then, you have your answer. And if he does, then thats fantastic

Sending lots of love and hugs and pats on back XXX

MLS - I'm so sorry you are finding things hard again. I just wanted to reassure you that anger is part of the grief you are feeling. See here for some of the phases. Just because you haven't actually 'lost' someone doesn't mean that you are not grieving the loss of your relationship as you saw it.

I would agree with IOHW though. Men feel scared of being asked the sort of questions we ask them. Obviously it is natural to want to know you were better in every way to the OW, but he is in a no-win situation whichever way he answers the questions. If he says she was attractive etc you feel rejected. If he says she wasn't, you think, 'So why did you go with her?'

Please try not to ask these sorts of questions because they will hurt you more than you need to be hurt. I know it is cutting you up inside, but he didn't have the affair because she is better than you. He cocked up - pure and simple.

And, don't expect him to be able to read your mind. He is only a man () and needs to be told to look after you. He is probably hoping that this stage will just fade away and that you will 'move on', because it is something he would just rather forget! Simple creatures sometimes I'm afraid. Men don't have the urge to analyse everything -he is probably hoping to be able to just carry on as normal. Whilst your female friends and MNers will understand your need to know everything, he probably just wants to crawl under a stone until it has all died away.

You must decide eventually whether you can forgive him. If you can, then you need to just do it. That will not be something you can do at the moment. You will need to reach the 'acceptance' stage of your grief. We will all hold your hand through this anger stage. Don't make any life altering decisions until you get through this.

xx

Thanks Dior. Thank you so much xx

You know we are here for you.

MLS

Your dh and his reaction is SOOOOOOOOOOO like how my dh reacted. It took him a good few months to really "wake up" and focus on me and the children and not dwell on her! That hurt as you know!
He only really got his act together when he put himself into counselling- I knew we'd turned the corner then. he was able to explore his own head and get to the bottom of what the affair was really about.
Just as you say you keep going round in circles about how you feel and how you want him to be he too is doing this- he shouldn't be -i know but he needs to sort his head out before he can focus on what's truely important. at the moment he's lost all sense of perspective and his emotions are ruling his head.

My dh can now see it so claerly and cringes at what he did. how he was thinking then and how he treated me. He feels like he'd (of his own making) trapped himself inside a "bubble" where the real world was on the outside. Affairs are about that, escapism and famtasy.
I shudder but fully understand when you say the affair was about you and how he feels about you- it's the obvious conclusion to reach I did it at first " what can she give him, i'm not? it must be something wrong in me! You look to yourself because your the easy target- you can control and change yourself you can't do so for your dh it has to come form him. HOWEVER it took me a while to realise that "my" part in it was actually very minimal, yes you have to look at yourself and your relationship as part of the big picture but that is probably only a tiny bit ofthe jigsaw.
My dh affair was about HIM, it came from issues WITHIN HIMSELF ( the need to be needed, the feeling of inadiquacy with his age and work events- being made redundant etc)Also a big bit of it is timing- this time in your life and her being there at the right time.
I know I've used this before and it's corney but I cry every time I hear this song by Phil Colins because for us this was the case " you were lonely and you needed a friend and SHE was there at the right time with the right smile.......don't let HER steal your heart away" that's what was happening- he could have, should have turned to me but at the time he didn't realise there was something he needed to turn to me about. He din't go looking for an affair he did make all the choices and landed up inone big time!

It is very easy at a certain time in your life, especailly when you've been together a long time to let life get in the way of your relationship- before you know it you've stopped communicating like you used to. you've stopped making time for each other. As mums we often don't see that as we don't have time- or focus is on children, work, house etc etc- men often have the ability to rmove themselves from that and live in another world, they certainly have the ability to put lids on different emotional boxes (took me ages to understand that- HOW could he touch her and not think of me?..."
But he could- in his head I, the kids, us had nothing at all to do with him and HER- that wasn't my fault it was his failing, his blinkering. Once you get caught up in that way of thinking it's very powerful and you can't see reality- when reality hits ie you find out and he has to deal with what he's doing it takes along time to come out of the "bubble"- hope this makes some sense to you...I'm not in ANY way excusing what my or your dh did BUT I have spent a lot of time trying to make sense of it and so ha smy dh- cos he really didn't understand how he got to where he got.
Until your dh tackles what was really at the route of his affair, until he makes some sense of it and "forgives" himslef for making the biggest mistake of his life- until he does that he too will struggle to move on and I think that's what's happening at the moment.
You are right the ball is formly in his court now- he has to sort himslef out then deal with the damge he's caused on the way- IT'S NOT YOU IT IS HIM!

wow maturer that was an amazing post. thank you so much for taking the time to tell me all of that. made me cry too. thank you xx

You do need to believe that none of this was about you MLS.

Thanks Dior. I do. I think. I guess I accept my part in our lack of communication and how we had stopped making time for each other.

In my lowest moments I feel he then ran off to find what I couldn't give him.

But when I calm down and think rationally I know that if he'd have just spoken up about what he was unhappy with we could have fixed it in no time. It's his fault for dealing with his issues by having an affair. And I do know it's not a reflection on me. It's a reflection of his inability to act like a grown adult and communicate with his own wife. (The main lesson to be learnt here!)
The minute I knew of our problems and the way he was feeling, we were able to put things right. Literally in no time.

Just hard to remember that in my difficult moments!!

xx

Maturer I'm thinking of sending your last post to dh. I think there is so much of use in there. You've hit the nail on the head with everything xx

I know from my own experience that, when things are not good between me and h, I do respond more to attention from men. H has a way of making me feel small and unattractive which kind of makes me run to the other man even more. However - I did manage to ask him to go to Relate rather than jump into bed with another man. That is the difference I think. As you say, there may have been communication problems between you but he didn't have to have sex with another woman. He could have tried talking to you!

There is obviously a measure of 'fault' all round, but I think you got the smallest portion of it . Remember that.

mls im sorry your feeling down again.Asking questions about the ow is natural we women are by far the nosiest sex! But i do feel that no matter what answer your dh gives you it will be wrong. If he says something positive you will be angry and too right too but also if he says something negative for 1 you will wonder if his lying to spare your feelings but also if she was that bad why did he risk your family for her? Iyswim. You have the advantage that you have met the other woman you have spoken to her.

Im going by my own experinces and it has been 2years now but he still apologise to me for what he did. 2yrs on it still hurts but the guilt at what his done still hurts him too. Which is why my irrasional behavior over the texts has been the way it has.

Just to hijack a ssecond. I have dh work phone have since yesterday.And who should phone but the "lesbian" and didnot seem happy that i answered dh phone. Was polite and said id pass on message. Also the client that has been texting him i had to speak to over weekend regarding some work and i have always referred to dh to other people as j. Client is now texting dh hi j ...etc. So although im bothered i know its not dh fault. There are some women out there who are just plain trollops! Although our dh/dps have done wrong men being the weaker sex i feel we need some understanding of these ow. Also watching eastenders with dh has opened his eyes to 1 the mistress is a trollop who is after what she can get and 2 the absolute pain the wife suffers. So if anyones dh doesnt already get them to watch eastenders!

Sorry mls i tend to go on abit.

xx

thanks mel

no he can't win whatever he says can he! but he could stick to the basic facts and then focus on me and why he loves me so much and why he'll never do this again! but I know now that's too much to ask and too bloody difficult for him right now

he just needs to realise in his own time how to reassure me. I'm going to stop the questions now (I know more than enough) and distance myself from him for a while. See if he can fill that 'gap' himself and prove to us both that we can be happy again...

think we both seriously need the counselling. individual, for me to deal with the shock, hurt and anger. and individual for him to deal with the guilt and his actions.
but also as a couple, so that we can sort out why this happened in the first place and come to terms with it. that way perhaps we can have the happy future that neither of us can see at the moment...

xx

You do have that future - you are still together. Nothing you are feeling at the moment is abnormal - it is all part of your grief and perfectly understandable. Counselling would be an excellent idea IMO.