Is it really a ****hole, or does she just not want us round?

[PollyGasson24]

I've always had the smallest house in the family, currently the inside living space is probably the same as dsis house, but her garden (which bil maintains) is much bigger. If I planned on having anyone round i would fit in a good tidy and clean around children (when young) and work, sometimes up til late to do so. I enjoy having family round, so the cousins can play together while young enough to still enjoy it.
Dsis never invites us (or anyone) round. Same number of kids, usually a couple of work free days in the week, yet says she can't get on top of the mess. Dm has offered to help a number of times, but gets turned down. She's not antisocial, disabled in any way or depressed, so I don't get it. Right now I feel like I don't want to invite them round anymore, as I cant see a good reason why it's not reciprocated, but the kids enjoy playing together. I've been to dsis house twice in about 20 years, once invited, the other out of necessity. I just don't understand it. Any ideas?

Yes very odd re: parents

You say she goes over to theirs, does she invite them back?
Not as far as I'm aware. Its not because dh/dc are there, as her dh is out late every so often with a hobby he takes one dc to. 90% of the time the other dc has a sleepover at our parents on the same day, so she would have the opportunity.
Dsis hasn't specifically told us not to go round, but we're not on a 'i was just passing ' route iykwim, and she has never given an open invite. We're only about 15 minutes away and all drive. We did go round once briefly to pick her and dc up to go to an event at their school, and another time to give a lift somewhere, but it was years ago and i actually only remember being in the house on two occasions, only one of which i recall as an invite.
Ive asked a couple of times (lightheartedly) when she's going to invite us round, and my dc have actually asked if they could go round for playdates. Always the 'messy' excuse . Tbh I'd find it easier if she came out and said she just doesn't like ppl round, the messy thing implies she just doesn't want to make the effort.
I think I've recently realised how disproportionate it is for her to suggest an activity rather than me or parents and the house thing is part of that.

She’s not being rude. It is lack of effort on the part of the sister. Maybe not on your part.

Yes, she is being rude. You don't know the sister at all, so you can't comment on what it is, and quite clearly neither does OP, so neither can she (though of course she has a better look at the situation than us).

Not inviting people into your own home is nothing to do with "effort" or rather a "lack" of it; it's personal choice on how people feel about their homes.

I'm quite relieved to hear so many others dislike having people in their home. I have to have a mad cleaning spree before anyone comes over and my anxiety is through the roof till they leave. I'm looking at the clock thinking how much longer will they stay.
My parents I'm OK with, but friends and kids friends I'm on edge (no siblings). Thing is though I have told a few of my friends the truth and whilst they might not get it they do respect it. I do still make the effort occasionally though as I do feel guilty going round theirs.

Not inviting people into your own home is nothing to do with "effort" or rather a "lack" of it; it's personal choice on how people feel about their homes.
In your case what. You know nothing about myself or my sister apart from what has been posted here, yet insist that your reason is the same for her. I do actually know her pretty well, good side and bad side. I know for a fact that she has told me on occasions that she hasn't done something because she just couldn't be bothered (as we all do at some point), her dh is very much of the opinion that he won't do something if he doesn't want to.
As already stated, no mental or physical reasons why they wouldn't be able to tidy up (infact her dh does a room blitz when she's out every so often), and if no other reason is forthcoming I am within my rights to believe she doesn't reciprocate because she doesn't want to make the effort. (She has never said she doesn't like other ppl in the house, its always about the mess.)Thats not being rude.
Being rude would be telling you to take your crap comments elsewhere and butt out of my thread as you're not adding to the discussion. Just haranguing me in some strange attempt to insist your one reason is the reason my sister hasn't invited anyone in.

Exactly hel, I said upthread I'd understand more if dsis said that to me, and the fact is that even with your anxiety about it, you still make the effort occasionally. Nothing rude about that.

I completely understand why you feel hurt by this. It is either intentional or unintentional rejection. I would try and tell her how it is making you feel. If she knows you are upset but still fails to extend an invitation then you can decide to distance yourself OR continue to make the effort but without hoping for reciprocation.

sparkle I think you nailed it when you said it feels like a rejection. I'd not identified it as such before, but that is what it feels like, when the given excuse seems a bit lame. Maybe I've been a bit lighthearted about it in the past.

Maybe just decide not to take it as a rejection? Your problem is that you are taking how you would behave, and then drawing faulty conclusions from misapplying your behaviour to hers.

It sounds like your sister approaches her private space differently to you. That means she does not have the same thoughts about value. She does not express value by having people round. You do. Expecting her to think the same way you do is just going to cause you all distress. If you accept her as she is, and don’t do things you don’t want to, then you’ll all be more likely to enjoy each other’s company.

If you do things with an undeclared hidden contract (I invite you round because you will reciprocate) you are always going to be disappointed. Invite her round if you want to invite her round. Don’t invite her round if you don’t. Suddenly your life will be free from unnecessary angst caused by unexpressed expectations, and expecting people to think like you!

I understand what you're saying reet. I've been brought up to do what is polite/helpful to others, whether I enjoy it or not (our parents are also like that) and it's difficult to not expect other family members to do the same. I mostly invite them round so that the kids have a chance to play together while they still enjoy each other's company. But if she's not interested in providing that, maybe I shouldn't bother either.

I'm a little bit like this but I do host in order not to appear rude or unsociable but I don't enjoy it as I feel that my home is my sanctuary and private. I hate the way people wander round and comment on things ("oo where did you get that painting from?" or "what's this for?" or "why do you need this?" etc..) It just makes me uncomfortable having to justify any spending or choices I've made.

I also don't like the lingering smells that people leave behind them whether it's body odour (not necessarily smelly - just present) hair odour, perfume etc.. I just find it very unpleasant. The only exception being men I'm romantically involved with

It's not that I have a pristine house, I don't. I have no children but I do have pets and don't mind a bit of dust and dirt as long as it's mine. I also don't mind mess. It's just the presence of other people and their secretions!

Could your sister be like this? Or your BIL?

Its quite possible grey (don't think wrt smells tho). Though it's not as if I don't find noisy, nosey, messy visiting kids in the house irritating I do. But I make the effort because they enjoy playing together in the house/garden as well as play places or arranged day trips out (which don't happen often). If I (and you!) can make the effort, why can't she? Tbh I sometimes wonder if she can't be arsed because her dh never does anything he doesn't want to, so why should she iyswim.

I get the issues around anxiety and private space, but the bottom line is Dsis could reciprocate by taking them out to a café/restaurant, which she visits with her friends, but she doesn’t.

That is just rude and selfish, basically. She’s quite happy to accept hospitality and give nothing in return.

I would step back and invite her much less. If she wants the cousins to hang out she can organise something for herself.

D’you think her husband has issues with her friends and family?

I notice she socialises with friends when he’s doing something else.

Life is too short to do social things that you want to do! She may just be used to relying on you as social secretary. It’s possible that she may organise if you step back, or she may not. Whichever way, there’s no need to martyr yourself! Don’t do it if you don’t want to do it.

I am sure I would have a long list of grievances re relationships if I only ever did something if I could reciprocate in kind, or arrange outings if I thought someone was going to reciprocate. If that’s what I want to do, I tell them eg ‘are you up for hosting?’. I see my family because I want to see them. I really don’t care where we see each other.

I appreciate this is probably a difference in family comms style - my boyfriend finds my family’s habit of super last minute casual arrangements quite stressful in opposition to his own. It doesn’t mean that either of our families think less of each other, we just have different habits. Maybe your sister has taken a leaf out of her husbands book, op! I wouldn’t take it too personally and maybe you should do a little less things you don’t want to do, too :)

I don't really know what he thinks of her friends and family, we don't see him that often because he doesn't do family dinners or days out with us apart from on special occasions.
The bit up thread about him being out, sometimes i think sis goes out on those occasions, but mostly sees her friends at their places weekends/eve while he's at home with kids.
Maybe I'm just really difficult to get on with and never realised it!

I find you perfectly easy to get on with, why would you be?

It’s interesting that he never does family dinners or days out. It’s not uncommon for husbands to do that. There are quite a lot of loner unsociable type men who refuse to socialise with wife’s family and friends. It may not be that he doesn’t like you, just that he’s poor at socialsing. I’d imagine he’s a big factor in this.

Thanks Tatiana .
You're prob right about the dh factor...

No worries

How often do you see her? I'd be tempted to cool off for a little while to see if she makes contact. Or is she often in touch one way or another?

In your case what. You know nothing about myself or my sister apart from what has been posted here, yet insist that your reason is the same for her.

I'm not insisting, I'm telling you it's a possibility, and you seem to be refusing to even consider it.

As already stated, no mental or physical reasons why they wouldn't be able to tidy up

You don't know that for certain. It's quite common for people to hide any problems from their families.

I am within my rights to believe she doesn't reciprocate because she doesn't want to make the effort.

Oh yes, everyone has the right to believe what they want; take those that don't believe in the moon landings or holocaust deniers for a couple of examples. I'm not saying otherwise.

She has never said she doesn't like other ppl in the house, its always about the mess.)

This is my exact point that you are either refusing to acknowledge or unable to read: I never tell people it's because I don't want them in my house, I always say it's about the mess.

So it's probable that she's using the mess as an excuse, because she knows how personally you take things (as demonstrated in this thread).

what, I'm getting a bit tired of you going over the same thimg again and again. I asked for opinions, I got them. I thanked ppl for them and agreed it could be something other than mess. I even specifically agreed with you that it could be the same as your reason (who can't read? Or are you ignoring my comments?).
I also agree families don't get told everything, although due to the sheer volume and nature of things she has told me and my parents over the many years this has been happening, this is unlikely. You refuse to accept that I know my sister better than you, strangely.
I don't know why you're continuimg with this line of argument. I acknowledged it a while back, yet you're still banging on about me ignoring you. You're just making yourself look stupid. I'll not engage with you any further as it's clear you're just out for an argument.

Oh, apart from to point out that your continued defense over something I already accepted as a possibility points to some unresolved angst on your side - maybe you think some ppl around you don't believe your messy excuse either? Maybe they're good at noticing when someone lies to them and are uncomfortable that you do it so blatantly and easily. As I and other pp have said, it's more understandable and respectful to give the real reason.

Before i get jumped on, i dont have an issue with ppl using the excuse, I'm offering this poster an alternative option because they seem to have their own weird issue over it.

maybe you think some ppl around you don't believe your messy excuse either? Maybe they're good at noticing when someone lies to them and are uncomfortable that you do it so blatantly and easily.

Maybe they don't. To be honest, as long as they're not in my house and/or rudely dropping round, I really don't care what reason they choose to believe