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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Battling on!

981 replies

lollipop7 · 31/10/2017 20:06

So I'm starting a new thread following on from 0I don't know what to do" as we're almost full.
Blimey! How did that happen!

Seems lots of you are rather ruddy marvellous and want to keep going on this journey with me so I'm opening a new chapter.
Will be back with a proper update later 💐

OP posts:
whattoweartomorrow · 05/12/2017 13:38

Lollipop I haven't posted on your thread before but I just want to say, you can still protect them even when they have to see him.

I know that sounds insane, and you have been absolutely screwed over by so many professionals, but there are experts in this area who can advise you, who have worked with women and families suffering from domestic abuse.

Staying with him would mean your children never having a safe space. The longer you stay away, the more they will realise that with you it is always safe. They will have a period of time to recover between visits. They will have somewhere it is always safe, and they are loved in a way that is good and pure. It is not enough to counterbalance the risks they face with him, it is not a permanent solution, but it is something that can be survivable, for you and for them, with the right supports for you, until things can get sorted out.

If he gets visitation, and the abuse escalates, there are steps you can follow to reduce the impact those visits have on your children. You are not the first woman who has been failed by the system, and has had to use different strategies to protect her children while waiting for the courts to do what they should. There are professionals who specialise in supporting mothers to work with their children who have been affected by DV, and in some cases still are being affected, and they can help you make this the least worst it can be, which will definitely be better for them long term than you staying.

If he physically harms them in his care, you will be there to document immediately and make sure it never happens again. I know that is an unthinkable thing to have to deal with, but it is true. If they are emotionally abused, you will be a safe space for them to repair and recover, and there are people who can help you minimise the impact it has on them. I know theraplay is something that has been used successfully with dv.

There isn't a good answer to any of this. He is an evil manipulative and clever man. But in the long run, you as there mother will have more influence on them than him at his worst, and you can help them recover from what has happened. I can't imagine the situation you are in with such a young family, and such constant fear and aggravation. I would echo others about contacting Womens Aid, but I would strongly recommend you start looking at the supports that can help your children, as that will hopefully make you realise that you have more control than you think right now- not as much as you should, not enough to fully ensure they are safe, but possibly enough to make them safer than seems possible right now. As others have said, you owed nobody anything except yourself and your children. I wish you such good luck and all the strength you need x

ElsieMc · 05/12/2017 14:24

Oh op. No-one has intended to upset you here, but Frouby has eloquently set out the truth. Contact is seen by the Family Justice system as the right of the child and contact with a bad father is seen as better than no contact at all.

As Frouby has said, it does get better, it really does. At this moment in time you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Relying on a criminal conviction to prevent contact is also unlikely to succeed other than a very serious threat to the children. I know because my gc's father already had three convictions for violent offending, one being on a child. Cafcass described this as youthful indiscretion. His Probation Officer described it as ongoing, escalating violence with no remorse.

After gaining a contact order, he went on to be convicted of abh and gbh during which time he actually took me back to court for more contact! He told the Judge that other men have their children living with them who are convicted of gbh to which the Judge responded "Not if I know about it, they don't".

You have not failed your children in any way at all. You are trying to fight a system that is stacked against you but you would certainly not have been better staying.

Frouby · 05/12/2017 14:28

I grew up with a man (stepfather) lile ypur ex. You are absolutely in a much better place now and so most importantly are your dcs.

How long would it have been before your little boy starts copying his father? Or tries to protect you? Or before his father starts ramping up the abuse even more?

I am heart sorry if my post upset you. It wasn't meant to. But it is the system and your ex failing your children not you. All you can do is support them as whattowear has said. Its fucking shit. Absolutely horrendous and I would be raging if I were. But don't think you should have stayed. Because your dcs would grow up 247 in that environment and resenting you for it.

It took until I was 27, also in an abusive relationship and with a newborn before I could even begin to understand how my mother felt and why she stayed.

bluesky9 · 05/12/2017 14:38

Please, please hear whatnot towears words. She's spot on. You can do this and you will. I know exactly how fucking hard it feels just now. You have weathered the worst in terms of him. Keep looking forwards. You can do it

RandomMess · 05/12/2017 15:04

You keep on at one day at a time, you tell everyone that you great he may kill or seriously hurt one of the DC. You chip away you say to people "it will be on your conscious if something helps to my DC I have told you what he is capable of"

It is truly shit but it is better than them living with that monster every day, better than them watching him murder or maim you.

Thanks
Ellie56 · 05/12/2017 15:14

If you were me and he gets contact but you'd seen him hurt and terrorise one of your little children what would YOU do?

I'd ring Women's Aid and ask about going into a refuge as far away from him as possible. Whether that's possible now the courts are involved I don't know. I'd ring today before he gets contact.

AvoidingDM · 05/12/2017 15:41

Lollipop I don't have any advice or at least nothing that others haven't said. But your little lollipops are far better having time knowing they are 100% Safe and loved to cope with the horrible times with him. Rather than the constant fear that being with him will be.

My LO is only a baby and I can only tell you that as each month goes by it will get easier. Take care.

Doublemint · 05/12/2017 15:50

I totally echo what the previous posters have put.

And I don't know what I would do. I think I would be in contempt of court and would contact my local MP and the MP for children and families (link below). And children's social services. The fact that he can't use a contact centre because he has a record is a horrendous loophole.

I would get louder and keep banging my drum. But that said I haven't had the slog you've had.

www.gov.uk/government/people/robert-goodwill

Mix56 · 05/12/2017 16:29

lollipop, every time there is any sign of mistreatment you will be there to point it out to the professionals, everytime you will be there to help them, You won't be there if he throws you down the stairs, or gets you by the throat.
The system is failing you absolutely, but it will improve, please believe that. You have you wonderful mother helping, you are not alone.
I also think going into a refuge would put weight on your side, at the moment "you just left home & moved back to your Mums", a banal situation in the eyes of this crap judge.
But social services agreeing & putting you in a refuge says something more profound (to aforementioned inept judge)

lollipop7 · 05/12/2017 18:05

@Frouby your post didn’t upset me, your words are always lovely and heartfelt. As are everyone else’s.
I’m sorry if it came across that way, I didn’t mean it to, please accept my apologies if you’re upset.💐

I’m just reeling I suppose, with the rank injustice and disgusting irony of the juxtaposition of it all and the madness quite frankly.

Anyway, Mum is going to pay for the new solicitor. Who is really good and I trust her. That’s a massive improvement on the last chump. We’ve also got a Barrister for tomorrow who has recently got a good result in a similar case so I’m hoping for something to go my way a little. I’m excused from the hearing due to having just had a baby and being unwell, but it is going ahead, fair enough I suppose.

They have clear instructions from me. It’s not s Child Arrangement Order it’s an interim contsct Order, they’ve got evidence of the breaches, they are going to petition for contact to be suspended until safeguarding and those responsible for supervising understand it isn’t just a family day out, there’s the updates from Police and other reports etc.

I just have to hope.

I know I need to keep going but I’m having these seismic wobbles, no crises of confidence and it’s hard.

Thanks also for all the messages and offers of clothes etc, it’s lovely of you all. I’m not being ungrateful I just daren’t give any of my details away i hope you understand,

You’re all helping me more than know, I’m sorry if I’ve been throwing my toys out of the pram.
@Doublemint thanks for the MP info I might just drop him a Line as my local one one has been utterly silent as has my former one.

OP posts:
OnTheRise · 05/12/2017 18:22

Oh, Lollipop. I'm so sorry you're feeling so low.

If It's any consolation, I don't think you've ruined your children's lives. You've got them away from that man. Yes, they might have to have visits with him (although I do hope not). But they'll only be visits. They will not be their whole lives. They'll see when they're with you that life can be nice, and doesn't have to involve all that misery and unhappiness. And they'll very quickly learn that their father is a bastard, and is not to be trusted.

They WILL have a good life with you, which they couldn't have had if you'd stayed.

And you don't yet know that he'll be allowed visits. It might go the right way. It might.

We are all holding out hope for you.

Mix56 · 05/12/2017 18:59

Also, as far away as it seems, they can refuse to go at a certain age.
It seems a pitiful crumb to throw at you, I was going to delete, but just so you know this will end.

Frouby · 05/12/2017 19:07

Lollipop Flowers please dont apologise to me lovely lady.

I know everything is fucking shit right now. I do. I was 'lucky' that my ex is neglectful rather than abusive. But I do know that abuse to you won't help you stopping him seeing the dcs. My dsis went through a horrendous time with her ex. He was charged with false imprisonment and attempted rape I think and got away with community service and a suspended sentence and still got eow. He held my dsis at knifepoint for 3 hours in the home she had been given by the councils homeless department after years of sexual, financial and physical abuse.

The justice system is so heavily weighted to men it's obscene but it is not until you try and negotiate it you realise.

Phone womens aid. See what impact going to a shelter would have. Keep fighting. Keep a log of everything. And please speak to your gp. You need to be fit mentally and physically to take on the world xxx

SpringLake · 05/12/2017 21:12

Good luck for the hearing. Can do something nice (and distracting) that day - as you will at least know where he is for the duration? May be a little shopping?
Do you have a friend / address that they'd be prepared to share with at least one person on MN. Then there could be two tiers between you and us (where you trust at least one tier!). Just a thought.
Best wishes!

NameWithChange · 05/12/2017 22:26

Good luck tomorrow lolli.

It is impossible to have faith in the system, I have learnt that the hard way. But I too have a 12 y o who now refuses to go. Ongoing issues with the younger one..

I have learnt to try not to focus on all the shit failings of the system - it only winds me up and makes me feel useless and incapable and deflated. I focus on the 12 other days a fortnight when my children are safe and loved, prioritised and protected and learning their own minds with no emotional manipulations or abuse.

As others have said, you have achieved so much, and not having him in your and your DCs life in a daily basis IS a huge improvement.

Your head must be spinning with everything and a new baby on top. One day at a time. Let's hope tomorrow offers some chinks of light. Will be crossing everything for you.

Idontmeanto · 05/12/2017 22:32

Everything crossed for tomorrow lovely lady. You deserve peace. Don’t ever doubt you’re doing the right thing.

AbbieLexie · 06/12/2017 00:22

Another lurker who regularly checks for updates. Deep breath and keep going. You might not feel it but you are gaining ground. It is f*ing awful. That's a fact. Flowers FlowersFlowers

AvoidingDM · 06/12/2017 02:30

Totally understand why you don't want to give away your details. Just wish I could give some practical help.

I can't get my head round the idea he's not welcome at a contact centre because of a record but he's welcome to take charge of tiny kids. That is an epic failure of the system.

Fingers and toes crossed that you get some decent results tomorrow. Your having such a tough time just now but remember to get lots of photos of the 3 little people.

RandomMess · 06/12/2017 07:22

Thinking of you Thanks

Slingsanderrors · 06/12/2017 07:57

Hope today goes well lollipop, take care Flowers

Frouby · 06/12/2017 09:04

Thinking of you today lollipop. I hope the hearing goes your way and you get a bit of peace to enjoy Christmas with your babies xx

Doublemint · 06/12/2017 09:09

Cheering you and yours on today lollipop 🍭
#teamlollipop

JaneEyre70 · 06/12/2017 09:21

Fingers crossed that today goes your way Flowers

iknowimcoming · 06/12/2017 09:43

Sending positive vibes to you and your family today Lollipop Thanks

Thebluedog · 06/12/2017 10:51

Good luck Lolli Flowers

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