Are men and women growing apart generally?

[Lifeisntbad]

Just had a chat with a friend about this. My male and female acquaintances sometimes (with some exceptions) seem so different in outlook that I wonder about this. Obviously they are different from each other as well.
In my immediate circle of 40 /50 somethings the women are generally resourceful independent sociable and open. Many (not all) of the men are depressed, with no enthusiasm, slightly isolated and in some cases a little bitter.
While in one way gender differences seem to be blurring which can only be a good thing, in other ways men and women seem increasingly on different paths, coming together perhaps for having children and then diverging again.

So he has flat out said to you he doesn't believe sexual harassment actually ever happens? My guess is he does acknowledge it happens, but you want him to do more than that. You want him to engage in some form of collective male guilt for crimes you have already said he has never committed or ever witnessed.

Well I think it's young women that are outearning men. Obviously there is still sexism in the workplace & then generally it's still women who take time out for kids so it's harder for them to catch up.

@Redwinewhine no, not guilt. How would that be productive? Acknowledgement. As was said before it’s not ok to say ‘black people can be racist too’ or ‘not all white people are racist’ or ‘I’m not racist and none of my friends are either’ in answer to people talking about systemic racism in this country but it happens all the time when people talk about systemic sexism.

The wage gap now starts when women hit the child bearing and rearing years, which is infuriating if it happens to you as it is out of your control and it’s not like you can (or would) get rid of your kids for continued career advancement. If you read mn there are lots of women who did not make a free choice to be a sahm, go pt, take the mummy track etc. though it makes life simpler to imagine they did and just expected their partner to do the earning.

I get what the poster is saying about her husband and his attitude towards sexual violence. It’s so easy to hand wring and say why should men as a group feel anything about sexual violence if they’re not committing it? Shock, outrage, contempt, understanding victims, believing victims, empathy, not repeating and challenging rape myths, not talking about women as sex objects, making their displeasure known when men of their acquaintance do the same, not watching misogynistic porn, treating women as real human beings even if they’re not a family member, etc etc are all things a non sex offending man can do or feel that can help.

Well I think it's young women that are outearning men

Even with the exact some degree, men earn more money than women. They did a study in the US of engineers 30 and under (because they felt that having children won't factor in so much) and found that the men still out earned the women. They also get promoted faster.

My DH is in management and has sat in meetings where a bunch of men bemoaned that they didn't have the right person for a specific role when the truth was they did already have the right person, but it was a woman and most of the men forgot about her. When they think "promotion," many men (who are still the one's in positions of power in most companies) forget about the women. (BTW, my DH advocates for women in the work place, puts forward their names for promotions and high-profile projects, partly because he feels like he's paying it forward for our daughters).

Also, I still see young women going into lower paid fields that lack opportunities for advancment (such as teaching and social services) in greater numbers than men. We actively encouraged our DDs not to do this, which felt a bit odd because there is so much socially redeeming value in those jobs.

That was my understanding from
what I had read before (UK). Just googled & found the below, so very dependent on sector, location etc.

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/26/gender-pay-gap-narrows-record-low-find-large-area/amp/

Women under 40 in full time work in the UK earn almost exactly the same as men, are just as likely to get promoted and as part time workers earn a slightly higher average hourly rate. Women aged over 40 earn on average less than men, not principally because of discrimination but because they're more likely to work part time, are in less well paid occupations and are in some cases less focused on pay. The reasons for the pay gap are complex as are the solutions. It's great that more men are now working part time and taking on major family caring responsibilities, but that's mainly a thing for couples to arrange themselves.

Men have somehow never got quite close enough. I usually find them aloof, particularly when it comes down to communication around emotions. I spent the whole evening last night talking with my dad and welcoming that he felt sad and overwhelmed by a certain situation. It has taken him 2 months to work this out. In the meantime he has expressed his emotions by shouting at everybody as usual. I find this draining.
Despite my physical attraction for them I prefer to be with a woman (attracted to them too) who gets me emotionally. If I don't I am met emotionally I can't fully engage in intimacy.
With my relationship with men I always felt the mum or the child. All I want is to be in a partnership, and men don't get this. So I have closed the door to them.
.

A sizeable proportion of men have long viewed women as, at best, inferior and, if opposing them, as contemptible. This is clearly seen on social media, which no doubt has contributed to divisions. It seems women are more aware of men's attitudes to them now. This coincides with significantly higher numbers of women with financial independence. Together, I think it will lead to a growing apart of the sexes in society.

That's true. I could never have imagined how much men hate women pre- social media. Depressing. :-(

Cheer up, a lot of these guys are just hard core haters and will express it on racial, sexual or any other grounds that come to hand. There are plenty of terms of abuse they'use for other blokes too. Social media has given them an outlet but the percentage of men who ever post a single racist or sexist comment on a web site is probably less than 1%, so a poor guide to their views as a whole.

I hope it is that low a percentage.

Even if it is a small percentage, and I am not sure it is, the ever present, overt sexism on social media is having an effect on how women view men. The fact that nothing effective has been done about tackling it only adds to the feeling that this form of abuse is acceptable in our society, and a further distancing of women from men. Some men do speak out, but they, by association, put themselves at risk. Like cycling, there needs to be a critical number before it is safe.

Porn kills love.

It is not 1% of men. 52% of women have been sexually harassed in work (rising to 63% 16-24 year old women)....

This is just one stat...

News report on the pay gap in Australia and why it is not women’s ‘choices’ that are the problem;

There are drink aware ads on all the time at the moment trying to tackle the horrendously prevalent problem of sex crime in pubs and clubs.

Social media driving massive increase of VAWG...

I am generally feeling unappreciated and disrespected by men, somehow having to go to great lengths to prove my worth.
When my ex used to go out with the lad and so lad's banter I now understand everything that it implies and it is not good for women.
When my baby was born he was directly competing for attention with her, and threatening to watch porn or else as he did not get his sex quota.
What saddens me is that many men that I looked upon with respect seem to deep down share or enable this attitude.

ONS stats on unpaid work...

The problem is that the attitude that unpaid work is women’s work and so paid work that women do should be paid less, women aren’t suitable for leadership etc is an attitude both consciously and unconsciously shared by the majority of men IMO (and a great deal of women still).

So women having the lions share of the shitwork is excused by ‘they like it’ ‘they are better at it’ and ‘they agreed it with their male partners’ but in reality women’s choices are still very limited.

Fact is men have much more free choice than women. In reality this shitwork could be done by anyone but it falls to women by default for a myriad of reasons. Virtually no-one would choose a life of shitwork and dependence if they had a free choice. That’s why women end up doing it and why men by and large don’t.

So many women have ended up stuck because the father of the children ran away from the Home responsibilities and into work thereby leaving them to make their choices around the man’s choice.

The hetero relationships out of the people I know, and the happiest individuals, that are doing the best are ones where WOH and family caring are split equally and the load is shared.

Offred the 1% figure I suggested was clearly for the number of men posting sexist or racist posts on social media. Not sure what the 52% figure has to do with it tbh. If it's true that's a bad thing, as is the fact that about 100% of men have at some point been threatened with street violence.

Nor do I have any idea where you meet people who believe that "unpaid work is women’s work and so paid work that women do should be paid less, women aren’t suitable for leadership". I meet far more women in my job who believe men aren't suitable for leadership. But I agree with the last sentence of your last post.

It’s not about me meeting people.

The whole point is that this issue (systemic sexism) is well studied and is a proven objective fact...

It is not 1% of men on social media either... that’s just something you made up to justify your continual denial of the problem...

And the issue of violence by men to men is also part of the same problem.

True, the 1% is just my estimate. I don't think many people sit around putting angry posts on social media, sorry. I don't deny there's a problem but I don't think it's as all pervasive as you say. I think "systemic sexism" means when the rules are stacked against women. Dying out, hopefully.

You’ve spent the entire thread constantly saying different versions of #notallmen and making up stats!

There is plentiful research on the topic of systemic sexism and TBH when men just shrug and say ‘i’m fine and so are my mates so I don’t think it is really a problem’ it IS denial...