*trigger warning" consent for sex

[TimeIsAnIllusion]

I have a question about consent to sex within marriage.
Sometimes when my husband and I are in bed together (we normally sleep together), he will try to initiate sex by groping me - touching me and rubbing his penis against me - if I say no and he continues to force himself on top of me and attempt to penetrate me - I will try to push him off - explain I am exhausted - not in the mood now - he will continue to pin me down, force my legs apart and make me have sex - I will struggle for as long as I feel able - but often will give in and let him carry on (laying there limply not giving any encouragement hoping he finishes quickly because I am desperate for sleep). Does giving in in this manner mean I have now consented (to get it over with)?

"She said yes but he’s not using extreme violence"

Please do not listen to your mother. The majority of rapes do not actually involve violence. They are still rape and the emotional damage to the victim is no less devastating. There is no such thing as an acceptable or reasonable rape, which is what she is implying.

TimeIsAnIllusion reading this has made me so sad. I hope you don't mind if I share my story? I've had two horrific ex's. One violently raped me and beat me regularly. The other would never raise a hand to me or even argue. But he would rape me whilst I was asleep regularly. I used to wake up and try and fight him off but over time I used to pretend to have not woken.

Obviously both were awful but in some ways it was more confusing with the second ex because he was just like a "normal" guy otherwise. I questioned consent and what was right or wrong. It is soul destroying and affects you in more ways than you will even realise right now.

You should call women's aid and get help abd advice at the very minimum. I can't comment on the effect a split may or may not have on your children but I will say being a single mum on a low income is no bed of roses. I have a 2.5 year old and work and study and it is so tough at times. But I am happier than I could have been with his dad and my son will grow up seeing me happy.

I wish you all the luck in the world. Never forget that you are truly worth even more than your weight in gold. Don't let anyone treat you like you're anything less than fabulous.

Oh my goodness, yes he is raping you. No, you don’t have to put up with this. Not that violent? He’s pinning you down!!

I know you’re worried about your DC but honestly, kids are very perceptive and I suspect that they have picked up in this dynamic and if you look into it, it is one of the contributors to your DD’s anxiety. Get yourself organised. Talk to women’s aid. Talk to the CAB. Find out what you’d be entitled to without him. There may well be more money than you’re aware of if he controls the finances (do you have access to these accounts? Do you have any money of your own?). He’s gone for now. Take this opportunity to make it permanent.

I think he would be mortified to think he was a rapist.

Then mortify him. He needs a massive shock to the system so that he does not repeat, repeat, repeat. It is not your job to bring him to account. But I would urge you to consider going to the police also. If not you, he seriously wants to hurt someone.

I’m not worried about the kids being poor I’m worried if they will be hungry and cold.

I have been hungry and cold before. As a kid, and as a 20 year old and as an adult. It builds your character. I would be more worried about being ripped apart by a tiger than my kids freezing to death. Your kids won't starve and they won't freeze to death.

And the tiger won't come near you. It is just a myth.

Who told you that your kids will be hungry and cold?

Your type of thread is increasingly common. I blame porn.

I am a father and I worry about the future. I worry that society is becoming more misogynist. Not less. I will have no problem with my daughters, but I fear for the rest of my time I shall be fighting a rearguard action to deflect my sons from being sucked into the sexist shit that the internet can deliver to them on a plate.

I forgot to say as well, I have come out the other side and there was light at the end of the tunnel. There will be for you too. The effects of being raped do stay with you. But they become easier to deal with and talking about it makes it easier for me too. It will always have shaped a part of who you are but it doesn't have to be all you are. You can do this. You would not want your daughter to stay in a marriage like this, you deserve so much more.

I have Childrens tax credits and child allowance. His bank account and earnings are his. He does provide and pay the bills. I buy food and clothing for the kids and haircuts etc and he also buys food and clothes / shoes for the kids when they need them if I don’t have enough.

Yeah I don’t really agree with my mothers attitude - she is constantly saying I should stay for the kids sake.
She is in her 70’s - a different era, she would be ashamed at her daughters failed marriage in part. She doesn’t want me to land on her doorstep asking for help with 3 kids.. (two of whom are difficult teens!). She worried could I cope on my own particularly the teenagers (1 as I said anxious, maybe asd, depressed the other very outgoing and thinks she is invincible - wants to stay out late do as she pleases etc )!
She told me I had no option but to stay because I can’t support myself and the children financially and says they will blame me and be even more difficult and emotionally upset.
I said well there are women’s refuges I could ask and she said no that’s for women in a worst state than I am - saying he’s not been violent - just made me have sex against my wishes.

I have Childrens tax credits and child allowance. His bank account and earnings are his. He does provide and pay the bills. I buy food and clothing for the kids and haircuts etc and he also buys food and clothes / shoes for the kids when they need them if I don’t have enough.

How does that work out in terms of how much disposable income you both have? I'm guessing he's alright and you have close to sod all. Is that near the truth? f so, that is not how a fair marriage is meant to be. It's not the big issue here though. He could be giving you every penny he earns and he would still be a rapist. Please get yourself out of this horrible situation. I know it's not easy for you but there is support out there. Give Rape Crisis a call. They won't judge you or dictate to you what you should do. They will listen and help you come to terms with what's happening to you and give you advice if you want them to.

@TimeIsAnIllusion HUGS you are never alone dear x

Your story is so sad, OP. I hope you contact women's aid and can find a way to get away from this man.

TimeIsAnIllusion sorry to read your posts. I know this in no way adequately addresses your situation but it was something that helped me when my head was muddled, suggested by a MNer. If your husband comes back, can you sleep somewhere else while you figure things out? Use any excuse - snoring etc.
I slept in one of my DCs bedrooms because I had a bad back, had a mat on floor.
I know, I know, this isn't the answer but it will get you out of the nightime situation.

There is a spare bed in his office - ideally he should sleep there and not expect to sleep in my bed after all that has gone on.
I am literally raging with how he has treated me now.
He has said to me many times that my life is not my own - I am a mother and what did I expect. Apparently his life is his own though and I often find myself asking him why he is “telling me off” or getting irate with me in a manner that suggests he assumes he is somehow in charge of me and I must do things his way.
When I look at other people’s relationships and see friends husbands who look relaxed people with kind faces I realise my marriage is nothing like that.
My husband is a control freak. I am fairly placid and easy going. I don’t lose my temper often but I really lost it today - disappeared out of sight and sound of the kids and I was just shaking and screaming and crying with rage and frustration at this situation I have got myself into. I have literally never hated another human being as much as I hate him now.
I’m starting to see how deliberately nasty he’s been to me all along.

Sometimes I think anger is a good thing as it gives strength to act.

I can’t believe how blinkered I’ve been.

I am dependant on him and it’s made me accept behaviour I wouldn’t dream of inflicting on another person.

I see now he has such a complete lack of respect or feeling or love for me. I am literally married to someone who is controlling and using me - taking the piss out of me and infront of the kids too. He can’t love me at all.

The only way I can seize back control and dignity is to tell him fuck right off - imagine letting the relationship continue? I have absolutely no trust in him whatsoever. None.

I know it will hurt me to split with him but I would rather have a lifetime of peace and solitude than be emotionally and mentally tortured.

I am way too “soft” always looking for the good in people and giving chances because I have empathy for their feelings I avoid conflict and confrontation. It takes a LOT to make me lose my temper but I have truly lost it now!!!!

Everyone thinks he is such a nice man - he can literally switch from berrating me over something and behaving nastily to say answering the door and smiling and chatting as if he is in a lovely mood to someone else.
He can behave charmingly and is highly sociable.

People will find it hard to believe what he is like to live with.

I hope you slept okay or tried to OP.
The journey of recovery is a long and difficult one, but I promise you it will be worth it. If your children have to grow up seeing you and their father like that, it will affect them a lot with regards to their personalities and their future relationships.
Everyone at one point will stand against you, but you stay strong and think of yourself and your children. The mother is the foundation of a family, an unhappy mother means unhappy family.
When you find your peace away from all this, you can sit down with your children and calmly explain everything. Sometimes it's difficult for parents to communicate clearly with kids, but it's so important for their mental wellbeing and for the future.

And even if divorce is long, and aggravating, and you suddenly have to be independent. It's a process, but throughout that process you will have peace away from the monster. You can always go to bed at night knowing you are your own person and you have your own dignity. This, combined with love for any daughters you have, will give them a strong role model to look up to x

Even sons of course.
Your children will not grow up thinking it's acceptable for a woman to be treated this way.

I'm so sorry op.
It'll be tough to split with finances and the fall out etc but you deserve to not be raped whenever he pleases.

Everyone thinks he is such a nice man - he can literally switch from berrating me over something and behaving nastily to say answering the door and smiling and chatting as if he is in a lovely mood to someone else.
He can behave charmingly and is highly sociable.

People will find it hard to believe what he is like to live with.

I bet a large a majority will tell you that they’ve suspected all along that he’s abusive. Abusers think they hide it so well by being charming and sociable, but they don’t.

I’m so sorry OP but you have been raped.

He came back Monday. Walked in the door (with his suitcase) and said - that’s it the marriage is finished!
No discussion, no reason.
I asked why in that case he came all the way back to say it and brought a suitcase?
He said he thought he would stay in the tiny spare room!!!! No thoughts on how to separate, organise finances, etc
Very odd.
I said you came home to say you were leaving your wife and kids (he had said the kids would be told after school), and I said so do it. Don’t just say it. Go away.
He’s been staying at his dads nearby.
He’s now requesting to come back and stay in the spare room as he doesn’t want to shell out for accommodation for himself plus bills and maintenance for us.
I’m struggling to get legal advice.
I don’t think I should allow him back but technically I can’t stop him (I think) as we jointly own the house.

Good grief what a nightmare you are having.
Please contact Womens Aid.
They can help with legal advice for abusive assholes like your rapist of a 'D'H.
They will know solicitors in your local area who can handle abusers.
Please do it now.
It will take a few attempts to get through but keep trying.
Rights of Women can also help with the legal stuff.
I'm so glad he wants this marriage to be over though.
And you are right, he has every right to access the property if it's in joint names.

Oh my goodness, you’re not consenting I’m so sorry.

Nope. That's not consent. However it is not rape if he thinks that you've consented. He should realise but he may be very stupid. Just make it clear that you are not consenting but don't have the energy to fight but he's still raping you.

It's not good enough that he thinks you've consented. He has to be sure. Or else it's rape.

Yes, I know that people will probably tell you that you cannot legally do so but I would get a locksmith anyway and get the locks changed. You can claim that you lost the keys with all the distress. He left, so I reckon there is some precedent that he cannot just rock up and waltz back in. Possession and nine tenth of the law etc. You may have to find some extra courage and harness your anger by telling him if he tries to force his way back into the house that you will go to the police and report him for multiple rape. He sounds emotionally, sexually and financially abusive. I don’t think you will be any worse off. On the contrary! If you sell up, there might be some equity. You can move where you may feel more comfortable. Start fresh.