*trigger warning" consent for sex

[TimeIsAnIllusion]

I have a question about consent to sex within marriage.
Sometimes when my husband and I are in bed together (we normally sleep together), he will try to initiate sex by groping me - touching me and rubbing his penis against me - if I say no and he continues to force himself on top of me and attempt to penetrate me - I will try to push him off - explain I am exhausted - not in the mood now - he will continue to pin me down, force my legs apart and make me have sex - I will struggle for as long as I feel able - but often will give in and let him carry on (laying there limply not giving any encouragement hoping he finishes quickly because I am desperate for sleep). Does giving in in this manner mean I have now consented (to get it over with)?

He’s not from a different culture.

There have been other times where I did consent and it was mutually enjoyable.
I do think he gets a kick out of me struggling and trying to stop him - and I don’t think he understands I really don’t want to on these occasions. I think he would be mortified to think he was a rapist.
I will definitely have to talk again about it and maybe show him the tea video and say to him if I say no I really do mean it and am sorry if that hurts him.

He has currently left me at the moment but has been in touch to say he will be back on Monday to talk about everything, he’s been very stressed about work and money, and a family member of his being very ill.
We haven’t been arguing or anything but he upped and left and told the kids he was going but told them not to tell me. It seems like he is on the verge of a nervous breakdown.
I am not sleeping or eating well. My head is all over the place and I am trying to figure out what my best course of action is - the children may feel more settled if he just returns and I put up with things but I am feeling very hurt and angry by the manner in which he left but I have to consider now he may be at breaking point with stress.

On the other hand it looks like the children will be angry with me if I say I want to separate from him, they will say it’s my doing. They won’t understand. It will put them at a disadvantage financially and upset them emotionally.

He's "left you" ?

Fantastic. He's done you a favour by saving you from telling him to leave. Tell him to stay away for good.

Terrible OP, that's such a sad and troubling read 😔

It’s a difficult choice because I am a stay at home mum. I don’t drive. We don’t have joint bank accounts but he pays all the bills and provides for us and I have child benefit and children’s tax credits.

I would likely only get a minimum wage job if I say he can’t return. I can not afford the cost of mortgage and bills on a min wage job even with tax credits. I could not rely on his continued financial support if we split he doesn’t earn enough to pay for two households.

The eldest child is on the waiting list for Camhs who have said possibly asd. She self harms, has suicidal thoughts, anxiety. To boot her dad out while he’s having some sort of breakdown and me have to be at work and unable to supervise her at home (not able to safeguard her I don’t like to leave her home alone etc). She is in her final year of secondary school too.

So sorry to hear this. I hope you're ok. What a difficult situation but still doesn't excuse the rape!

Just to make it clear the consent issue isn’t a recent thing ie part of the “breakdown issue” he seems to have.

It has been there on and off over the years.
He must think it’s ok to do it because I haven’t bitten him, screamed blue murder or run away. I have remained in the marriage.

Even if I told anyone he could just say it’s not true and that I did consent or that he thought it was a game.

He stopped half way through one time when he was fucking me and said “what’s wrong with you? Why are you being like this?” (I was defeated and had turned my head away from him so he couldn’t breathe on me). I said “I am just exhausted and not in the mood sorry”. He got off and went to the bathroom.

When I was younger I used to think it was impossible for a man to be a rapist and not know it. Life has taught me this is NOT the case. They don't care to understand the importance of your consent. Your bodily autonomy is less important than his penis. That's not love, but it absolutely is rape.

He's left but you're considering taking him back. This is a good time to have a completely open discussion. Tell him outright - do you realise that you have been raping me regularly throughout our marriage? Do you understand the impact on me of that? Do you care? If he genuinely doesn't understand what he's done and he has a shred of human decency he WILL be mortified and he will never lay a finger on you again unless you specifically ask. I know that you don't believe any of this will happen though, so what does that say about your opinion of him? You know he's, at best, a vile and selfish bastard who doesn't care that if he hurts you. At worst he's deliberately raping his wife. These things are no basis for a marriage.

Sorry love but this man is a rapist and a dickhead, tell him to fuck off.

I know you are right.

My self esteem and self worth are very low.

I don’t think my happiness or needs are as important as the well being of my children right now.

I do not see the marriage lasting after the kids have flown the nest.

I need to be in a stronger position financially to do anything about my situation. My hands are tied when it comes to earning just now as my asd daughter has to be watched closely.

UC would not allow for a need to be with a teenage child to supervise because of asd/possible mental health issues she is on the waiting list with Camhs pre diagnosis I would have to work,

I don’t have family nearby that could help with the children they are 300 miles away and I can’t move nearer. It would take the kids away from contact with their dad and I would obliged to transport them to him for contact, as a non driver that would cost lots financially.

My husband does not earn enough to run two households I cannot rely on him for financial support.

It seems like I am trapped and at his beck and call, He can do as he pleases. I can’t.

Ahh good he's left, saved you a job now concentrate on yourself and building yourself up again

Would you rather be poor, in a rented house and HAPPY and FREE, or in a nice house with him?

Please, please, set yourself free. Do it today

You womt have kicked him out. He's left of his own accord. There's is only one place a self respecting mother and woman in your situation should be going right now and that's the solicitors followed closely by the police.

What the hell did I just read?

Your husband is raping you OP. I was in a relationship like this many years ago. I had the audacity to say I was sore and didn’t feel like it one night. He cried and ranted at me then forced himself on me. I lay limply like you. He said afterwards “I’m glad we did that. If it hadn’t happened I would have had to split up with you.”

I wish he had. Luckily it ended when he went away for uni but please please leave. DH would always accept a no however much he wanted sex.

It’s not about being in a “nice house” I hate our house and living where we do anyway. (It’s a small terraced house in a relatively nice area). I miss my family and my hometown. We are here because my husband wants to be near his family.

I would rather be poor and happy and free without a doubt.

I am putting my kids needs first. My eldest teenager is in her final year at secondary school.

If I say he can’t come back the kids will see the break up as my fault and blame me. They will suffer emotionally and financially we by no means lead a lavish lifestyle - we can’t afford holidays or extracurricular activities after school, or even School dinners for that matter!
All the money we have is tied up in the small terraced house and the monthly mortgage payment is high this is because we live in the south of England. The only debt is the mortgage and we budget tightly to be able to stay here.

I’m not worried about the kids being poor I’m worried if they will be hungry and cold.

But what are you teaching your kids staying with a rapist. Ok, so they may not know what actually goes on behind the bedroom door but don't fool yourself that they aren't picking up the general negativity in other ways. Your husband is a rapist.

You don't like your house anyway. You would almost certainly get housing benefit to rent a house you would like. At the very least phone woman's aid and see how things could really look.

You are right. I think I should. When the kids are back at school and not eavesdropping.

It is rape.

His laugh is sinister

Why are you considering apologising if your lack of consent “hurts him”? Should he not apologise for the hundreds or thousands of times he has raped you?

I’m so sorry you are going through this.

Your kids are probably affected by your bad relationship anyway. They will probably benefit if he stays away.

Definitely phone women's aid if not the police

He's been raping you for years. It must be so difficult but please consider leaving him.

Even if you can't accept it's rape, you don't like what he's doing and that's enough. If this happened on date two there wouldn't be date three. Don't stay for your kids. It's not fair on them.

He is showing you and telling you out loud, he sees your body as something that belongs to him, not you, and will be using it as and when he wants. Whether you want it or enjoy it isn't relevant to him.

That is not just rape, it's extreme disrespect and oppression from someone who is supposed to love you, who you trust enough to sleep next to.

I'm so sorry.

I don’t feel loved.

I do feel downtrodden, disrespected and sad. To have got to the point of thinking this is my lot in life.
I am scared of changes ahead in separating. Not being believed by others.
I told my mum without using the word rape exactly what was happening today. Before posting here to check if it actually was considered rape if I was “giving in” in the way of not biting his face or head butting him for it...
She said yes but he’s not using extreme violence - you should stay for the kids and work it out... it will be best for him and she had a dig at me for not having my own career or earnings even though she knows I can’t leave my 15y old for periods of time alone - not be there when she is setting off for school or to collect her or that i am virtually on standby for school to call me anytime and say I have to take her to a&e if she has self harmed again.

Well there's your answer love, you've learned this 'my job is to live for others and expect nothing for myself' internalised belief from your mum.

The thing is, it doesn't sound to me like you agree with her, or that you're all right with how you're being treated.

And seriously - 'he's not using extreme violence' -

So she'd be okay with him beating you so long as it wasn't extreme and thinks you should be ok with it too? What's extreme? Broken bones? Strangulation? Death? That's the point she'd agree that maybe you could have a think about putting yourself first?

Seriously? This isn't someone to listen to on this subject.