Therapist wants me to see my mum but I don't want to.

[ChocolatePHD]

I am v low contact with my mum and have been for a year when my brain finally broke over her being complicit in the childhood abuse at the hands of my stepdad, and her also not being there for me even after the stepdad left the scene, and various times of exploding at me because I wouldn't do what she wanted and trying to manipulate me.

Life has been much better without her around but she adores my ds so she has him once a month for the afternoon. She has pushed for more than that but I've said no.

And the reason for that is boththat I don't want her emotional fuckwittage messing with my head anymore (I have a lot of resulting mental health problems) and also that every time I am confronted with her at my door it really affects me. For the week prior I feel really down and low. Yesterday I felt so down I wanted to cry all day and felt so irritable that it was unbearable and I was desperate to self harm. (But won't, I am a responsible parent). I had to take a Valium to calm down. My dh always offers to do the handover at the front door but my therapist encourages me to be strong and face her, which I've always done until now, but it makes me feel so horribly anxious and upset for days before and after, I just don't know if it's worth it?! My therapist keeps saying that this will become easier with time but it hasn't at all, and actually this pick up will be even more awkward as my mum blew up at me the other week because I said no to her bringing ds' presents round at his bedtime. I offered her loads of other options but she was really arsey and rude and told me it was very upsetting and other bullshit to try and manipulate me. I stood my ground but it was so shit and made me really angry. And now I'm supposed to face her tomorrow after that and everything else? I don't want to. And dh won't be at home tomorrow as a buffer/ support either.

I should just say that this is the one thing I disagree with the therapist about, she has absolutely changed my life and gave me the courage and conviction that walking away from mum was the right thing to do. I'm just not sure I should keep subjecting myself to this. What do you think?

[springydaffs]

Attila - YOUR mother may have gone on the offensive and seen the email as an attack on her character. Toxic people like YOUR mother never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions. YOUR mother really needs, according to you, to be banished completely from your life.

Please don't project your experiences onto OP's mother. You clearly hate your mother - not everyone has the same experiences as you.

[MGKROCKS]

Ditch the therapist,he or she is not listening to you..follow yr instincts for your child

[Joysmum]

Well said Attila

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

springy

With all due respect have you actually read this thread about the OPs mother and what happened to Chocolate as a child?

I was referring in my post to the OPs mother and her potential response so not my own and no I am not projecting in any way whatsoever.

Toxic people often receive carefully worded and well thought out e-mails from their now adult child and their response is very much of the same type; they do regard these as an attack on them. Such disordered people really do not apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions. Chocolate has herself stated, "I strongly suspect she will reply angrily or in a 'poor me' fashion, neither of which will be received happily by myself, but at least I said my bit and gave her a chance to rectify things rather than me just say sod off. I don't think this will be rectified as she hasn't been able to take much responsibility so far".

[Aussiebean]

I would set up her email address to go straight to your dh. If/when it comes (and I agree with atilla that she will probably attack back- Based on your past experience and the narc mother script) he can have a read and if there is anything in there that shows she is willing to understand and listen, he can send it back.

If it's not. He can delete it. Therefore you won't have to see it and you can protect your mental health.

You DO NOT have to respond

[HyacinthBooquet]

Springy is someone Im happy to listen to on threads like these. She's generally very well clued up.

[Sweetbell]

Good for you for stating some boundaries with regards to your mothers behaviour. A reasonable person ofc wouldn't need telling but I suspect your mother has learned to manipulate and push over other peoples boundaries to get her own needs met.
Challenging this is great and she will be shocked that you're limiting her tactics.
And no matter how sorry she feels for herself I guarantee its nothing compared to the effects on your mental health.

[humanfemale]

I am outraged on your behalf! Sorry I haven’t read the thread but I have a very similar situation with my mum, was depressed and felt trapped and hopeless. Saw a therapist to help with it and she was the person who helped me see I could break contact and move on with my life. Literally the best decision I’ve ever made.

Your mum sounds like she has something missing from inside her. Mine too. It’s sad but there’s no helping that. Best to get with living your life as an awesome strong woman and mother, without exposing yourself to her. Honestly I feel for you so much.

[ChocolatePHD]

Thank you for your replies. I always feel relieved to talk on here because it's talking to someone seperate to my husband who naturally is very involved.

If I could place a bet on this I'd put a hefty wager down that she will read it and burst into tears/ crumble to pieces emotionally. That's not what I want for her but I've hit my ceiling and I can't put myself in a position anymore where someone is telling me they miss our relationship one minute and having a go at me the next. I miss the good bits so much right now that it hurts and the little girl inside me is still pining for her mother (pathetic) but I'm also an adult with limits and a child to take responsibility for as a parent so I have to make sure I'm healthy and not in a quagmire of despair.

Humanfemale- well done for extracting yourself from your situation. I concur re my mum having something missing inside her, she is very childlike in her tantrums and responses to things, and I want to protect her, but I can't and it's up to her to take care of herself.

God I'm so sick and tired of feeling choked up about this. I'm absolutely sick of it. Years and years and years of this shit. In turmoil. I feel absolutely drained tonight. And like I can't win this situation. If I put up with things I end up an anxious shell of a person, and if I speak up then she thinks of me as a bitch who is hurting her, which is fucking frustrating.

Why do I feel like I want to run round there and hug her and tell her everything is alright?

And why after all these years and all the therapy do I STILL feel like maybe I've got it all skewed and actually she is a really good mum? Because she helped put up my curtains and sympathised with me and was interested in my life. I feel like a bitch right now. A useless bitch.

[Aussiebean]

Read the stately homes thread.

You will see many others who have felt the same way and will get an idea of what helped them

You desire to go and make better is down to being conditioned by society to love and respect your mum. Plus her conditioning you to meet her needs regardless of your needs.

Unfortunately feeling like shit is common for children of narcs.

[springydaffs]

Feeling like shit is common to a vast range of people for a vast range of reasons.

I do not think these situations are straightforward. Yes she was seriously fucking crap when you were a child. She meant to be a good mother but she failed in a crucial sense, really let you down BIG time.

So far so most of us (and those who think they haven't failed somewhere along the line are either not far down the line or in denial. We've all been crap mothers as well as wonderful mothers. It's possible to be both).

From all you've said she doesn't sound a toxic mother. She sounds a weak and damaged woman who had damaged you. She didn't mean to but that's what she did.

It's your job to protect your mental health. I don't believe demonising her will protect your mental health but will make it worse. You can set boundaries without demonising her.

[ChocolatePHD]

How have I demonised her?

[springydaffs]

Sorry, I wasn't clear, I am not saying you have demonised her ; the responses on your thread are strongly encouraging you to demonise her.

It is a common and kneejerk response to tremendous hurt to demonise the one who has hurt us. That works, is perhaps necessary, for a time but not for too long. There comes a time when we have to see the humanity of the one/s who have hurt us. It's not easy, it's very uncomfortable. But imo demonising the one/s who have hurt us is worse for our ongoing mental health.

[ChocolatePHD]

Gotcha.

I love her. I miss her. There are loads of good things about her. A long list. There are also a million ways she broke my heart and left me feeling like a worthless piece of shit whose life wasn't worth living. I sincerely wouldn't still be here if it wasn't for my husband.

I can see she is a weak person, a damaged person. However I could argue I'm also that myself, yet I still wouldn't let someone bully or push around my son once let alone for years on end. So no matter what way I slice it I can't let her off what she did.

But no I don't think of her as a demon.

I think of her as a mixture of extreme good and bad points which leaves me feeling anxious and all over the place.

[HeteronormativeHaybales]

springy, with respect, the narrative of 'she's only human, she's a weak and damaged person, we've all been crap mothers' strikes right at the heart of the nagging, insidious belief of the OP, and those who have been through similar, that actually it can't have been that bad, the mother deserves empathy, forgiveness, the daughter has no right to protect herself. OP is just getting to the stage of coming to see that she does have this right, and taking the part of her mother here - which is what you are effectively doing - isn't helpful in that. The OP's mother has been on top power-wise all the OP's life. She doesn't need an advocate. The OP's developing self-protection instinct does.

OP can recognise her mother as a flawed human etc etc, but that puts her under no obligation to keep on and on exposing herself to this damaging, draining behaviour. She can - to turn round what you have said a little - protect herself from her mother without demonising her.

OP, really sorry for third person. Aussiebean is spot on. I'm some years down the line from this and your mother's behaviour is very familiar.

[HeteronormativeHaybales]

I mean 'goes right to the heart', not 'strikes right at the heart'. Gah. It's early.

[Joysmum]

Well said Hetero

[springydaffs]

it can't have been that bad, the mother deserves empathy, forgiveness, the daughter has no right to protect herself.

No, no and no! I'm out all day today so can't spend time on this today - but suffice to say I am promoting good ongoing mental health - and to deny what has happened is not good mental health practise (understatement).

Some mothers /people are out and out toxic. The vast majority of are flawed, damaged; the best of them mean well, get it disastrously wrong. This is not to excuse but to present a balance.

I have been the recipient of a variety of toxic people who have caused me immense harm. What i am saying isn't theory.

[ChocolatePHD]

I'm still a bit confused by what you're getting at springy, I did feel like I had to justify myself above to you and I was also disappointed when you said that she is just a weak damaged person. As hetero said, sometimes the only way we can gain strength in this situation is to recognise a mothers shit behaviorfor what it is- shit behaviour- the reasons for that behaviour are neither here nor there and going into them opens a can of worms and then you could start excusing them/ letting them off.

Bottom line: people can either choose to be considerate people or they can choose to be selfish. There is always a choice.

[Agentcoulson]

OP I personally find that understanding and finding compassion for the way my parents (and similarly my exH) treated me has brought me some sort of peace. Or at least it has stopped me struggling with trying to forgive. Therapy has helped a great deal with this. But we have always come back to - being able to understand why a person may have behaved as they did does not make it ok. Nor does it mean they are good for me or have a place in my life.

I suppose gaining some understanding helps take the emphasis of me being to blame for what happened. They are, like Springy said, flawed people. And how they have acted out those flaws was not ok.

And actually I agree with you. There is a choice. I am not perfect but there is nothing so powerful as looking at your precious child and knowing never in a million years would you treat them as you were treated. It is simply impossible to reconcile that with a parents love. I don't see the place for a balanced view in understanding cruelty. No one presents balance in understanding abusive partners.

I haven't cut off contact but I have very little.
I realised I virtually offered my children up, as if I owed it to my parents to let them enjoy being grandparents. To the extent of sitting at home feeling sick knowing I'd handed my child over to possibly drunk adults on one occasion. I think you describe the anxiety I can relate to of letting a person you don't trust look after your child - because of a misplaced sense of duty.

You have really strong feelings about your need to not be around your mother. And it sounds like you have very good reason. You will probably look back and wonder why on earth you handed your precious son over.

This is not a criticism. Not at all. But I want to encourage you to trust your feelings.

I have really conflicted feelings about my mother. I love her so much in the good times. But right now I need space. Do what is good for you, and by default your child op. It sounds like the relationship is not good for your health.

My children are young and I wonder if my feelings might change as they get older. I wonder if that is where Springy is coming from.

I'm not sure what your therapist is thinking. But in some ways I think if you are letting your child go out with your mother you do need to face her and see her. I think the horrible feelings that stirs up are very important to help you make good decisions about your child.

[ChocolatePHD]

AGEntcoulson thank you for your insights. Especially the last part. If I can't even bear to face my mum why am I sending my child out with her. It's a gut feeling that I don't feel right about it isn't it?

I sent the email to her yesterday and have had no response. So she is likely seething that I've dared speak up for myself and in tears at the supposed injustice of it all. I don't know what she will reply but I'm somewhat relaxed today. I've spoken up for myself and I am allowed to do that; if she doesn't like it then too bad.

All this is so complicated and hard, I feel for everyone who has shared their experiences with me on this thread.

[ChocolatePHD]

NEWSFLASH. I've literally just received a text from her saying she notes everything I've said in my email and can she take ds to the coast next weekend. Aaarrrggghhhh!

[Aussiebean]

Ha.

You don't have to reply.

Or a single no will also do. Either way , don't reply for a long time

[DameFanny]

I haven't read the whole thread but I just wanted to say, MIL's a therapist, AND a toxic parent. A good therapist should be supporting your boundaries, not trampling over them.

Not to say you haven't done some good work, but maybe a new therapist will help you maintain your progress and build the life you want - rather than this half way house you're describing.

Now I'll read the rest of the thread :-)

[DameFanny]

Ok, caught up.

You know you don't have to understand why she is the way she is? You can just accept that she's that way, and that she won't change.

You don't have to hate her, you don't have to feel sorry for her.

You can grieve the mother she never was.

But the mother you have is harmful to your mental health, and likely to your son's mental health.

You're nearly 40. You've given her plenty of chances and plenty of time. Can you find a way now to let her go, and make peace with no contact?