Therapist wants me to see my mum but I don't want to.

[ChocolatePHD]

I am v low contact with my mum and have been for a year when my brain finally broke over her being complicit in the childhood abuse at the hands of my stepdad, and her also not being there for me even after the stepdad left the scene, and various times of exploding at me because I wouldn't do what she wanted and trying to manipulate me.

Life has been much better without her around but she adores my ds so she has him once a month for the afternoon. She has pushed for more than that but I've said no.

And the reason for that is boththat I don't want her emotional fuckwittage messing with my head anymore (I have a lot of resulting mental health problems) and also that every time I am confronted with her at my door it really affects me. For the week prior I feel really down and low. Yesterday I felt so down I wanted to cry all day and felt so irritable that it was unbearable and I was desperate to self harm. (But won't, I am a responsible parent). I had to take a Valium to calm down. My dh always offers to do the handover at the front door but my therapist encourages me to be strong and face her, which I've always done until now, but it makes me feel so horribly anxious and upset for days before and after, I just don't know if it's worth it?! My therapist keeps saying that this will become easier with time but it hasn't at all, and actually this pick up will be even more awkward as my mum blew up at me the other week because I said no to her bringing ds' presents round at his bedtime. I offered her loads of other options but she was really arsey and rude and told me it was very upsetting and other bullshit to try and manipulate me. I stood my ground but it was so shit and made me really angry. And now I'm supposed to face her tomorrow after that and everything else? I don't want to. And dh won't be at home tomorrow as a buffer/ support either.

I should just say that this is the one thing I disagree with the therapist about, she has absolutely changed my life and gave me the courage and conviction that walking away from mum was the right thing to do. I'm just not sure I should keep subjecting myself to this. What do you think?

[Worryworker]

From a therapists perspective (which I am) I certainly agree it is not appropriate for her to push you on this matter. She should respect and support you in your decisions and choices (I've tended to have the opposite happen, whereby a client feels the need to maintain contact with a blatantly toxic mother and I just feel they would be better off getting the person out of their life but would never say that and thus support them with their decision/choice. Eg: perhaps helping them to be more assertive with the parent, put in boundaries etc). Be assertive in stressing your disagreement with her on this matter and you have the right to question why she feels the need to continue to pursue this.

From an adult child of toxic parents (which I am also!) I would use the fact your mother makes you feel very low and rubbish after you've seen her as a sign to avoid contact where at all possible. It doesn't sound as it she brings anything positive to your life. Nor is she likely to bring anything positive to your DC- if you know her to be manipulative then chances are she'll do that with your DC too. I have no contact with my mum (or dad) and my mental health is all the better for it. I also do not allow her to see my DC for simple fact she is a manipulative, untrustworthy person who's capable of doing anything to get what she wants.

[SeaCabbage]

I really feel for you and I hope after this hopefully brief period of added upset that you can gain some more calm feelings.

You asked how to stop the guilt? You said in your OP that your mother was complicit in your childhood abuse at the hands of your stepfather.

My dear, you need no other reasons to stay away from this woman. As others have said, your body is screaming out at you to stay away.

And please please protect your little boy and keep him away from her. How can you know she is safe with him? You don't. And she hasn't changed.

[ChocolatePHD]

It's been very interesting to read so many commenting that my therapist is out of order telling me what to do. She also told me what to write in a reply to my mum when we were having a few letters back and forth months ago. And I was aware it was her words and not mine. However had it not been for her I wouldn't have gained the conviction to go NC a year ago so it's been a mixed bag of positives and not so positives. Hmmm.

Incredibly today I've been having the thought in my head that what my mum did wasn't so bad- people have worse childhoods- so maybe I'm being out of order denying her contact. However it only took the one first incident- her watching my stepdad hold my head underwater- to cause self loathing and self harm from the age of 8 onwards. There were only a few incidents of violence, mainly because I hid in my room through fear and barely spoke a word. Living like that for years broke my brain somewhat. And I've never got over it. Most of the abuse was verbal and intimidation.

But now she wants to be having a jolly time with my son every five minutes and coming shopping etc with me (which is how things were before the NC). No wonder I can't be doing with it.

But yeah suffice to say I go back and forth in my head. But I'd never allow her back in as she was then. I can't even bear to see her.

[Blodplod]

What you're going through is FOG I believe OP. My childhood was similar to yours, a SF that was intimidating and violent and we spent a lot of times in our rooms basically terrified. Whilst he was rarely physically violent the intimidation and verbal abuse was enough. Add onto that an emotionally disconnected mother who has never ever offered us any support be it emotional, physical, financial. Literally, appears entirely self centred and it's all about her. I won't bore you with all the details but I'm sure you get the picture. I've spent YEARS of wondering what I've done wrong, why doesn't she like me (my siblings are the same and my brother went NC years ago after probably a nervous breakdown due to her behaviour), trying to please her, placate her etc etc etc etc.. it was only when I was early 40's that I truly began to realise other people's mothers were not like mine. It was toxic behaviour and I didn't need to tolerate it anymore. It's not been an easy road and I've suffered extreme mental anguish over her. That said I'm currently NC. My head is slowly starting to get quieter and she no longer takes prime position in my head 24/7. I too, also have a guilty little thought running through my head of what I think I should do, am I being unkind? Was she that bad? People suffered worse etc etc etc.. then I remember the look of pure horror on people's faces when I calmly tell another seemingly innocuous story about what she's said or what's she done and I remind myself YET again that her behaviour is not normal. Unfortunately in society it's seen as one of the greatest taboos not to get on with your parents. My mother is aging now and I do feel guilt about her advancing years and me not being there, then I remind myself she was never ever there for me. Not once. Literally never took any interested in any aspect of my life ever. It is hard. But I think you need to get some help with the FOG first. I personally think the guilt and doubt never goes away. After all, they are our 'mothers' and it goes against any ingrained beliefs they should care and respect us and want to do everything they can to protect us. For some, it's just not like that.

[Aussiebean]

Just because others have had it worse, doesn't negate the fact that she was an abusive mother.

My heart aches for that 8 yr old you and just wants to hold her and keep her safe.

Fwiw. You had it way worse then I did and I still feel justified on going nc with my mum.

Think about what you would do if your dh held your sons head under water? Think of your son feeling what you did. Would you allow it or would you kill him (or at least leave him) and protect your baby?

That is what she should have done with you. She didn't. So she doesn't get to ruin your adulthood as well.

[Sweetbell]

Your therapist is wrong to push or even tell you what to do.
The purpose of therapy is a safe place to explore your past to air your fears
But for me I feel the main aim of therapy is to learn to trust ones instincts, to trust our gut.
If your instincts are saying keep away from your mother than do that no therapist should persuade you to do opposite.
And its also OK to disagree and be assertive with a therapist as you start gaining more trust in own decisions.

Time for a new therapist I'd say if this one is ignoring your actual need to protect own mental wellbeing. You are suffering on days leading up to your mother appearing at your door. Your insides are firing off signals because the parent who didn't protect you is taking the most precious part of your life (your DC)away alone unsupervised.

In regards your own childhood no child should have to endure any amount of violence nor should they have to his themselves away in fear of violent man who lives in the home. Your mother failed to protect you and remove violent man from your life!

I'm NC with my FOO because I couldn't carry on with the mental conflict of that FOG any longer. I was a scared alone little girl whos mother left me to fend off a violent man repeatedly while she appeased him ignoring my actual pain.

[ChocolatePHD]

Blodplod I was so sorry to read of your experience, which is eerily similar to mine (are you my invisible twin??). I take your point that we have it so ingrained to love and be nice to our mothers that walking away seems counterintuitive and wrong. But for some of us it's obviously the only option if we are to have mental peace. I was pleased to hear your mental health is improved for going NC. Gives me hope.

Aussiebean- the thought of anyone hurting my baby makes my stomach drop, it's the most heartbreaking thing I can imagine. If someone is nasty to him at school I want to punch them let alone standing there motionless while someone holds his head underwater shouting at him while he gasps desperately for air. I would be out that door with my child in five seconds flat, the police would be called, you name it. So many incidents happened that while processing it all in therapy I filled a whole notebook cover to cover with writing them all down. And thank you for saying she doesn't get to ruin my adulthood as well. That really got me.

Sweetbell 'your insides are firing off signals' stuck with me, it's so true. One of the first times she had ds I had such a severe panic attack that I was crippled with chest pain and 111 sent an ambulance round. And every time since I have to down Valium and feel like self harming or just generally like a useless piece of shit (which I normally know I am not). Even the anticipation of her presence makes me feel so unconfident and awkward that I turn to jelly. And this is about 6 months down the line of her having him and nothing has changed. I don't want to keep putting myself through this and sending my ds off with someone who regularly turns up to see him with a cold despite knowing I try to avoid people with them if I can as he has severe asthma and colds always turn to bronchitis. But she doesn't give a shit about that. Speaks volumes doesn't it??

I haven't heard back from her after I sent my text hours ago saying tomorrow is a no go. She is probably weeping again because 'things aren't how they used to be'. Well things used to be a big pile of superficial fakery that left me in a state, love! So I'm not weeping my end. And any crying you're doing is nothing compared to what I've been through.

Huff.

My dh is extremely supportive thankfully, he has listened to me and held me while I've cried a zillion times over twenty years. And you guys are great to talk to.

[OnTheRise]

She won't be weeping.

She might be telling people she's weeping, but if there's no one there to watch she's probably seething, and plotting revenge.

All you have to do is keep ignoring her and she'll get nowhere. You've got this.

[WheresMyTaco]

I don't understand why your mother is ever allowed to be alone with your child or why you haven't dumped your therapist yet.

[ChocolatePHD]

Wheresmytaco she only sees him once a month for three hours to do a specific activity. But she won't even be doing that now. And yes I will be stepping back from my therapist and trusting my gut more. It wasn't until I consulted everyone here today that I realised maybe I was right and my therapist is wrong.

[WheresMyTaco]

Sorry I hadn't rtft, glad you're trusting yourself.

[Blodplod]

I'm glad you're partner is supportive chocolate. My partner is also and it's made my shift mentally from my old 'family' idea to my real family iyswim. I always used to think of my family as my 'blood' relatives however harmful they were to me. Now I see them as the others (husband, in laws, friends etc) these people care for me so much more than my 'family' they've become my family!

[springydaffs]

She won't be weeping.

She might be telling people she's weeping, but if there's no one there to watch she's probably seething, and plotting revenge.

All you have to do is keep ignoring her and she'll get nowhere. You've got this.

This is not helpful. Demonising OP's mother is not helpful in the long run for OP. Please, let's not be projecting our own experiences onto OP's - or inventing a caricature.

[Zaurak]

Pin it down to the real issue. You're in pain. E she's the thing you care most about in the world is with someone you KNOW has the capability to harm or facilitate harm,

Of course you're anxious. I'd be going crazy.

The way to stop that feeling? Prevent the situation from occurring. It's that simple. Of course the repercussions and the emotions around it arent simple. You may face kickback from her. But the root cause is simple. And it's something you can stop.

This therapist may have helped you but now she may not be meeting your needs and it may be time to find someone new who isn't fixated on keeping family in contact whatever the cost (perhaps see if anyone on the statelet homes thread can recommend someone near you?)

I am Nc with my father. I know for a fact he goes around telling people his woe is me story. I can't change that, I have no power over that. But I can and do make sure he never, ever sees my son.

I moved abroad and the bugger tracked me down. He's still never, ever going to see my son. Ever. No matter what he puts me through emotionally I will face it. Because if I dont face it, my son will.

You can do it. Her actions are out of control, so don't give them mental space. Your actions are within your control. Good luck

[Isetan]

I'm curious, what is the long term goal of letting your mother establish a relationship with your child given your extreme reaction to her? This halfway house you've chosen isn't working, if it's leaving you an emotional wreck leading up to visits. I'm guessing your therapist's suggestion was challenging the effectiveness of your current choices and if you really aren't ready to have contact with your mother (which is a valid choice) than why put yourself through the emotional turmoil that her contact with your child causes you.

Your MH is ultimately your responsibility and if contact with your mother, however limited, is causing you this much stress, then stop. Waiting around for her to be different is futile. In addition, what about your child possibly being in the middle of such a dysfunctional dynamic? As your child gets older the dynamic between you and your mother will only become more apparent and confusing for them.

My therapist said lots of things I didn't agree with but the point of our relationship was not for her to only say things that I wanted to hear, I could have just talked to myself if that's what I wanted. She said things that I didn't like and didn't accept but her differing opinions challenged my own thinking. Which improved my ability to see the bigger picture and to reference my convictions in that bigger picture. I came out of 18 months of frustrating mediation, emotionally stronger, more aware of my boundaries and more forgiving of moments where I wasn't as strong as I had wanted.

What do you want from the relationship you have with your mother? And what are the chances of those expectations ever being met? Is there a compromise where you would be willing to accept less than what your asking for? Mediation ultimately broke down between my Ex and myself because I had reached the limit of my boundaries and the gap between our expectations didn't appear to be converging.

[DontDrinkDontSmoke]

For the first year or so after I went NC with my toxic (violent drinker with an abusive mouth) mother I let her see the kids, supervised. She twisted that to my DH being on her side and then fell out with the other trusted person who was willing to facilitate the visits.

She doesn’t see them now. She does a good line in playing the victim to anyone who’ll listen to her shit.

Me? I fucking love the peace. It’s bliss.

I think you need a new therapist. Some relationships are better off not being fixed. Just because someone gave birth to you doesn’t give them any rights over you or your kids.

Best of luck, from someone who knows a bit about what you’re dealing with.

[Lottapianos]

OP, you've had some great advice on here. Just wanted to say trust your gut. You are having severely traumatic physical reactions to your son spending time with your mother. Those feelings are there for a very good reason. You are right about this - learn to trust yourself and your feelings. It takes time after growing up in such an abusive environment but you will get there

You owe this woman nothing. You are an adult and you get to make your own decisions. I know you feel like a terrified child around her, that's totally understandable given your history. But the fact is that you are your own person now and you make your own choices about who you allow into your life. Minimising the abuse and telling yourself that others had it worse is also totally normal, because you learned that you don't matter. But you do - your feelings are real and you have a right to them. Everyone on this thread is horrified by your mother's behaviour - hold onto that.

[Summerof85]

for you Chocolate. What your step father did and your mother doing nothing to stop it is so upsetting. If anyone did that to my children.....It sounds like your gut is telling you something. Well done on being strong, good luck.

[ChocolatePHD]

Thank you for your replies this morning. I woke up early with it all chewing around in my head again, and then ds asked when grandma is going to take him out. It caught me off guard (he usually doesn't mention her and hadn't remembered he was meant to be seeing her today) and I mumbled something about I'm not sure at the moment and changed the subject. It made me feel bad but ultimately this situation isn't working and I'm not happy with my boy going off with the person who has been such a horrible headfuck for me.

As an aside, her partner smokes loads of weed and is also a bit selfish and it makes me uneasy him being responsible for my son also.

One day when he is grown up I will tell ds why we don't see grandma or my dad either who was never in my life. And I know he will get it. He is only 7 right now but he is already very emotionally aware and kind and protective.

The long term goal for this arrangement is an interesting question. Where was this ever going to go? I dunno. I made this arrangement because in all honesty I felt sorry for my mum not seeing him. I felt like a terrible person taking him away. She looks like a broken person these days. And I also felt terrible cutting my ds off from his fun grandma who makes him laugh a lot.

BUT and this is a big but- what is most important is both my and his MH. I have no idea if this is gonna fuck with his head over the years, or if his attachment to her will grow and become a problem. And she only kicked off at me the other week about a situation that was in her best interests and not his, so I can't trust that this will be peaceful and without problem. Realistically it won't.

So I need to withdraw. I haven't wanted a relationship with her myself at all, in the last year, I should add. I miss the times when we were laughing or gardening or whatever but I don't get to enjoy that without a mountain of shit next to it. It's too much heartache and stress. I'm happier away.

I keep getting flashes of worry, like am I being unreasonable, am I making a horrible mistake. But at any time she could have owned what she did and said she wants to do whatever she can to make this situation right. But she hasn't. And remains selfish. And I won't forget that.

And I get flashes of the good times. It's such a huge thing walking away from your family. Such sadness. But inside I'm still that little girl who hid scared in her bedroom for 13 years, looking out the window at the desolate view, feeling like nobody cared and that life was pointless. And she wants no more of this.

[Aussiebean]

Tell you son that today is cancelled then go out and enjoy some quality time together. Just the two or three of you.

Spoil him, love him and enjoy your family

[Lottapianos]

It is a huge thing to walk away OP. Sometimes it's absolutely the right decision, but nevertheless it can involve huge amounts of pain. I grieved deeply for my parents when I decided to step back from the relationship. Ultimately it has been freeing and has brought me a lot of peace, but it was still seriously tough

It sounds like you feel that you and DS would be better off without your mother in your lives. The nagging voice in your head is part of the FOG which other posters have described. In my experience it gets less intense over time. Go easy on yourself - you're making very hard decisions and being very brave x

[ScruffbagsRUs]

Chocolate, the one thing you can take from your mum is this: she has shown you how NOT to parent your own DC.

You have absolutely NO duty nor any obligation for your mum's decision to bring you into the world. That was her choice, and hers alone. It was also her choice to:
turn a blind eye to the abuse you suffered at the hands of your step-dad.
explode at you for not doing what she wanted
mentally and emotionally abuse you by not being there to protect you from your SF

Your therapist is contradicting herself by praising your choice to walk away from your mum, but then pushing you to keep some semblance of contact with her .

You need to tell your therapist that contact with your mum will only happen when you are ready for it, and not before that time (which may be NEVER).

As for your DS, well your duty as a parent, is to protect him from toxic people like your mum. If your mum has smacked your DS, then that is abuse. She is displaying the same behavioural traits, with your DS, that she did with you when you were a child. You need to start getting angry with her, but in a controlled way so that you can tell her exactly why you are choosing to stop contact, etc, and not be afraid of the possible ensuing conflict.

I'm in a similar situation with my mum. She actively used fear (physical abuse) and intimidation (mental and emotional abuse) to try and control me. It was horrible. I was molested as a child (I was around the 7-9yo mark), and when I needed my mum to listen to me, she was always busy, either reading the paper or watching the soaps. SHe used to tell me that she would make time to listen to what I had to say, but 30+ years later, I'm still waiting. Not much chance now.

I must go for a bit, but I'll be back soon.

Take care til then OP, and remember to protect yourself and your DC

[ChocolatePHD]

Scruffbags im really sorry to read what you've been through. Yes I've always been puzzled about why my therapist is encouraging me to go to the door and face my mum. Maybe it's to build confidence that I can take it but what if I've had enough and just want to walk away? I know I don't take any more shit from her, I haven't for ages. The last thing is to not let her have ds.

[rosabug]

You are clearly not ready to face your mother yet. But you are also not prepared to cut her out of your life. In the long term you can't really go on like this because your son will get older and start asking questions. Your therapist shouldn't push and I suspect she means well, but if you are not ready you make that clear to her.

However I do think you should work towards dealing with your mother. I don't know if you have had a conversation with her about the abuse or not. If you have, and it failed, or if you haven't then it may be time to try again when you are ready. At the moment you are allowing her to control your emotional world. I think if I were this bad everytime my mother came round I would stop seeing her. In this sense I see what your therapist is trying to do - to help you break out of this cul-de-sac.

Another solution may be that to write your mother a letter telling her why, what you need from her and that you do not want to see her until YOU are ready. I really don't think your child will suffer that much at the disappearance, but sensing his mother fraught and having to deal with this uncomfortable relationship might. It's better for him to have a happy mum than this.

Either way what your therapist is trying to do is to help you take back control. I stopped speaking to my parents for 3 years. Nothing like your situation - I was just sick of feeling so crap everytime I spoke to my mother and I felt trapped by my feelings. When I was ready to talk to them again I was much stronger. Luckily for me they never made me feel guilty about it.

Good luck!!

[ChocolatePHD]

Rosabug I wrote her a long letter a year ago telling her why I needed NC and how events had caused me to struggle mentally. Instead of writing back in answer to what I had said she hassled my aunts to contact me and tell me to get in touch with her (she was blocked on my phone), giving them a sob story and tears from her side about how upset she was. We didn't speak for months and then eventually I wrote her a letter asking if she would respond to my original long one. Her response was all a big sob story, that she had been in a lousy relationship with my stepdad and was scared of him (bollocks, he never raised his hand to her) and she basically failed to address the eight thousand examples of things she had done and just said she remembered them differently to me! So that was a very unsatisfyibgg reply, not that I expected different. So I just kind of said well we obv disagree but you can see ds a bit. And that's how things have stayed. In a weird awkward limbo where she wants more but I can't give it because we do not have a whole relationship, we have her giving what she wants and being selfish the rest of the time; I can't accept that.