Please be honest: do you care if your other half has money

[Sunnyindisposition]

Male DF is around 40. Had a heart to heart recently. He's a single guy, good looking kind and intelligent. He told me he is really worried women won't be attracted to him because he doesn't have (by London standards) tons of money. He earns £60K & has a nice house in zone 5. He has this fixation that women in his social class mostly earn more than he does and wI'll write him off. I tried to tell him they won't, please add your contributions either way.

Poor guy only earning 60 grand a year.
Red flags flying high on this one

For me it's not about money, it's about drive, and if I'm honest probably about career potential too.

Having someone earn less than me isn't a big deal, especially if you're past the age of having kids/needing mat leave/unable to work.

Tell him the right woman won't care but he needs to get out there to meet her!

He isn't trying to buy anyone, he isn't looking for someone much younger and my DP who has spent time alone with him says he hasn't once made any comments about a womans appearance. I've known men the same age and far less attractive than him be in relationships and not have any trouble finding partners.

Why do you think he's having trouble dating? He's your friend, you know him better than us.

Surely you don't believe that "women turning him down because of his income" would be anything more than a very small subset of women?

Is he somehow attracting or talking to only that very specific group of women?

Or does he have a low opinion of women in general, and this comes across in how he behaves, and puts people off?

I've known men the same age and far less attractive than him be in relationships and not have any trouble finding partners.

Exactly. So as I said before, the issue here isn't money - it's his lack of experience with women and his cluelessness in reading signals. Looks and money really aren't that relevant when it comes to meeting a DP, IMO, confidence with the opposite sex is, however, very important. You can be good looking and well off (as I would consider him to be - earning £60k pa and owning his own home), but if he's oblivious to signals and doesn't have a lot of self confidence then that is the main problem here.

Honest answer is yes I did care. I earn a lot of money compared to most people and I did not want a H or a bf who I felt was living off me (or and this was my insecurities I know - to feel that he was only with me for my money).

It was REALLY important to me that anyone I dated earned at least as much as me - or was in the same ball park. I would not have dated someone with a lower income. That's not the same as saying I would have left if he had lost his job or circumstances changed. It was more about being sure he wasn't living off me and that we were at the same level.

Plus money and lifestyle is important to me and I wanted to be sure that if I decided to have children, I was married to someone who could afford for me to stop work totally maintaining the lifestyle we have. Plus I tended to be attracted to very alpha, go getting men - who tend to be higher earners anyway.

My DH earns more than me now but when we got together it was about the same.

Personally I wouldn't have dated someone on a £60k income but that's just me. People are different. For plenty of people £60k is a lot of money. Plenty of people just don't care about money.

Sounds like your friend's issue is self-confidence - which is more attractive than money at any time.

An ex partner of mine earned significantly more than 60k when we were together. He owned several homes and I have some seriously nice pieces of jewellery and a lovely collection of designer handbags from our time together. Although we're still friends, I learned that money is not a priority for me. My DH is never going to earn anywhere near 60k a year and I wouldn't change that, or him, for anything.

The social class thing were my words not his and actually they were wrong. He meant I think people with the same educational background as him which is university degree plus professional qualification. This, however, would be what put me off. Someone who is not willing to open his eyes to people with different experiences and backgrounds. Is he thinking that he'll only have things in common with women with a similar career path to him?

From what you've posted, I don't think his salary has anything to do with his lack of relationships.

If he thinks 60K isn't a lot of money then he is a bit of a dick. Even in London it's a good salary.

If he can't attract women it isn't because he isn't earning enough

It’s not that money is a factor, it’s more their outlook.
I know I couldn’t be with a waster . He’d have to have purpose and direction and drive. But people like that often have more to their name, I suppose.

I'd want someone to be solvent at least. I would look for someone with a career and preferably who owned a home, had made some provision for the future and enjoyed life but was also responsible with money (as is the case with me).

The actual salary bracket would interest me less than work ethic and passion for their career.

Nothing about your friend would put me off and I'm privately educated with a degree and professional qualification, if that matters as far as social class goes

Im the breadwinner in my family now i support dp it does get to me sometimes i earn very little i think ur friend should look somewhere else if women are so shallow 60k is alot

Perhaps he's not really interested in a relationship with anyone, male or female? Maybe he makes the right noise about meeting someone because he feels that he should?
If he's looking for someone around his age, he may not want to date single moms or divorcees, he is looking a a small-ish pool. His income is not really an issue imo. I'm a single parent living in London, decent job (sub 60k) own my own house and don't want a man-child.
We all struggle to meet someone new if we put too many restrictions on the 'type' of person we want to date. My ex partner was nothing like 'my type' but we had a laughter filled 4yrs together before I ended it just because it had run its course. We were on similar incomes but I had myself and children to support and he had himself to support. We split costs on child free weekends away and I always paid my own way on a night out.

If the women earn good money they won't care that he earns less provided that he is happy to take the things that come with it like taking paternity leave when a baby is born, changing his work hours/job to do school drop offs and pick ups, being the one who takes time out when the children are sick, being willing to move if the higher earning spouse is offered a job in a different location/wants to move closer to the office etc. Some women with good careers who have put a lot of effort into their careers might actually prefer it that way-question is would he?

He sounds a bit whiney tbh... "wah wah women don't like me because I don't earn enough boo hoo poor me."

How do they even know what he's earning? What's he doing, telling them his salary when asking them out?

No, but I care that he is responsible with what he has. Not in tons of debt, living beyond his means for example.

Ok so in answer to the question why I do I think he has trouble dating. I think he lacks experience of dating and has little innate self-confidence. He has been most of his adult life in male environments. He takes great pains to put people at their ease and he doesn't seem nervous around women in general he just seems shy around dating. When I first got to know him, it struck me that there was something almost ecclesiastical about him, he is very very softly spoken and when he puts a cup down on a table or replaces a chair he does it very slowly and deliberately so it doesn't make a noise. I couldn't tell him this I don't think but it is like he is incredibly self conscious about being a straight man who is attracted to women as if he thinks they will either not respond to, or be terrified of flirtation in any setting at all. He told me once he found a mutual work colleague, a woman, attractive. She was single at the time (she isn't now) but he told me I wasn't to say anything to her (I wouldn't have anyway) & he'd resign if I said anything to her. She was our age and normal looking so I really don't think he's looking at 21 year old models. DP said when they once had a drink together that he lowered his eyes or looked elsewhere when an attractive woman passed by (DP isn't a lech at all himself but he doesn't not look at all iyswim). The net effect of all this is he is a very very easy person to be around for women who are not looking for anything romantic or sexual but he comes across as either possibly gay or asexual with women who might be. The money thing is a red herring he doesn't even believe it himself. I don't know if you've ever heard the song "Man of the World" by Marc Cohen..he seems a bit like this.

Compatibility is the main thing, shared outlook, friendship, ability to be honest with one another. At the age of 40 he may well be dealing with lots of women who have been divorced - as one of those women, I would say that security for myself and my children is important and we currently live a very average life with all that we need. What you earn is less important to me than how you manage those earnings. If you flash the cash then go hungry for the rest of the month, or are living off credit cards etc then we may have an issue. If you are entering my life long term, I don't want constant drama!

My concern in this case is the assumption that what women want is just money. How do you enter into any relationship with that at the forefront of your mind? I would love a well-paid partner but a poorly paid one with kindness, humour, decency would add more to our lives than an idiot with a high credit limit!

That's interesting op. I like the description of there being something almost ecclesiastical about your friend.

I've known a man who was so under confident and inhibited with his sexuality that he didn't actively approach women or put an available vibe out there.

I also know a man not dissimilar to your description who came out as gay in his late 30s and now has a lovely partner.

Good luck to him.

So his statements about money are a red herring and this is about lack of experience and confidence?

What does he perceive his 'social class' is? If women in 'his' social class all earn more money than him, maybe he's not in the social class he thought he was.

Disclaimer:I'm not 100% sure I understand what social class is all about

£60k and owns a house in zone 5?! He's minted (and I say that as a Londoner who knows what it costs to live in London). If he hadn't managed to bag himself a woman I'm willing to bet it's nothing to do with his income and everything to do with his personality.

Oh, ha, hadn't RTFT. Don't mind me, just being a bitch...

He sounds ever so slightly odd. What’s with the noise aversion, does he have sensory issues or does he not like to inconvenience others? Sounds like he’s quite an anxious /uptight person? Definitely not someone I would pursue.

And £60k is a huge salary, most households in the uk don’t earn that combined.

I get it more now. I don't think this is "confidence" thing as such, that's a symptom but it doesn't describe the mechanism - the mechanism is risk aversion (I also have this although to a lesser extent).

He sounds very unwilling to be vulnerable in any way at all, and the trouble is you have to be vulnerable to date, and you have to be ready to tolerate ambiguity and uncertainty, and you have to be prepared for things to go wrong.

Like telling you not to tell the work colleague or he'd resign! It sounds like something a terrified 12yo with their first crush would say, before they've figured out the world doesn't end if other people know they have feelings. Presumably he couldn't bear the prospect of this person knowing his feelings and/or not returning them, would have found the working environment intolerable if they hadn't etc. He's probably also a highly responsible person so he would have been more hung up than most people are on maintaining professionalism at work (lots of couples meet at work so people are bending those rules all the time!)

Maybe the point he needs to consider is that you can't control your entire environment for social and emotional risk (or rather you can, but then you'll also eliminate opportunity). The sensory thing also makes sense to me in this context. I am also very easily jangled and overloaded by noise, amongst other things, because my sensory processing is more active or extreme or something than most people's, and that's where I get a slight inclination to control my environment too.

This man doesn't want to be in a relationship for any number of reasons (some possibly unconscious) and is using this as an excuse.