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Relationships

I cheated. DH discovered the affair just after it ended

238 replies

KC11 · 20/09/2017 18:15

More than 7 years ago I cheated on my H. 5 weeks in total. For me it was more about the emotional side and the hugs and smiles and texts during the day saying he was thinking about me. We did have sex several times. I ended the affair and hoped I wouldn't be found out. H, I now know, had been suspicious and managed to find out my pin code for my mobile. The OM texted me even though it was over to ask could he see me. I was in the shower oblivious to the text. H had my mobile and saw the text 5 minutes after it arrived. H opened the text and that was that. Affair discovered. Moving forwards...H and I have been arguing recently and one of the things that keeps coming up is that he wants details of the affair. Full details...where, when, how many times? Did we do 'x'? Did we do 'y'? Have I seen him in our local area? Was his child there when we saw each other/slept together? I really don't want to go into the details. Am I in the wrong?

OP posts:
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mathanxiety · 21/09/2017 04:47

For all those on the thread that think the OPer needs to disclose every gory detail, if you were the spouse who were cheated on, why would you refuse to have these conversations with a marriage counselor? Why would you refuse to go to counseling? It is easy to relate to the concerns of the cheated on spouse it is everyone's nightmare but look at what he is refusing to do

Because they think their spouse is manipulative and think s/he approached the former marriage counselor with the intention of impressing them? (By repeating how sorry s/he is, etc.)
Because they think the chance of being lied to or getting a toned down version in front of a marriage counselor is high? (The OP is squeamish after all.)
Because they suspect the 'he's not very affectionate'/'he didn't appreciate how much infertility affected me' narrative would be used to tilt the conversation into how important the emotional quotient of the affair was, which would actually be an accusation against the H for his lack of empathy or coldness? (Whereas the nuts and bolts of the sexual encounters are what have hurt the H more than anything, and they are the elements the OP least wants to talk about, because they tell her something about herself that she doesn't want to acknowledge.)

Conversely, you might want to go back again and try to squeeze out details if you had the gut feeling you were dealing with someone who was able to set aside their desire to 'put it all behind them on a no questions asked' basis, and do whatever it took, say whatever it took, reveal whatever it took to help the spouse they cheated on to trust them again, to always and everywhere demonstrate respect for the relationship and the spouse and his feelings, and above all to demonstrate patience. No need for sackcloth and ashes and bowing and scraping - just the understanding that "What's wrong?" is always going to have the same answer and is a question that should never be asked. There is no mystery here.

In this case, the previous marriage counseling was perhaps not productive for the H, for reasons to do with gut feelings and observations and suspicions. It would be interesting to know exactly what went on in the counseling that took place.

It seems to me that the OP is using the H's refusal to go to more as a weapon against him. "Look, I am going to counseling - what more evidence of contrition do you want?" OP, I think you are skirmishing with this counseling thing. It is a fobbing off tactic.

Once one or other or both parties take up position in a trench and start lobbing tit for tat grenades at each other, the marriage is over. I would like to know what lobbing has gone on over the 7 years of trench warfare here. I think you are the one in the trench here. You have spent 7 years thinking you could shut the door on it all. Now you have it in your head that at 7 years he is taking the piss by still being in bits. You think he is punishing you.

Putting it all behind you is an endeavour in which the cheated on spouse must give full co-operation. Why should he do that? You have to give him the equivalent of a deposit on the future relationship here. Instead you are expressing equivocations and minimising and seeing yourself as a victim:

Time related remarks:
More than 7 years ago I cheated on my H. 5 weeks in total.

I ended a 5 week affair 7 years ago. I am generally trying to forget about the affair until it gets brought up in an argument.

He found out about affair 4 days after I ended it (which was 7 years ago).
It is important to you that it was 7 years ago. 'He has not got over it' slowly starts to sound like 'He has not got over himself yet'.
The fact that it was a 5-week affair seems important to you too. Do you think it was short enough to be inconsequential? There is an element of minimising in giving the 5-week detail.

Minimising remarks:
In such a short space of time we mainly got to text each other and meet in the early evening at a pub for one drink and then part company.

We did have sex several times.

There's not actually much to tell.

'I am the victim now' remarks:
The current situation feels like I'm being punished and that H is trying to get his revenge. He wants to know what time of the day we had sex, which room, how it started each time, was it at our house (which it was not). Did OM visit our house? Does OM know where we live?

I would find it embarrassing to go into graphic details about sexual stuff with anyone at all. I'm not a sexy person. I am cross that I was so stupid to get involved at all with OM. I am sorry and want to be forgiven.
(Forgiven for what? You want him to write you a blank cheque here.)

I would like H to open up to me. He'll say I know you told lies and I feel he wants to investigate each time I said I was somewhere but wasn't.
You did lie and it was a big one. That tends to make people suspicious.
If you have continued to lie - for instance about being places when you were not, and he has found out, then I have to ask, "What the heck are you playing at?"

And you won't tell him what he wants to know because you do not want to get out of your comfort zone and you do not really want to look at exactly what you have done here, but you are asking a lot of him while continuing to - I don't know.. tease is too mild a word, and taunt doesn't cover it either... 'carelessly risk reopening his wounds' might come close to what you do every single time you go somewhere and tell him you went somewhere else. It is indeed like a knife twisting.

This thing landed in his lap unbidden, and he has to deal with it the best way he can. He has to grieve the loss of what he thought he had and would have all his life, the loss of faith in the relationship, and the loss of his sense of himself as a man. He has to deal with all the unthinkable choices a cheated on spouse faces. None of it was on his radar until he started to become suspicious and had his suspicions confirmed.

That is what he is doing. He is not punishing you and you do not have the right to expect him to make linear progress, so much per year, adding up to a certain total for 7 years. The cheated on spouse can have wounds reopened by the smallest little things that can set them back to Zero no matter how much time has elapsed. I suspect you have done something in the last 6 months that has taken him all the way back to a state of rawness he was at many years ago.

I think this marriage is over. You do not understand what he is going through, and asking him 'What's wrong?' is like nails on the blackboard. Feeling annoyed that he can't or won't tell you indicates that you have quite a sense of entitlement. He does not see you as his friend, as someone he can lean on or trust with his feelings. You have not obliged with the details he needs and he is left with no sign that you have any empathy at all in this situation.

It sounds as if the whole experience has left him with a case of depression - doesn't go out with friends, eating and sleeping habits have become unsocial, isolated, complains about work (stress). I do not think he is trying to strike up another relationship. What I have seen here of his response indicates that he feels emasculated.

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mathanxiety · 21/09/2017 04:52

SandyY2K I agree with all of your posts here.

Thank you for that great link too.

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mathanxiety · 21/09/2017 05:03

At the time H kept saying I know things you don't think I know.

I ended the affair and hoped I wouldn't be found out. H, I now know, had been suspicious and managed to find out my pin code for my mobile.

Hi found out about affair 4 days after I ended it (which was 7 years ago). He saw a text from OM.

You knew he had suspicions but you hoped he would never find out? This was quite naive of you.

Your H only has your word for it that you had ended the affair four days previously. Are you sure you ended the affair, or did it end because your H intercepted the text the OM sent while you were in the shower?

Can you see that a detail like this might be bothering your H?

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MumBod · 21/09/2017 05:05

Your marriage is over, OP.

Move on and be happy Flowers

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AccrualIntentions · 21/09/2017 05:15

If the affair had never happened, do you think you would still be together?

It doesn't sound like he wants to move on, and it doesn't sound like you ever resolved the issues which led to you looking outside your relationship for support in the first place. People vastly underestimate the degree to which infertility can fuck up relationships.

Don't stay with him out of guilt, or to punish yourself. You did something wrong, that doesn't mean you're condemned to be punished for life. A PP said your DH must be besotted with you to have stayed with you after the affair. I completely disagree. He has stayed with you but never allowed either of you to move on, and those aren't loving actions to me, they're punishing ones.

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kickingcancersass · 21/09/2017 05:31

Simple answer
"I can't remember! It was so long ago, and didn't matter!"
Then
"Why are we even talking about this?"

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Angelf1sh · 21/09/2017 05:47

I think this is really unfair. If he decided 7 years ago to stay with you and work things through, it's not right that he's still holding it over you now. I'd tell him that I wasn't going to answer those questions and it was in the past.

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Tilapia · 21/09/2017 05:48

It does seem like your marriage may be over. He's been giving you the silent treatment for three weeks now? You've tried to get past the affair, as a couple, but it just hasn't worked.

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Barbaro · 21/09/2017 06:12

You cheated, you owe him an explanation if he wants one. From what you're saying though I doubt he'll ever fully trust you and your marriage is likely ruined unfortunately.

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MaisyPops · 21/09/2017 06:24

I disagree with a lot of people actually.

You had an affair and it was wrong. DH found out and you worked through it. This was 7 years ago.

Whilst his lack of support surrounding infertility didn't cause the affair, it formed part of the conditions where you strayed seeking support outside the marriage.

You have been willing to go to counselling and deal with communication around the infertility situation. He hasn't.

Instead of working through together, he keeps bringing the affair up and is demanding intimate details. He is sulking and pulling further away & freezing you out (the very thing that significqntly contributed you have an affair).

I think he is being quite manipulative and vindictive to be behaving this way. It strikes me he doesn't want to deal with his issues or issues in the relationship and js quite happy to have a 'get out of jail free' card to act like an arse.

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RainyApril · 21/09/2017 06:30

After xh's affair we went to counselling and I read every self help book I could as we tried to recover from it.

The constant message is that the betrayed party will have questions that their partner must answer honestly in order for the relationship to stand a chance of recovering.

Ultimately I couldn't get over it and ended it. To me, it sounds like your marriage was indelibly damaged and your dh is currently on the brink of an affair that he is trying to justify.

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RainyApril · 21/09/2017 06:35

I have just seen the post from MaisyPops and just wanted to say that sulking, freezing out, withdrawing and wanting answers are all normal responses to betrayal, and come from sadness, hurt and devastation.

All of this should have been addressed 7 years ago of course, questions answered and so on.

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MaisyPops · 21/09/2017 06:41

My main point rainy is that the OP has been working to resolve it. She has wanted to go to counselling or marriage therapy, not just to deal with the affair but also the situation which led to the affair.

The DH isn't willing to do it. He's still not showing any empathy to her infertility 7 years later. (Something which led to the OP seeking support outside rhe marriage).

Now 7 years later he keeps bringing it up in arguments, says he wants it to be over and is demanding intimate details (which to be honest i wouldnt remember the details of sex 7 years ago).

If he wants to resolve it then it could be done in a healthy way through mediation, but he isn't interested in doing that (too busy refusing and using it as a stick to beat her with) so to me he loses any high ground.

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SonicBoomBoom · 21/09/2017 07:05

I totally agree with Math's posts. Especially how you minimise it with the time comments.

I also think that you saying I would find it embarrassing to go into graphic details about sexual stuff with anyone at all. I'm not a sexy person. is your problem. You had an intimate and sexual relationship outside your marriage. You shouldn't ever need to go into graphic detail about your sex life with someone else, because that is supposed to be something that stays within marriage. The fact that this is an issue is solely down to you, so your discomfort about talking about sex, frankly, you'll just need to get over yourself, if you want to try and save your marriage.

From your DH's side, you have intimate secrets with someone else. So he wants to know what they are so it's one less thing the OM has over him.

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mathanxiety · 21/09/2017 07:07

Yes indeed, RainyApril, they are normal responses to betrayal, and there is no time limit by which the betrayed party should have moved on (whatever that means - it seems in this case the OP wants to define that for her H in terms of him forgiving her).

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MaisyPops · 21/09/2017 07:11

I don't think there's a time limit for questions.

I do think it's a bit unreasonable that he has refused to do counselling/mediation about a number of things and yet still expects to bring it up years later and use it as point scoring in an argument.

I'd feel happier about him still having questions if he had agreed to mediation/counselling to help resolve the issue.

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Tilapia · 21/09/2017 07:15

I agree that these are normal responses to betrayal. I also think that it sounds like this couple will not recover from the betrayal. It's not just the questions which are the problem but also the DH's other behaviour, e.g. three weeks of silent treatment. The seven years is relevant - not because there is a 'time limit' on emotions - but because at some point, in any marriage, you need to hold up your hands and say "look, we've really tried to make this work, maybe it's time to call it a day".

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RainyApril · 21/09/2017 07:20

But he did go to marriage counselling.

He has refused to go again admittedly but maybe he did not find it helpful.

To me, from my admittedly biased standpoint, op thought they could go to counselling and then pretend it never happened. Everything she says here is in the cheater's script - justifying the affair, minimising the details, exasperation that her dh can't get over it, unwillingness to answer questions.

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mathanxiety · 21/09/2017 07:22

As I posted, there are many reasons why someone would be wary of going to counseling.

No matter what they were, the OP is using his refusal to go now as part of a case against him, as if that is an unreasonable refusal on his part that can be used to apportion 50/50 blame for the end of the marriage.

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SandyY2K · 21/09/2017 07:32

Way too much minimising and thanks @mathanxiety

This wayward wife reminds me of you OP.

You have no idea what's been going through his mind all these years.

I am a former wayward wife.
I was 3 yrs married and 1 yr with a newborn son when I met the other man in my new office.

The affair was a totally out of character behaviour for me. I had never cheated any exes before.
The affair was very damaging for my marriage and almost destroyed my relationship with my husband.
My husband found. He actually found out a month before confronting me.
He gave me two straight choices - end the affair and quit the job or divorce.
I took the previous.
As I got out of the affair, I did everything to recover my marriage and show my husband how remorseful I am and how much I loved him.

And now 8 yrs later he wants to divorce me because of my affair. The 8 yrs where I poured everything to recover the marriage, made new memories with my husband always trying to make him happy.

Many things happened in between those 8 years in which I understood how I have changed my husband and how he will not look at me the same way. But I reconciled with this in my mind that this was a new marriage and I should be glad that my husband is giving me a second chance after all I put him through.

And recently when announcing his one sided decision to divorce me he has revealed many things about his thoughts on my affair that he never told me before

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SandyY2K · 21/09/2017 07:48

Simple answer
"I can't remember! It was so long ago, and didn't matter!"

Then
"Why are we even talking about this?"

Seriously! Talk about being unremorseful. That just smacks of arrogance.

OP, you'd do good to try and understand how a betrayed spouse feels.

I'll never forget one BH who said his wife's infidelity had totally changed what he planned to say about her in his retirement speech.

He could no longer say she had his back or that she could always be counted on no matter what

This was 20 years later...he didn't leave at the time because he didn't want another man seeing his kids more than he did...and 50/50 back then was rare.

Your husband could have easily walked away with no kids....so he stayed because he loves you.

I'm just trying to give you the benefit of my experience with all this.

In your mind the affair is over and done....that's not quite how he feels. Every betrayed spouse feels differently and you aren't the only cheater who feels the way you do. I'm sure I'd feel the same in your position.

Is part of it because you feel he'd leave if he knew the details?

I'm going to suggest you have a look at //www.survivinginfidelity.com

Especially the 'just found our and 'wayward' threads. They are really insightful.

You might not think so, but I'm honestly trying to help you. It's linked to my profession/career and I know what I'm talking about.

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mathanxiety · 21/09/2017 07:56

I ended the affair and hoped I wouldn't be found out. H, I now know, had been suspicious and managed to find out my pin code for my mobile. The OM texted me even though it was over to ask could he see me

I am suspicious about the reiteration that the affair was over. I have a feeling it was not over and might not have been over if the text has not been intercepted, and that the ready-made-family theory of the H regarding the affair was bang on the money. She herself admits to lying during the past 7 years, even with so much at stake. I feel he wants to investigate each time I said I was somewhere but wasn't. (No shit Sherlock).

Part of what alienates the OP from her H right now is that in her view, he will not open up to her. He seems emotionally self sufficient. Her OM was a man in need, divorced and looking after his child full time alone. I think this description of the OM's situation supports the H's theory. All in all, I think the H may have more insight into the OP's decisions than she wants to consider. I also think that she is blocking out what the H is communicating to her because it is not something she wants to deal with - his feelings about her betrayal and by extension, what he is saying to her about herself.

Of course he 100% wants to know if they dtd under his roof - the OP treats the examples of what sort of detail the H wants to know as if it is a strange and unwarranted preoccupation, a focus on something minor.

I think he hates that it's still in his mind.
OP, he hates you and resents you for dropping this bomb in his life. The damage is never going to go away and he is coming to terms with that fact.

I have stayed because he said that was what he wanted.
That seems very ambivalent on your part and I am not sure how well it supports your assertion that you want him to want you. Why do you want him to want you? So you can feel reassured that you are not the one whose choices ruined the marriage?

All this time later it seems to be back to being a major thing again.
'All this time later' reveals a complete lack of insight into the H's process here. It has always been a major thing. OP - you just haven't noticed or don't want to ponder that.

A few weeks back he said he didn't know if he wanted to be with me any more and that he was thinking things over. Since that day he had not referred to that chat until I asked him are you still thinking you want tk end our marriage and he said he didn't know.
You know what questions he wants answered, OP, and you are parrying with 'Do you want to end the marriage?'

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Thebluedog · 21/09/2017 08:04

Yes you owe him answers! All of them, no matter how uncomfortable it might make you feel, and even if you think the answers might upset him to such an extent he'll end the relationship.

My ex had an affair and he refused to give me the details and minimised them, I could never repair myself as I constantly felt in the dark and couldn't make any decisions based on what he told me as I didn't have all the facts, it was nearly as bad as when it happened. Ultimately I left the relationship because of this.

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SandyY2K · 21/09/2017 09:31

Everything she says here is in the cheater's script - justifying the affair, minimising the details, exasperation that her dh can't get over it, unwillingness to answer questions

This ^^^^100%

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Branleuse · 21/09/2017 09:43

If you have an affair, you fuck up your marriage. Might not be immediately, might be several years down the line when the other partner realises theyre still not over it. You make your bed and you lie in it.

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