DH wants to move abroad and I really, really don't want to.

[BayLeaves]

I don't know what to do.

DH wants to move abroad, ideally to his home country in Europe.

I don't want to move. We live in the town I grew up in, I lived elsewhere for 12 years and we moved back here 4 years ago. I don't find it that easy to make new friendships but recently I've finally made some good mum friends and I'm also near my parents, I have two separate grandparents living nearby from different sides, as well as various aunts, uncles, etc. I feel so happy and settled here, I love our house and I love all the things to do locally with our 2 kids, I just really enjoy it. We have a 3 year old and a 2 month old and I feel like I really really need that social/support network.

We've got a new baby and even a week or so after he was born DH kept talking about wanting to move away. It made me feel so sad because I feel like even the birth of a new baby was not special enough to keep him away from this obsession with moving away.

DH has a long commute and until recently I did the same commmute. Now I've been made redundant and so I'm on indefinite "maternity leave". He's fed up with the commute and wants to advance his career elsewhere, he's even been headhunted by other companies in various locations. There aren't any other good jobs in our field locally. I think moving far away is DH's solution to that problem.

As I'm not actually working or contributing income, am entitled to less of a say? Do I need to just move wherever DH goes now that he's the only breadwinner? I sometimes wonder if I'd rather be a single mum living in a council flat but still live here with my friends and family, rather than have a big house with DH somewhere else so that he can advance his career.

I don't know what to do but DH seems miserable about being here. I just wish I'd know his intentions before we settled down in my home town, bought a house and had two kids here

His reasons for moving are just as valid as yours for staying - you want to be near your family. You must be able to understand why he wants to be around his?

You don't have to follow him, but that might spell the end.

Are there any feasible compromises? Could you agree to stay in the UK until your kids are old enough for you to feel more confident coping without family on tap? Could you live here full time but all holiday in his home country every year? Could you live apart? (Would your relationship survive that and could you afford for him to commute back at weekends?)

Is he truly missing home, or just looking for a change? Would moving in the UK to a different city be sufficient to shake things for him?

Lots of things to think about.

Of course you have a say and of course you dont have to move.

But as someone who has many years of experience being an expat: its lonely.

I made a recent thread about my situation with my DP and being on his turf.

Just throwing it out there and giving you a different perspective than the one I suspect you'll get most of here: from his POV the past 4 years have been all about you being around your friends and family, in your culture and community. I presume thats where you met, so fair does, he cant complain. But maybe he looks at that and thinks "man, she has no idea. I wish I had all that too". Maybe he misses HIS friends and family having frequent access to his kids and being able to form a close bond with them. Maybe he misses not being a foreigner. Maybe he feels sad that theres this whole other half of the kids' heritage and cultural background they are totally unaware of.

Expat life can often be quite fun though. Which country is it? You may be surprised at how much you enjoy it. If i were in your shoes, I'd agree to a temporary trial over there to test it out first. But thats just me 😉

I'll be honest with you and say im quite surprised you dont seem to have much empathy for his position. Maybe it was never his intention to go back but homesickness crept in. You feel great living close to your loved ones but dont mention that as being potentially an important factor for him too - you get that he also has the right to feel that warm sense of network and community too, right?

Snap pringle

Single mum in a council flat?

"I just wish I'd know his intentions before we settled down in my home town, bought a house and had two kids here"

I mean thats pretty unfair, he couldnt have known his feelings would change.

To flip it around, did it not occur to you before building a family with someone from another country that one day they might want to move back?

Er...of course you have exactly the same 'say' as your partner! Do no let anyone tell you otherwise. Your initial instinct seems right to me... having two little dcs means you need all the support networks you can get. Well done for making friends etc. This is what you need ... especially if you have a husband who would is continually nagging you about moving away. He's not exactly being supportive is he?

2 months after giving birth you are still very vulnerable and knackered. Tell him to lay off. Tell him you're not going to even talk about it until your baby is at least 6 months old. I think he really needs to shut the fuck up at the moment.

Ok so he's earning the family bread at the moment, but you are just as important in the family. You are the mum. Be proud. You have equal say. Don't let him steamroller you now or ever.

Also, consider what it would be like if you moved to his home country. He'd have all the connections and family and he would have all the readymade networks, presumably, if he got a full time job there. You'd be left pretty stranded in a foreign country... maybe with language barrier and nightmare inlaws. I may be drawing a bad picture here... but then, consider if you were having a terrible time abroad and he refuses to move back to the UK. how would you get your children home then?

Also, what was the plan while you two were busy buying a house and planning children in your home town? Sounds like he knew you were settling down... he can't pretend he went into this with his eyes closed.

Sorry to be bleak, but I would be digging my heels in.

Now would be a bad time for you to move because you have a new baby and aren't working and that is probably the most significant time of your life apart from old age when you need a social and practical support network.

Moving to his home country also has risks for you because if you do move and then split up, you may not be allowed to remove the children from the country so you may be trapped there.

Presumably your H was happy when you moved 4 years ago. So at that point he was committed to your current location. When did that change for him? Was it when you stopped working?

I agree this isn't something to be stressing about when you have a 2 month old.

I had similar challenges with my stbxh although he was looking for us to move away from the UK where he's got his family, and I have some of mine. It wasn't to do with being close to his network etc, but seemed to be more to get me away from mine.

Like you, we both had stressful jobs and I quit after number 2 to build my business which runs nicely around our children's schedule. Unfortunately, it led to a lot of resentment/jealousy which eventually led to him quitting to run a business too. Things didn't quite work out as he'd hoped and the jealousy/resentment intensified, eventually leading to a divorce.

My divorce has been the best thing for me and I'm happy, as are our children and (hopefully) him.

My advice to you would be to make sure you really hear each other out. Counselling helped us immensely, and I would recommend that you consider it.

Good luck to you two, and congrats on your new baby.

PS: these types of challenges can rarely be fairly looked at in isolation. You most probably have deeper issues in your relationship that you need to explore, and this is most likely a symptom.

Of course you have equal "say" in the decision op (if you weren't looking after the DC then you would have to pay someone to do so) but speaking as someone who has had to move all over the place (and understands the challenges) the situation of the breadwinner (dh) has to take precedence. We've never had the luxury of it being otherwise. And hard though this sounds, your dh has given it four years and is fed up of his commute. Maybe it is his turn? He may miss his family too. I agree the timing is awful though as you need most support now with your dc the ages they are. Moving abroad may not be as bad as you think though; lots of countries are more child friendly than the UK. I hope you can work it out between you.

What others have said:

this is not the time when you should be stressing about this and certainly not the time when you should be making any major changes. You have just given birth and are still getting used to dealing with a small baby- you need to do that in a stable environment.

However:

you chose to marry a foreigner- did you actually talk through what that would be like and how both your needs for cultural identity/ support net/family ties/feeling part of your community would be met in the long term? Or did you just expect that he would do all the adapting without troubling you about it?

I am the foreign part of a very happy marriage and it seems very unlikely that we will ever change location. The reason it works for us is very much to do with dh's awareness that I and my culture make up half the marriage, that even though I speak fluent English and am very well versed in English culture, I have another identity which needs recognition and which may need more recognition as I get older. He gets the convenience of living in his familiar culture, staying close to family, not having to learn another language to very high standards, seeing his children brought up in a context and with rules that he understands. Otoh he makes sure that we spend plenty of time with my family and friends, that I can speak my own language at home, that my viewpoint is listened to even when it does seem very foreign, that I know that he sees the work I put in.

I did find the birth of our first child particularly stressful, because of the thought that my child would grow up in a different culture and the fear that we might not understand each other, that my own child would feel alien to me or think of me as an alien. I needed a lot of reassurance at that time. Perhaps he does too.

And though I am very, very happy in the UK, and dh is very supportive, there are moments when I kind of half wish that he could have had that same experience, simply so he could see how much I do in terms of adapting for our family to work.

Neither of you trumps the other in this - with arguably the exception of at the moment while the baby gets settled.
You need to really talk and really understand what the core issues are. If it's the commute and lack of progression (I suspect as the only income earner he's particularly sensitive to that) then is there a compromise of moving elsewhere in the uk but still relatively close to your family/friends? Or is it really about his culture being incorporated into the family/kids?
What time frame can you compromise you? Given your kids ages you need to think about school and where both you want them educated.
And ultimately you need to decide your personal limits - a single mum in a council flat - actually means the emotional fallout of a divorce, your kids growing up with out their dad in the same house, and potential money worries (and if your old career had the same commute you may need to move anyway if/when you go back to work so you don't actually stay in your current home anyway) It sure isn't some 'magic wand' to solve your problems!!

I feel for both of you, but as an EU national living in the UK I can really, really understand why your DH wants out. I'd go myself if it were possible despite my DDs having been born here. Your DH probably came here thinking the UK was a decent place to live with tolerant people - well, that has changed quite a lot. If he's in a profession, he will have no trouble finding a good job elsewhere in Europe.

At the same time I can see why you don't want to be uprooted - the risks for you of moving abroad are considerable, you have your DCs to think about as well as your own job prospects. With your recent redundancy and having a new baby you are probably feeling shattered in so many ways.

All i can say is keep talking and don't make any hasty decisions. Good luck to both of you.

When you got together surely you talked about which country you would live in. Had you ever agreed to move to his country?

FWIW I can see 100% why you would want to stay.

Oh yes, good point pointythings, it could be the Brexit vote making him feel this way. I was thinking it was maybe him resenting you no longer having to do the commute while he still does, but it could well be what's prompted this.

Thank you all for the sensible responses. I was a bit emotional when I wrote the OP so some of it was not entirely rational thinking. We have had some more serious conversations about it and agreed that both our feelings are important but we are basically at an impasse so one of us will have to compromise... and I realise my 'single mum' alternative is really silly, we have an otherwise happy marriage!

Yes, Brexit is definitely a part of it. I also know there's also the feeling of being trapped because where we live, his employer is the only big employer in that field, so the only way to progress in his career would be to either move elsewhere in this country, i.e. closer to London, or move abroad. Moving abroad seems to have more advantages than moving within the UK though.

I have thought about it some more and although in my heart I want to stay here in my home town, I know it's not ideal to expect to stay here forever, essentially trapping him with the same employer until he retires. Before I was made redundant I had a profession too, and I would also have more opportunities to go back to work one day if we moved closer to a bigger city or abroad. There are some other advantages too - the schools seem much better there and the kids would be bilingual. FWIW the country is Switzerland so the standard of living is high.

I might have to agree to a 'trial' as splendidisolation suggested although it would be quite difficult to come back if I didn't like it, even if we keep our house here - he'd probably have to apply back to the same employer again. But at least psychologically I'd be able to reassure myself that it's a trial... Not sure what would happen if I absolutely hate it and DH refuses to come back though.

SeaCabbage and some others asked if we didn't think about this before settling down etc. Well, we've always talked about moving to his country and agreed it was a possibility one day, I've always loved the idea as a hypothetical, it's just the reality of leaving the UK and my family behind that scares me. And a couple of years ago, before this whole Brexit mess, he even took British citizenship, so I assumed he was happily settled here. Although, last year we came very close to moving, he was offered a job there, but it fell through and I felt so relieved. I was pregnant at the time.

I still don't want to move but I think I'm going to have to convince myself

While I certainly agree that brexit is bringing out the worst of some aspects of our society, I would caution you against expecting Switzerland to be a bastion of tolerance and understanding to foreigners. Said with 10 years experience and both children born there...

Of course you are not entitled to any less of a say. You do need to think of your children though. If you move away will they have a better quality of life? (E.g. Because you've moved to a better country). Will your husband earn more money/see them more? Will you be able to find work in this other place? As an expat I totally get it, I often just want to pack up and go back home because life in the UK isn't ideal. There are moments when I am so frustrated by it that I can't stand the thought of raising our children here. But on balance, provided that we get them into our prep school of choice, they will receive a far better education here. If I ignore the hopeless transport links and absolutely terrible healthcare, ott work culture, high taxes etc. I do actually prefer Britain. If things go according to plan and we make enormous changes money I wouldn't mind it at all.

pog100 Yes I'm aware of that. Fortunately DH and the kids are not "foreigners" there so I would be the only Auslander...

Ttbb The salary would be higher but we probably wouldn't be able to afford to live in such a nice house with a garden like we currently have, because most people live in apartments there... although they are generally pretty high quality apartments.

DH wouldn't necessarily have more time with us than he currently has, but on the other hand he would have more time with us compared to getting a job in London and having a long London commute.

Other aspects: less to do there in terms of the types of kids days out we have here in the UK, people do more outdoorsy stuff like hiking, swimming, skiing, cycling etc. All well and good but I'm not that outdoorsy I like a nice walk now and then but I can't see myself taking the kids on active days out several time a week!

The thing is, there's nothing much I dislike about moving abroad, its more just that there's so much I like about where I currently live. Leaving that all behind and taking a risk is what scares me. If we were both a bit miserable here I'd happily move because there would be more of an incentive. But I'm so happy here it's hard to tear myself away from the place I love

It is really hard op. Good to hear your update though and that you were able to talk it through with your op and that you feel a bit more rational about it now.

One thing which would be huge positive would be having DC learning another language so young. Look up the latest research. There are significant benefits in brain development when you are brought up bilingually from a v young age.

It's a tough situation but I think if your gut says that you want to stay you need to listen to it. I find it worrying that he brought this up so soon after the birth of your DC. Give it 6 months and see how you feel.

I'm glad you have been able to have a sensible conversation about it. You sound like a really solid couple and whatever decision you come to will be the best for all of you.

It's a brilliant opportunity IMO. View it is a two year stint. Life is all about grabbing life experiences and I'm sure this will be positive whether it's long term or not. We had an awesome two year stint somewhere and even though we were apprehensive wouldn't have swapped it for the world.

OP - Well, you hit the jackpot there with it being Switzerland! No country is perfect and CH has its downsides like anywhere, but it's one of the countries we lived in as expats and we had an awesome time there.

All of us kids are also perfectly bilingual German/English as a result of partially growing up there. We're also excellent skiiers which I guess is somewhat useful 😂

It's beautiful, safe and clean, and the cities have major expat communities which means you should have no trouble forging a community for yourself and making some good friends.

Again, CH does have its downsides.

But I personally believe you would be a fool not to give it a go. (Meant in a nice way!).