DH wants to move abroad and I really, really don't want to.

[BayLeaves]

I don't know what to do.

DH wants to move abroad, ideally to his home country in Europe.

I don't want to move. We live in the town I grew up in, I lived elsewhere for 12 years and we moved back here 4 years ago. I don't find it that easy to make new friendships but recently I've finally made some good mum friends and I'm also near my parents, I have two separate grandparents living nearby from different sides, as well as various aunts, uncles, etc. I feel so happy and settled here, I love our house and I love all the things to do locally with our 2 kids, I just really enjoy it. We have a 3 year old and a 2 month old and I feel like I really really need that social/support network.

We've got a new baby and even a week or so after he was born DH kept talking about wanting to move away. It made me feel so sad because I feel like even the birth of a new baby was not special enough to keep him away from this obsession with moving away.

DH has a long commute and until recently I did the same commmute. Now I've been made redundant and so I'm on indefinite "maternity leave". He's fed up with the commute and wants to advance his career elsewhere, he's even been headhunted by other companies in various locations. There aren't any other good jobs in our field locally. I think moving far away is DH's solution to that problem.

As I'm not actually working or contributing income, am entitled to less of a say? Do I need to just move wherever DH goes now that he's the only breadwinner? I sometimes wonder if I'd rather be a single mum living in a council flat but still live here with my friends and family, rather than have a big house with DH somewhere else so that he can advance his career.

I don't know what to do but DH seems miserable about being here. I just wish I'd know his intentions before we settled down in my home town, bought a house and had two kids here

I think he should trial living over there on his own and commuting back if he's so desperate to go. It will be very hard for you with such a young baby if you are not keen.

This is our experience: I moved to Switzerland with a week old baby and a two and half year old. Husband had already moved 4 months previously. My husband was travelling 70% of the time, I didn't speak the language and I did not know one person - Like you I was very very happy were I was living and I did not want to go in the slightest. I used to cry quite a lot as I was pregnant and could not cope psychologically with the change. In fact, I would say that I was quite like you in some ways though I could see that a move really made sense.
Of course, it was a bloody tough first year, but we got through though. I would say that I'm quite resilient and I managed alone and was sometimes lonely but I went to baby groups, made the initiative with friends etc..

Forward to 15 years later, and we're here for the long term. Kids are now both in High Schools, multi - lingual speakers and integrated in Swiss life. We ski every weekend in the winter (kids learned when they were three, ski like demons and and ski competitively). We have a good standard of living, travel a lot. Overall I think that we live a better life than we had in the UK or would have had (at least compared to our peers) at this point in our lives... Good work opportunities for me have worked out for me as well. We travel frequently to the UK and I meet up with friends at least once a year on my own to I keep friendships going.

I think I have sacrificed a lot, I don't have the kind of community I enjoyed so much any more, I struggle still with the language and miss out on family life to some extent, but overall it's been worth it. Kids now have a great future (even Uni with out fees), speaking many languages and DH is at a good point in his career.

This was how it worked out for us. We each have to make our own decisions and form our own paths in life. If I really didn't want to go, my DH would not have gone without me or gone to the interviews.

Good luck, keep us posted!

Me and my OH are in a similar situation. In the end we realised that since we both want to live in our home country, one of us will always have to compromise, so we decided based on what is best for the kids. We listed all the pros and cons and thought about the fact that wherever we chose would be where they would primarily see themselves as "from" in the future.

Well seeing the political situation in the UK atm and how the UK government is treating Europeans, I would want to move out ASAP.
If I was at his place, I would feel very insecure and would jump at the opportunity to go and live somewhere safe. Somewhere the chance of being split as a family isn't going to grow up exponentially. (See the last report of what the government is planning to do with EU citizens - unable to stay more than4~5 years at best etc...)

I'm an EU citizens btw. H is British and refuses to move. Same than you. I resent him enormously for not putting his family first and risking to see us split.

@EternalOptimistToo
While I am vehemently anti-brexit and very European in attitude, the OP had stated that her husband has British Citizenship independently of marriage to her and is indistinguishable from a 'native' UK citizen. I don't think your fears, founded as they might be for you, are relevant to her. Tolerance of others may be at a low point in the UK at the moment but as I said earlier Switzerland has never been noted for its tolerance of others in its history nor indeed is it any more EU then the UK will be post brexit

OP it sounds as though you would be too vulnerable in every way if you moved with your DH.

Where I work in London, the office is very 'EU' and it is quite common for husbands from EU countries to work here during the week and then return to their home countries and families at weekends. If your DH is offered a job in Switzerland (and this hasn't actually happened yet) would you consider this option?

Wow, so you DH hasn't lived in Switzerland since he was a kid himself? That puts a whole other slant on your predicament OP. I was thinking he'd moved to the UK as an adult and was missing his mates, his family, the lovely upbringing he'd had, etc. But it doesn't sound like that at all now - instead it sounds like he has 'grass is greener' syndrome. He's unhappy in his job in the UK, so instead of either trying to fix it, or looking at practical solutions nearer home, he's fixated on the drastic option of uprooting the whole family.

You sound very kind and sympathetic to all the above and he's lucky to have such an understanding wife, but OP I don't think either of you is thinking straight. You're in the sleep-deprived fog everyone is in when they have an 8-week-old baby and he's got tunnel vision for this move to Switzerland. In all honesty I would put the brakes on this thing right now. You can't be expected to move away from your family and everything you hold dear when you have a newborn baby, nor should he be expecting you to or putting so much pressure on you at this time of your life. You're the one doing all the compromising here, he isn't thinking about you at all!

Please tell him that this is not the right time and that you're not in a fit state to make such a momentous decision. You should at least be sleeping properly before deciding to move to another country. For everyone who raves about how wonderful Switzerland is to live in another will tell you how bloody awful it is. My DH lived there for a year and he fucking hated it! Never got to grips with Schweitzerdeutsch, said how insular and humourless the Swiss are, and how dull the country is (aside from the stunning scenery). Seriously - put the brakes on - at least until you can think straight. If you loves you and gives a shit about your happiness he will understand that you can't be expected to make this decision now and in such a rush.

airedailleurs and others who have suggested the commuting between countries option... I have considered it but I'm not really keen on this idea as it feels like splitting the family up, besides I really love seeing my husband doing bedtime stories etc and he would be a bit of an absent father if we didn't live together full time. I think I'd rather take the plunge and move than go for that option.

DH wrote me an actual pen and paper letter acknowledging my feelings and saying how much this would mean to him, and trying to reassure me about the challenges. Which is a pretty big deal for him as he's never written me a letter before and he's not always that great at expressing feelings etc... but obviously he does have an agenda so I'm not going to be swayed by a simple letter. At least he's trying to see things from my perspective though.

I am finding myself trying to be positive about it and trying to plan for the move already. I've said I don't want to go but we are at an impasse and I'm worried if I keep complaining about it and then go anyway, I will have put myself in a really negative mindset and that's not a recipe for success either.

Yes EternalOptimistToo luckily he has British citizenship so we are not in that situation.

Thank you for sharing your experience caffelatte100, that is really helpful.

I also like DiegoMadonna's strategy of listing the pros and cons and deciding what's best for the kids rather than just what I prefer. I am now trying to think of it from that perspective. I've been researching their pre-school and primary education system. Interestingly there was a good thread on MN yesterday about the pros and cons of starting school as early as we do in the UK.

My older son has just started pre-school here, he's really enjoying it, and if we moved in the next few months he'd have to wait at least another 8 months before being able to do a few mornings of kindergarten. But overall I do like their more relaxed approach to the early years of education.

It sounds like you're ignoring your feelings and are trying to talk yourself into it.

teaandtoast I don't think it's as simple as that. If one partner desperately wants to live in one place and the other desperately wants to live somewhere else, one of you has to compromise! There's no easy way around that. Or you both compromise and move to a different country altogether!

teaandtoast You're right that I am sort of trying to talk myself into it, but I am not ignoring my feelings... I am very much thinking about my feelings, and my husband's feelings, my kids' feelings, everyone's bloody feelings... it's overwhelming! But like DiegoMadonna said, there's no easy way round it, someone has to compromise. I am just trying to prepare myself for the eventuality that DH gets a brilliant job offer with a great salary and we would then have to seriously, and quite quickly, make a decision. Bit miffed that he insisted on applying for jobs to test the water before me actually agreeing to move but oh well.

What will his hours be in his new job ? If they are long you may well find yourself with and absent parent and him only seeing the kids for two/one nights a week

What has he said, in his letter or verbally, about the challenges and how he will help with them? Has he made assurances about protecting family time, not letting work take over, budgeting for regular visits back to the UK for you?

My last input on this (I'm sure you're relieved!)

Just reread your title - '..I really, really don't want to.'

Have you fully explored options of moving within the uk? You said there are other employers closer to London?

Staying in the uk avoids the major problem of the Hague convention and you not being able to move kids back to uk without his permission. Yes it is a compromise as presumably moving closer to london will be more expensive and you'll miss out on the benefits of Switzerland other posters have described. But if you have any concern that he might block you returning kids to uk if you split then I wouldn't move abroad (unless you'd be willing to settle there yourself after a divorce).

I do think the family needs to move somewhere to help both your careers. Having one wage earner commuting a long way to a job without progression, with only one employer in the area, and the other partner made redundant with no opportunities locally, is not a great situation. If he was made redundant too you'd need to move sharpish, and what if the only job offers he had at that time were abroad? I'd look at this as an opportunity to spend some time finding a good place to move to in the uk.

I think finding somewhere you can work in the future too is important, especially if your dh is trying to steamroller you here. Good that you have the opportunity to forge independent finances when your baby is older.

I have friends who emigrated to Switzerland and the DH works very long hours and barely sees his DC. She would likely see more of him if she'd remained in the UK and he had commuted weekly (she has a good career there though). I don't know what the expectation is of working hours in your DH's industry, but I do know it is much more traditional there and my friend has experienced a lot of sexism and generally unhelpful practices, like schools only being open in the morning and little expectation of fathers doing much in a hands-on way with the DC.

Q: Does your husband speak the local language since he's not been there for so long? If so, has he been speaking it to the children?

At least you know your least favoured option is not to live apart, I think that is very wise. Long term it's difficult/dangerous.

Phineyj is right, it is quite traditional in the roles but it depends a bit where you live and some men do work long hours but they also do in London and many other places too.

At the moment though, your DH has not got an interview. How likely do you think it is that he'll get a job that he wants?

And what about you, Caffelatte? what did the move enable you to do?

Sounds like it's moving quickly - the exact same happened to me. A year on I'm still here in the UK and my two children are now settled into school.

My husband is missing out on so much, birthdays, first day at school.. and so on. Is it worth the money? No, I'd rather have very little and a happy family. Truth is now he's not willing to come back, do the London commute for a fraction of the salary! So it's put up and shut up or walk away .. sorry to put a negative slant on all this but just wanted you to know what could happen.

Okay, I am going against the grain here. I don't think you should go.

@WorkingBling you're hardly going against the grain. Most replies are saying not to go.

OP, personally I would go with a written agreement that you will both review the arrangement after 3 years (or similar).

I'm 15 years into an expat move and do often wonder or wish we had stayed. But then, I have enjoyed and appreciated the adventure of it. I would stagnate in a small home town and I would always wonder about how life might have been abroad.

Everyone is different but I couldn't handle living with someone who resented me and our life so much so I would attempt a limited, fair deal about living overseas.

You could also consider counselling to help you both come to a fair agreement.

Swiss Christmas Museum.
And what about you, Caffelatte? what did the move enable you to do?

Well, at first very little really apart from the chance to be a SAHM for a while which in the UK was harder financially. I have to say that initially I was (sort of) happy to sacrifice a large amount for myself for my husband's career. We were at the point where it was harder to progress to a larger house in the UK and husband was miserable with his job, hours and pay.

I love living in a functional, clean and safe place. Switzerland is so beautiful as well. We swim in lakes in the summer months while looking at snow capped mountains. I have come to love the mountains (did not like them initially) - and love snow boarding and skiing. We have our own ski place now, which we could not afford when we first moved out, and so every Friday after work and school we go and stay three nights chilling out in the mountains and enjoying the outdoors. That's nice for our relationship and stress levels.

Husband doesn't work abroad much now so we see each other a lot, even though he does a 60 plus hour week, but then I work really hard too so it's ok for me, though can be a bone of contention.

We are saving, husband progressing well with career and that will also benefit me as together we are building a nest egg for the future. I have my own great work opportunities now and I love what I am doing and that cannot be transferred to many countries. I have quite a lot of friends too now.

I also get a large amount of personal satisfaction that my kids have had good opportunities too, from the unhurried start at Kindergarten, playing in the forests and to now being fully bilingual and independent. From walking alone to KG at 4 years old to being able to travel on trains and buses, even long distances, the kids are really independent now. Public transport is really reliable and safe. Educationally they've done well with the swiss system but it's tough at times for them too.

The whole thing has been a journey and is hard work at times though, not a bed of roses as it might sound. I am glad to live here even though I have sacrificed a lot: it's not perfect and despite the fact that I felt very much like the OP describes that she feels! So, it was a gamble initially and when we found out he had secured a job I cried, as did my mum!

The thing that might be different to the OP is that I know that if I had been miserable, I was very confident that my husband would have been willing to come back to the UK (or try somewhere else), we've both lived in many countries so this didn't seem too alien a concept for us.

Well, I would go.
I have moved countries, towns and once, spent 12 years living so remotely the nearest town was two hours away. Everything had its challenges, but we were fine. I'm now a 14 hour drive away from my family but it's workable.

The ideal time to do something like this is when your children are small. And babies can be a great way of meeting other people. If your husband was suggesting such a move when the kids were nearing high school or in high school, I'd say he was out of order but he isn't.

He's also completely going the right way about it by testing the water with jobs, before moving. We have done both that, and taken a mad leap of faith, with no work. Having a job before the move was much better for our stress levels. Be happy he's approaching this sensibly.

I sort of think too, you have had four years of what you wanted, and maybe it's time to compromise and give him the same courtesy. It doesn't sound like this is something he has sprung on you from nowhere. You are very happy, but your husband is obviously not. Maybe you can reach a median. I know it seems scary but in all likelihood you will be fine. Keep the house in your home town, rent it out and that way you know you have the security to return if you need to.

I discussed with my husband a time frame for all our moves, when we would settle for the high school years, what if I hated it ( gave it three years each time) and we kept to it. And it worked well, though I still grocery shop like I'm preparing for nuclear war - given the distance I used to have to travel for everything.

I believe life is the better for change, and challenges - and we've had both, but our kids have a wealth of life experience they would never have had without moving around and they are better and braver for it with a wider view of people and the world than they would get parked in their home town forever.

Good luck, it wouldn't necessarily be forever annd it could be amazing.

I say go for it - and I'm an anxious person so I know the feelings that brings up. I think your DH has spent a long time in the UK and obviously has a yearning for a return home - if that can be achieved via a job that gives a decent (for you all) standard of living then I think its worth exploring (properly!) It is only Switzerland to be fair... he's not asking you to move to Chechnya - so you will have the ability to access multi cultural/multilingual groups etc. And I do think whether you stay for 2 years, 5 years or 10 + it will be an experience for your children will be hugely beneficial. That said, I'm a homebody and I've taken some drastic decisions in the past to avoid travel situations so I do get where you're coming from but.... do I regret that - yes I do... Would it help you to get more involved in the potential planning -so you're not saying yes, but you're actively looking at place to live, school/preschool options, so you feel you're taking control of what your aspect of live in Switzerland would look like?

First of all, you have my sympathy - a very difficult situation where it sounds like either option will require a great sacrifice from one of you.

Having said that, I think your DP's future in your current situation sounds pretty definitely rubbish - long commute, unsatisying job with little chance of progression. I suspect your future in Switzerland might just at the minute be uncertain, rather than definitely bad? So I think you are doing the right thing by trying to think about the positives of such a move for you (alongside the obvious negatives).

We moved our family back to DP's home country when our first DC was very little; I was still on maternity leave but of course had to resign from what was a lucrative and successful career. DP had been offered a brilliant job with lots of potential for career advancement and, most importantly, more time at home with the family. We went from living very close to my family to living near no family at all and we were a long, long way from my friends and family once we'd moved. On paper, it definitely looked like I was giving everything up to allow DP to chase career success, but in reality it wouldn't really be fair to see it like that. I did give up proximity to my friends and family and my job, but as a family we gained: more time together, a far happier and socially progressive country than the UK, a beautiful house/ land we could never have afforded where we were living in the UK, relative proximity to DP's family, better weather and a more outdoorsy lifestyle and a whole new world of friends I could never have imagined before we moved. So you never know! Might not be all doom and gloom.

Personally, I would try and look on the bright side and wait until the move was a concrete option before sitting down together and really deciding. If at that point you are still really unhappy about moving, then your DP would be daft to insist - he'll just swap job/commute stress for the stressful of coming home each night to a lonely, miserable partner who may well feel he is to blame for her unhappiness...

Wishing you the best of luck.

Think you should go. Sometimes our feelings aren't always right.