DH stag do

[shamenamechange]

Name-changed because I'm completely ashamed of how pathetic I'm being...

I have general anxiety disorder and PTSD which was triggered by a sudden abandonment in childhood. I've been dealing with it all my life. DH and I had issues at the very beginning of our relationship where he suddenly ended things while he was out of the country and disappeared from my life pretty much without a word for over a year. It was a very complex situation but essentially he had a nervous breakdown triggered by the death of a close relative. This obviously led to my PTSD flaring up quite seriously. We're now 7 years on and have been to lots of counselling etc to work through it which has really helped, but we have definitely developed a bit of a co-dependent relationship as a result - we've never spent a night apart (through circumstance but also through mutual choice - i.e. when one of us has gone away for work, the other has come too).

Anyway, DH has been invited to the stag do of one of his old university friends. While the stag isn't a particularly close friend, it will mean getting together with his whole group of friends, some of whom we haven't seen in a year or so. Importantly, we might not be able to go to the wedding (for practical reasons beyond our control) though we'll do our best to be there.

The problem is, I really don't want him to go. There are some sensible and justified reasons why (I think?!!) but they're all so tied up in the emotional/PTSD-brain reasons that I can't trust that I'm not just being completely unreasonable. I was hoping you all would (gently) help me figure out what's reasonable and what's not, and whether or not I should say something to DH.

This is how I see it...

Reasonable:

• We've just bought a house and are about to have twins so are pretty much broke, and this stag do will cost upwards of £600. We CAN afford it in that we can take it out of our savings but they're for house renovations / baby things / covering my mat leave so it's not ideal.

• I will be around 26 weeks into my pregnancy by the time of the stag do. I've had 2 previous miscarriages (albeit both in the first trimester) and I'm scared of being here on my own in case something goes wrong. He'll be at least 5 hours away, including a flight.

• We now live in a different country so I have no friends or family around for support or company.

• Bit outing but the stag do is in the location where DH's close relative passed away and he always swore he would never go back because it would be too distressing (and has avoided doing so in the past). I'm scared being there will trigger another breakdown.

Unreasonable:

• I get really bad anxiety around his safety, especially when he flies and I will be anxious for months in the run up as well as the whole time he's there. The last time he flew I had several panic attacks and cried for the entire time he was in the air.

• I know I'll spend the whole weekend paralysed with anxiety and not able to do anything - I know everyone will recommend that I watch films/chill out/enjoy alone time etc etc but I absolutely will not be able to. I manage this okay when it's for shorter periods e.g. when DH goes out for the day/evening, but I can't bear the thought of having to do it for such a long stretch of time. This is made worse with him being out of the country - it triggers memories of our break up and while logically I know that wouldn't happen again, it still stays in my mind.

I KNOW these two things are my problems and mine alone and normally I'd just suck it up and deal with it but I'm worried about it impacting the babies.

I'm not worried about him being at a stag do, DH is really not the kind of guy to visit strip clubs/cheat and nor are his friends, but I'll worry regardless because I'm insane but I don't think it's a good enough reason to even include on this list as it is 100% my insecurities, he's never really given me any reason to worry.

I haven't said anything to DH, although I suspect he knows me well enough to know I'd be worried. He's a bit concerned about the money thing and also about the babies, and is considering not attending of his own accord, so I know that if I also raised concerns then he wouldn't go.

But I don't want to say anything until I've figured out if a "normal" non-anxious, non-PTSD-having person would do the same. My PTSD already controls so much of my life - I try really hard to stop it from impacting DH any more than it already does.

My counsellor recommended talking to DH about it but I know that if I do, he just won't go!

Please help me, Mumsnet and sorry this is so long, just didn't want to dripfeed!

MatildaTheCat Yes you're definitely right in that I have time to do some preparation and I think I'll suggest that to DH (if he decides to go - if I mention it beforehand he'll know I'm anxious and then definitely NOT go!).

It's amazing to hear that facing your fear has helped you to tackle your PTSD. I've got so many triggers and symptoms under control over the past few years and this is really the only / worst one left, so it would definitely be incredible to tackle it.

Thank you so much for replying and congratulations on your success.

@Likeawolf You've made me cry (in a good way!) - what a lovely and thoughtful comment. Thank you so, so much for taking the time to reply to me.

It's difficult because he's so utterly lovely and loving that I know that if he thought I'd be anxious or upset he wouldn't go. But perhaps if I can frame it differently and explain that I think I need to tackle the trigger of spending nights apart, and make the discussion be more about whether or not this is the right time / circumstance for me to do that, that might help him to feel free to still go. And you're probably right that he'd see straight through any attempts to pretend to be okay with it if I'm not!

Of course he should go. I hope this thread allows you to not be so anxious about it.

8Oblomov17 If only it was that easy! But it has been very helpful talking it through.

I massively empathise with you as I've never been diagnosed with anxiety I have pretty much the same feelings as you about these things. I'm also really worried whenever DH goes away about safety (terrorism) etc and other irrational things like him getting too drunk and falling in canals (I know I know - ridiculous).

The best way to get over it that I've found is to face it - as long as everything goes well you'll find the more he is away the easier it gets. Maybe compromise on things that will make you rest easier i.e. ask him to keep his phone to hand and text you back if you have a bit of a panic and want to check he's ok. The worst thing for me was when he'd just not text back for aaaages and I'd freak out. Just hearing from him every now and then made me feel loads more relaxed and I could switch off then, once I got used to it.

Whatever happens you have my sympathies - I totally get where you're coming from and it's poo

@JaneDoe99 It's so horrible being so paranoid about things that you know are completely irrational, isn't it? I know the chances of DH's plane crashing are so slim as to be invisible and yet I'm already breathless with worry that it might. So hard to handle.

He would definitely be willing to support me by texting back etc but of course unfortunately during the worst part (the plane journey) this isn't possible. But there are definitely things we could agree on that would help for the rest of it.

Well done on tackling it yourself

The thing that stands out - glaringly - from your post is your remarkable self awareness. You are falling over backwards to not allow your mental health to impact on your feelings. In this case though, I think it's blurring the issue. I, thankfully, don't have your problems, but I would not be happy, at your stage of pregnancy and to the tune of £600 of earmarked money, to be backing this trip. You know you have a lot of work to do to get to full mental health, and it seems you are doing all the right things. I'm sure your counsellor will tell you that communication in any relationship is key, so have a talk with your husband, owning your feelings, and hopefully you will reach the right decision together. I really do admire the work you're doing on yourself.

Thank you @AutumnRose8 - that's exactly what I was concerned about, that my anxiety could be blurring the issue and stopping me from seeing a clear picture. Lots of people obviously WOULD be happy for him to go so I don't think I'm completely home and dry but it is really helpful to know that others think the practical reasons are enough of a case to say it's not a good idea. I really appreciate you replying, thank you.

I think the cost and the fact you are pregnant are good enough reasons not to go. Otherwise I would say yeah he should but £600 on a stag do? Nah bit excessive, maybe if he was the best man, but he's not even a close friend of the groom from what you said so why does it matter if he goes?

Barbaro He is definitely a good friend, just not one of his best friends - I didn't mean to be misleading there.

Thank you all so much for your thoughts and advice - it's been so helpful to talk this through and get your differing perspectives. It's also been a real eye-opener for me into what a difference a gentle (or unkind) comment can make to an OP!

I've decided that I'm going to just let DH talk first and ask him if he wants to/thinks he should go. Then if he decides the practical considerations are okay in terms of money and the babies, I'll speak to him about ways we can make it slightly easier for me (doing a "practice" night apart beforehand, possibly cutting it down to 2 nights instead of 3, etc).

Thank you again for all your help and advice.

I don't think I have ever disagreed with Hellsbells and this isn't even a disagreement

But about taking is gradually vs going in at the deep end with any possible trigger... I expect it depends on the individual. I don't it's if it's out of favour now, or even discredited but there certainly used to be a belief in flooding therapy for phobias - instead of talking about spiders, to seeing a picture etc, it was about just going right in and holding a tarantula... I'm probably horribly simplifying it! But if the anxiety is going to be off the scale for a small change as well as a big one, it's like being hung for a sheep instead of a lamb. I wouldn't rule out talking to your counsellor about how small the steps have to be.

Good luck

Would watching his flight on Flightracker app just give you more anxiety, or help you hold at bay fears that there was a problem?

Hey - maybe you'd find that soooooo flipping dull for a whole flight that your brain would switch off from it completely and you'd have invented a whole new relaxation technique

I think it's a lot of money personally. If you have plenty savings, then fine, but that would be my only objection.

Plus the potential for him to have a breakdown, being where his friend passed away.

@shamenamechange I think that one of the things you and your DH need to discuss is your support structure while he is gone. Your anxiety aside, who you would you call if you feared something was going wrong with the pregnancy? Is the plan that you get in a taxi by yourself and go to the hospital?

I'm honestly surprised that no one is concerned about you being where you don't have any friends or family and being pregnant. May be I'm the only one on the thread who went through a pregnancy that way. We relocated for my DH's job when I was 2 months along. It was a tough pregnancy. As it is, you have a higher than average change of PPD.

I agree that you and your spouse need to work on independence, but I seriously question that this is the ideal time or way. If anything went wrong, it would wreck you both. Over a stag party. A stupid stag party.

Thanks @TrailingWife, I didn't realise it increased your risk of PPD - I'll definitely be on the lookout for that. We're hoping that by the time the babies arrive we'll have built up more of a support network and my parents' are planning on coming over (not to stay with us but nearby) for a while when DH goes back to work, so that will really help.

It turned out all the angsting was for nothing (sort of) as when I got home DH had decided he didn't think it was a good idea to go because of the money and also because he felt it was too late in my pregnancy to leave me alone. So I didn't have to say anything! However, I DID talk to him about it anyway (as much as I wanted to just bury it under the carpet!) and explained my thoughts and all my reasonable and unreasonable reasons! He agreed with all the reasonable ones but said that if it was just a case of me being anxious, in this instance he still would have gone as it's important to him and he agrees it's time for me to start working through it.

So I suggested he invite his best friend over and they go hiking and camping for a day or two. That seems like a good place to start and means that I can hang out with his best friend's very sensible, non-anxious wife, which will be very good for me! Baby steps, but in the right direction.

Thank you again for all of your help and support, everyone - it was so helpful to be able to organise my thoughts and get alternative perspectives.

£600 is a ridiculous amount to spend on a weekend away when it impacts further down the line.

Especially when it is savings for house renovations, baby stuff or could cutting into maternity leave with twins.

What baby stuff do you need and how much would be left over?

Hmm it's hard to say he shouldn't go cos it may do him good, but I don't think people really get the gravity of anxiety in your case, I certainly think you should be honest with him. I think in an ideal world he should of course be able to go, but it's not and your pregnant anxious, alone and scared so it may be better he doesn't go. It's horrible feeling the way you do, your not being selfish you can't help feeling the way you do and the fact your feeling guilty tells me your not selfish at all. Have a good chat with him

It does seem like a pretty bad time to start exposure therapy to being apart. Seems to me that the first time you spend a night apart should not be several nights at a great distance, iyswim. It's not always the best idea to dive headfirst into a very big trigger rather than start smaller and work your way up.

How far off is the do? Would it be possible for the two of you to build up to being apart like that, in the interim? Some sort of practise where he spends one night at a mate's/relatives/hotel nearby for one night, to see how you do, prove to yourself you'll be fine, before the really big separation? Then maybe he spends two nights, out later?

Would it be possible to do something like that? I think it could help ease into the separation for the stag do.

Oops sorry, I think I posted too soon.

"Then maybe he spends two nights, out later?" should have said Then maybe he spends two nights out, or one night farther away...

In isolation your valid reasons are valid enough for discussion but when you add the rest it is clear that this relationship is not normal in the traditional sense and there is a big danger that long term problems could lurk ahead if you do not tackle this. Going away with each other when one works away isn't normal and how do you do that anyway if you both work? Do you take time off to do it?

I find it unusual that someone with anxiety as bad as your ls clearly is agreed to move away From family. Why did you agree to that and how did that affect you?

Your world is about to be thrown upside down. If you worry about him going on a flight then you will never stop when your children are born. They worry you when they haven't done a poo for 2 days!

I assume you have been through CBT programmes and are on the strongest meds for your illness? If not you need to be. Revisit the CBT helpsheets. I suffer from anxiety and the one that help me is the "is this a problem now" - if not park it. Most are problems that your brain has perceived to be a future problem when in fact it is unlikely to be one at all.

Deal with the flying issue in other ways. There is more chance of him dropping dead falling down the stairs. You can overcome that. One way to do this is to reassure yourself with stats.

At some point you will have to let him do things without you being there. The relationship is too insular. People need time apart from time to time.

I hope you can find some answers as anxiety is an illness that people don't understand if they haven't had it. It is almost laughed off, yet at its worst it is debilitating. On my worst day I couldn't move, had the shakes and more. I actually thought I was going to die which looking back was very irrational. I still suffer to a degree even with meds and i wish I didn't as it can spoil parts of life.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

I don't think he should go. Yes, the reasons could be deemed as unreasonable but they are indicative of wider and real problems which you have. I don't agree the the approach of chucking people with anxiety in at the deep end to "help" them get over their problems and ultimately if he goes then that is what will happen. Anyone who suggests otherwise has, in my opinion, never experienced the paralysing and debilitating experience of suffering with true anxiety. Yes, you do have issues which you need to tackle, but you need to take it one step at a time, this is too much for you to handle right now and I think it will make your anxiety WORSE in the long run. Your DP should hopefully understand that this isn't you being controlling or demanding or unreasonable, its you suffering from a real and evil condition. All the best xx

Also, looking at pp. I am SICK TO DEATH of people with severe separation anxiety being called manipulative. If you had to spend just one day of your life living with this affliction you would know that this is not something done out of choice.

Here here winter winter !!

I don't think you're manipulative. But in the nicest way possible I think you should seek help to deal with your problems.

Also, you're pregnant. You'll be 26 weeks. That does not mean he shouldn't go away on the stag do. Why should it?? You won't be due then. You being pregnant shouldn't stop him from doing this.

It's not healthy to be co dependant. You need time to yourself as does he. In the whole time you've been together he hasn't been away without you.

Yes he 100% should go on this trip

Pregnant or not. Childhood problems or not. He should go.

You need time to yourself as well. Honestly I think you'll continue to find reasons for him to not go whether you were having twins or not.