DH stag do

[shamenamechange]

Name-changed because I'm completely ashamed of how pathetic I'm being...

I have general anxiety disorder and PTSD which was triggered by a sudden abandonment in childhood. I've been dealing with it all my life. DH and I had issues at the very beginning of our relationship where he suddenly ended things while he was out of the country and disappeared from my life pretty much without a word for over a year. It was a very complex situation but essentially he had a nervous breakdown triggered by the death of a close relative. This obviously led to my PTSD flaring up quite seriously. We're now 7 years on and have been to lots of counselling etc to work through it which has really helped, but we have definitely developed a bit of a co-dependent relationship as a result - we've never spent a night apart (through circumstance but also through mutual choice - i.e. when one of us has gone away for work, the other has come too).

Anyway, DH has been invited to the stag do of one of his old university friends. While the stag isn't a particularly close friend, it will mean getting together with his whole group of friends, some of whom we haven't seen in a year or so. Importantly, we might not be able to go to the wedding (for practical reasons beyond our control) though we'll do our best to be there.

The problem is, I really don't want him to go. There are some sensible and justified reasons why (I think?!!) but they're all so tied up in the emotional/PTSD-brain reasons that I can't trust that I'm not just being completely unreasonable. I was hoping you all would (gently) help me figure out what's reasonable and what's not, and whether or not I should say something to DH.

This is how I see it...

Reasonable:

• We've just bought a house and are about to have twins so are pretty much broke, and this stag do will cost upwards of £600. We CAN afford it in that we can take it out of our savings but they're for house renovations / baby things / covering my mat leave so it's not ideal.

• I will be around 26 weeks into my pregnancy by the time of the stag do. I've had 2 previous miscarriages (albeit both in the first trimester) and I'm scared of being here on my own in case something goes wrong. He'll be at least 5 hours away, including a flight.

• We now live in a different country so I have no friends or family around for support or company.

• Bit outing but the stag do is in the location where DH's close relative passed away and he always swore he would never go back because it would be too distressing (and has avoided doing so in the past). I'm scared being there will trigger another breakdown.

Unreasonable:

• I get really bad anxiety around his safety, especially when he flies and I will be anxious for months in the run up as well as the whole time he's there. The last time he flew I had several panic attacks and cried for the entire time he was in the air.

• I know I'll spend the whole weekend paralysed with anxiety and not able to do anything - I know everyone will recommend that I watch films/chill out/enjoy alone time etc etc but I absolutely will not be able to. I manage this okay when it's for shorter periods e.g. when DH goes out for the day/evening, but I can't bear the thought of having to do it for such a long stretch of time. This is made worse with him being out of the country - it triggers memories of our break up and while logically I know that wouldn't happen again, it still stays in my mind.

I KNOW these two things are my problems and mine alone and normally I'd just suck it up and deal with it but I'm worried about it impacting the babies.

I'm not worried about him being at a stag do, DH is really not the kind of guy to visit strip clubs/cheat and nor are his friends, but I'll worry regardless because I'm insane but I don't think it's a good enough reason to even include on this list as it is 100% my insecurities, he's never really given me any reason to worry.

I haven't said anything to DH, although I suspect he knows me well enough to know I'd be worried. He's a bit concerned about the money thing and also about the babies, and is considering not attending of his own accord, so I know that if I also raised concerns then he wouldn't go.

But I don't want to say anything until I've figured out if a "normal" non-anxious, non-PTSD-having person would do the same. My PTSD already controls so much of my life - I try really hard to stop it from impacting DH any more than it already does.

My counsellor recommended talking to DH about it but I know that if I do, he just won't go!

Please help me, Mumsnet and sorry this is so long, just didn't want to dripfeed!

OP (can't use your name, you shouldn't be ashamed) you don't need to explain, and I hope I wasn't patronising in suggesting them.

Very irritating when you've actively worked with a condition for years and a stranger says "oh have you tried..." like they have all the answers, if only you'd thought!

I'm deaf totally in one ear, since birth. Aged 30, a locum GP said "there's some wax - have you tried syringing?"
I was like "have you tried reading the consultant audiologist report?"

Good luck, whatever you decide.
And... twins! Exciting!

Thanks WhateverNameIsStillAvailable, it's interesting to get a perspective from someone else who has anxiety.

I don't think it's fair tbh for you to say what If I have a miscarriage etc. That just seems manipulating to me.

Goodness, I definitely wouldn't EVER say that to DH but he has raised himself that he's not sure about being so far away when I'm pregnant. This was in an email and I haven't replied yet so I haven't said anything.

Just food for thought... once the babies arrive you will have a lot more to worry about. Like when someone else drives your child, when they go to play dates, school tours etc. So it's very important for you to try and get this sorted or under control first.

Yes, this is a very good point and something i've been addressing with my counsellor. I've been pretty good about avoiding pregnancy anxiety which surprised both of us! So hoping i'll be up to the challenge. But all practice is good practice!

Aside from the money issue, the rest of it is not a reason for him to not go on this trip. You're about to become parents. You need to be able to function without each other for short periods of time, including a few nights away from each other.

See this as an opportunity to be apart. Try your hardest to prove to yourself and him that you can overcome this.

I don't think the additional (normal) worries of parenting will necessarily be a problem for the OP. It sounds like the issue is around specific triggers. Her response to those is extreme.

But how many people without PTSD would have coped with the normal anxiety of moving to a new country and doing it anyway?

HelenaDove We don't have everything we need yet but we have savings and should be able to afford it (barring emergencies).

fertilitykate With respect, whether or not it will be difficult for me isn't up for debate - it will be. That's not me being negative, it's me understanding my own mental health. But that's not the question here really.

Ellisandra Not at all - anxiety is something that sounds completely illogical when you haven't experienced it so I absoutely understand people making suggestions that are very rational and reasonable! And I really appreciate your wise and level-headed advice. :) Twins is VERY exciting - we can't wait!

AgathaF Knowing how proud he would be of me is definitely the thing that's making me lean towards not saying anything.

I don't think the additional (normal) worries of parenting will necessarily be a problem for the OP. It sounds like the issue is around specific triggers. Her response to those is extreme.

Yes, I think this is accurate (although I know someone with anxiety isn't necessarily the best judge of their own behaviour). I don't have pregnancy anxiety, I don't over-worry about friends and family, I've moved cities, jobs, countries etc many times, ended long-term relationships without trouble, hold down a very good (and stressful) job... issues around DH and I being apart are definitely my major trigger and over time are becoming the only trigger. Possibly even more of a reason to tackle it though! But I don't see it being triggered with the babies - it hasn't been so far, despite the miscarriages - but obviously I'll be keeping a very close eye on it.

Emergencies need to be factored in. Twins have a habit of coming early.

We can afford it in that we have £600 in savings but it could impact us down the line as I will need to go back from mat leave early if we run out of money

Based on this, I don't think he should go. It's a lot to spend on something non-essential and fun for one partner which could impact the whole family later on.

My DH and I are beginning to save with the aim of starting a family in the next few years, and he has had to decline a stag party of a similar cost because we both don't feel it is fair for him to spend the majority of our joint savings on a boozy weekend with his mates.

With regards to the anxiety, please don't put yourself down. You are not being pathetic. The fact that you are seeking advice on here as to whether or not it is fair for him to go shows you care for him and have good self awareness. I do think it will be important for you both to learn how to spend nights apart, especially as there might be times in your future where he needs to go away for a night at two and it won't be possible for you to accompany him with the babies.

However, I don't think a £600 stag party is the best place to start working on this.

Agree with bluedragon.

thebluedragon I really do love him and I want him to be happy, and I definitely don't want my problems to negatively impact his life. Up until now it's not been too bad as we both enjoy our time together, and I've worked through my anxiety enough for us to be able to also enjoy separate hobbies etc. But this would definitely be me holding him back from something he would want to do (IF I say anything) and if I did that I would want it to be for a fair and rational reason (i.e. the money/prgenancy, not my issues).

Thank you for being so understanding.

I do think it will be important for you both to learn how to spend nights apart

Yes, you're definitely right and I wish I'd started tackling it early tbh. I think in an ideal world for me, we would build it up. So a night apart, two nights apart, a night apart separated by a flight etc etc. But this is all my triggers at once and so will be a really daunting challenge.

Sorry, but you sound a bit manipulative and come across as using your PTSD for excuse for everything to get it your way.

I know it is an awful thing, PTSD, but it doesn't need to rule your life. It is like you like dwelling in it and using it as an excuse.

You sound like such hard work and so full on. Living with someone with MH is so hard. Let the poor guy go on the stag do. Let him have some bloody fun without your stress over it.

I think this trip would be like a heroin addict suddenly having nothing.
Ridiculous withdrawal etc....
So like any addict you should really think about doing this in a more controlled way.
Shorter time away from each other but nearer, etc....
One baby step at a time.
Going the whole hog after 7 years of 'addiction' and taking it all away suddenly really isn't the best way to go with everything you have going on.

And like you say - unless you've had severe anxiety and PTSD there is no way we can understand what OP will go through.
Like depression, you can't just say - oh cheer up!
It just doesn't work like that.
And until we are given more details and facts around mental health, it's something many of us will never understand.

So Flossy when does the OP get to spend £600 on a jolly for herself.

The OP is not being manipulative.

You sound like a "cool wife"

Sorry, but you sound a bit manipulative and come across as using your PTSD for excuse for everything to get it your way.

I have to say, this couldn't be further from the truth in real life... the whole point of me posting this post is to make sure i don't do that! You're entitled to call me hard work etc but it's very insulting to suggest that someone with PTSD (or any other mental health condition) uses it as an excuse.

Living with someone with a mental health condition is hard - but it's even harder to live with it yourself.

I'm really impressed you have that much of a handle on your own mental health issues to be totally aware of what might be considered reasonable and unreasonable!! Huge well done.

I think it's the wrong time to be leaving if you are 26 weeks pregnant with a history of miscarriage - I personally am 27 weeks pregnant with same unfortunate history and I have said a resounding "no" to everyone who has insisted I have a baby shower - and I think my fears are completely justified. And you can never guarantee there will be a flight back right when you needed one, I wouldn't wish a miscarriage whilst being alone on my worst enemy.

The spend of £600 is not that great either when you're in your situation. I could understand if DH was a close friend of the stag but he isn't. I think DH will probably come to his own conclusion that it's not the best time for a trip of this nature of his own accord.
xx

hellsbellsmelons You've actually just made me think that I could suggest DH goes away fro a single night before the stag do - there's still time for me to prepare in a more controlled and staggered way. Thank you for the inspiration!

Thanks RachelP247. It's taken a long time to get here and I'm still very unsure of myself a lot of the time, hence trying to figure out my thoughts here ahead of speaking to DH. It's been SO helpful.

To be fair, he IS a close friend of the stag - he's not one of his very best friends but they remain close as a group. If it didn't involve a flight (and so much money) it would be a no-brainer for him to go.

So sorry for your loss and congratulations on your pregnancy, I hope it all continues to go really well for you.

You are more than welcome.
I just really hope it helps.

How long is the stag do?
Could he maybe go for less of the time?

hellsbellsmelons It's 2 nights but he'd need to go for 3 to be able to attend all of it (because of flights). If I asked I suspect he would agree to go for less time. Just need to figure out if that's reasonable. It's difficult because DH really is so lovely and would bend over backwards to make me happy so i have to be really careful what i ask of him!

Bloke here.

£600 (plus spending money on top, I assume) is a lot to shell out for a jolly, particularly when you'll have to dip into savings to fund it.

I think for this reason alone it should be a "no." Add the other factors (time until birth mainly) and I'd hope he'd decide not to go off his own back.

IMO you should let him make the decision though.

Thanks Changedname3456 - I think that would include spending money providing he doesn't go crazy with the booze!

I think you're right that he should be the one to make the decision. I might just have to be non-committal either way and live with the anxiety while he decides.

Anxiety is so heightened when you are pregnant. I can totally sympathise I really suffered and I wasn't pregnant with twins in a foreign country. I struggled to be alone when expecting mine but that improved quickly when they were born. I don't think you are being unreasonable to ask him not to go. There will be other occasions where he can make up for it but right now you and the twins should be top of his list. Anxiety is not good for you or the babies. Please look after yourself

I have PTSD related to a very specific incident and person. Earlier this year it became evident that I was going to be forced to spend several days in the same room with this person. Someone whose name I couldn't say and could scarcely bear to hear.

I had no choice but to do it. In the last few weeks I did some graded exposure and during the time itself I had a support system in place and some strategies for getting through. It wasn't any fun but strangely, it wasn't quite what I'd feared either. You still have time to do some of this preparation. I know your support is limited but think of how you can make it work rather than what won't work.

I agree that two nights sounds more manageable than three. On that basis you would need to promise yourself to let him have a great and guilt free trip. You will feel a sense of achievement when you do this. I still have PTSD but strangely it has shifted somewhat. I'm still working on this! But I won't be defined by that person and hopefully you won't be either.

Start working out the best way of making it happen.

Thanks fatbottomgirl67. I'm definitely more emotional at the moment which has added to my concern to make sure i'm being rational before making any decisions.

OP I don't agree that you come across as manipulative at all. I think you sound like someone who is acutely aware of your issues (and how they affect both you and those around you) and who is working incredibly hard to address them. You also sound as if you have made great headway in doing so given you manage to hold down a stressful job, live abroad (away from support networks), have dealt with miscarriages, the break up of long-term relationships etc. And you clearly don't want your anxiety to affect the happiness of your DH or to be ungenerous to him.

I agree with some PP and you yourself that you will need to address the issue of being away from each other and putting an end to his absence triggering your anxiety (which frankly, given the history of him having a breakdown and disappearing, would be entirely understandable even without your PTSD!) Personally, I'm not sure this particular event is a good way to start this practice and process. It will be fairly late on in your pregnancy and involves a sum of money which could be significant to you as a family later on. So for purely practical reasons, it doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

But -- if he really wants to go/feels it will be the only opportunity to see his friends for a long time then I wouldn't try to stop him either. I think talking to him openly and honestly but trying to support him and feel he CAN go if he wants to is the best way forward. Not saying anything won't make your feelings disappear or resolve anything and it's best that the two of you decide between you what to do. There's no real point in trying to hide your anxiety from him as I'm sure he knows you well enough to see it! You might end up deciding between you that it would be a positive thing for him to do and you to deal with, or that it's just too much money and too far to go at your stage in your pregnancy. Either way, I think you need to talk to him, not just make a decision based on what MN tells you (wise and wonderful though we all are...)

I have to say I'm really admiring at what you are coping with/have coped with and your willingness to keep working at reducing your anxiety. Congratulations on your pregnancy. You sound like a really lovely and loving person and I'm sure will be more than fine on every front -- you have already proved as much by all you've gone through.