Really Need Your Help Ladies Please!

[Pete65]

My wife and I have been married for 23 years and have been together for 30. Two grown up kids and two grandsons we idolise. I love my wife very much and I believe her when she says she feels the same. I've had a problem with our relationship for around 10 years now though, in that my wife never plans or initiates anything. Holidays, social events, movie nights, date nights, romance, anything you might consider normal relationship stuff. She's more than happy to take part in anything I plan or initiate and is never obstructive for any of the things I suggest we do but if I don't make plans then we just end up doing nothing.

I have a real problem with this and it has caused us many issues over the years and is getting worse. The problem is all mine however as she seems happy pottering, watching her telly and getting on with her own life and isn't really bothered whether we do stuff together or not, as long as we're 'together'.

When I challenge her, I try to explain my logic, which is that it seems to me she isn't bothered whether we do stuff or not and it makes me feel unwanted and not really needed. My logic is that if you want to do something, you'll make it happen. If you don't try to make it happen then it doesn't bother you whether you do it or not. Her argument is that surely it doesn't matter which one of us organises these things, as long as we do them and enjoy it but my view is that I want to be with someone who makes me feel like they want to be with me and do things with me.

These issue raise their head mainly at very sociable times of year, summer / xmas and it's getting worse. I've suggested counselling, which hasn't gone down at all well. I really want to be with her and spend the rest of my life with her but we have to address this issue and part of that is working out for myself whether I'm realistic to expect this from her or whether I just have to reeducate myself into realising it doesn't matter who the initiator is as she says.

I've probably rambled without making much too much sense but I'm desperate for advice. Anything anyone can add to help me out will be very much appreciated.

Px

Obviously your wifes idea of "together" is very different to yours.
It would drive me mad living with someone who had no motivation or input into our relationship. Marriage is about compromise but not to the point where you subdue your needs for your partner.
A relationship is about give and take. You are doing all the giving.
Your wife sounds old before her time.
I think its time for tough love. You need to make her understand you find her lack of motivation frustrating and hard to live with. You may have to give her an ultimatum.
You have many years to live. Life is for enjoying loving and sharing and if she does not want that then you may have come to the end of the road.

Some people are useless with planning and organising, however I would expect that she'd make an effort since you've expressed how you feel about it.

Does she organise things with her friends or family? Or would she just go along?

It comes down to whether this is a deal breaker for you. Not about right or wrong. One person's right is another's wrong and a counsellor won't say he is right or she's right.

Could you try involving her in organising, even if you're the driver?

When one party is having this feeling and has expressed it, the other should make an effort IMO.

Not rambling at all. Could you do something where over the next month you take a day or an evening each to plan something? So you 'assign' (for want of a better word) her with a date night and say that it is hers to choose what you do. At the same time you tell her that you are going to organise a date night on another assigned date.

Do yours first and as the date progresses explain why you have chosen certain things- e.g. The film , the walk , the wine etc - because it's her favourite, or it has significance for you as a couple. Sort of walk her through the process and what goes into it.
Model the process for her if you get my meaning.

It may be that she just doesn't get it and why it is important rather than anything else. Does she get overwhelmed or anxious with organising things generally?
Sounds a bit formal but it might be a way of starting.

Forgot to add, if she thinks you'll be there no matter what, she's not going to change.

I'm not saying to make threats or issue ultimatums, but if it's that important to you, then you should let her know that you're uncertain about the future of the marriage because of that issue.

I think offering ultimatums is a really hard stance. I get that this means a lot to you, but is it something worth throwing away 23 years of marriage for? You say she's happy to along with whatever you plan, and it sounds to me like you're married to a woman who doesn't just find validation in being around you. She can be happy in her own company. I think that's great. What do you do on your own? I think if you want to shake her up a bit maybe start doing more activities by yourself. Then perhaps just refuse to do any more planning or arranging and see how that goes?

I have this with dp. If I don't suggest we go on holiday we would never go.

After 38 years the conclusion I have come to is it is a PA stance to take. If anything goes wrong then it is the organisers fault.

Should add as dp has got older he has added the proviso that he has to have 2 weeks notice to do anything which usually results in me going out and him staying in.

Last night ds and I decided to go to the cinema. Asked dp as we knew it was a film he would enjoy. Answer was no why didn't we ask a couple of weeks ago as he likes things properly organised.

It was the cinema. How organised do you have to be

Thank you for the prompt and frank responses. To be clear, I'm not about to walk out the door. I really want to spend the rest of my life with my wife, I think there are still avenues we can pursue to resolve this and I'm more than prepared to put the effort in. If eventually it doesn't work then I guess I'll have no choice but to take a different course. I think the main reason for my post was to gauge whether my view was unrealistic and to understand whether it was me that needed to reevaluate my approach to this but I think the feedback I'm getting is that I'm not being unreasonable.

I have been married 35 years and I have learned that if my husband wont change if it's something important to me, then I have to change, which then makes him do something different and I usually end up with what I wanted in the first place. So what I'm saying is if you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you've always got. Here are some things you could do differently, just suggestions of course......stop organising everything, organise something just for you. This may or may not make her think you could just be serious about this. Tell her beforehand you are about to do this. You deserve to be heard as well as her. She's not hearing you, so you have to take action, not just talk. Tell her you would love her to organise something for next weekend, if she comes back with the same old same old, organise something just for yourself, and tell her exactly what your going to do and why, then ACTION IT. This will be hard for you because in my opinion you have been to soft and she is taking advantage of that. It's human nature. I believe that if she organises something just now and again say (a dinner date) you won't mind doing the bulk of the organising, because you will have been heard and that will go a long way to taking your resentment away. Sounds like you have a great marriage that just needs a little tweek. Good luck

We have been married for 27 years and I organise all the social events and holidays. It works for us as I am the fussiest one, however DH does appreciate my efforts and would never dream of criticising anything. I hope that if I was unhappy about doing the organising then he would step up though.

Oliversmumsarmy DH requires notice to go on a clothes shopping expedition as he hates buying clothes, but for anything else he will happily drop everything. It sounds like your DH doesn't want to go out?

Just posting, because I totally get where you're coming from. I think my situation might be slightly different to yours, but it's very irritating nonetheless. My DH always has "stuff to do", so we can't go anywhere/visit people etc. But to me, there's always "stuff to do" and life's too short and the people we love won't be here for ever, so we need to visit them. For me, life needs to be lived and enjoyed NOW.

When the kids were younger, I always took them out to play parks, soft plays etc on my own, while he stayed at home to "get stuff done". With my family, I just visit them on my own (with the kids), my DH only comes if it's a big event (wedding/funeral).

I'd love to see HIS family more, and would love our kids to see them more. His Dad is lovely and getting very old now, so struggling to drive up to us, but every time I suggest that we go to visit him, I just get "I'm too busy, I've got stuff to do". To be honest, I don't mind doing all the organising (especially holidays), but on this one, I don't feel I can go over his head and organise things, when it's HIS Dad.

He even has a hobby and for years I organised everything for that as well, but when the DC came along, I just didn't have the time, so I stopped, and interestingly, he maybe does this hobby about once a year now. I'm convinced he's just not that bothered about it, or only is if someone else does all the leg work.

I enjoy going out for meals, but now I just go with the DC, because it's more enjoyable - if I force him to go, he blatantly sits there itching to get home to "get stuff done".

I have sometimes wondered if he's very stressed or mildly depressed or both, but when I suggest that to him, he just insists there's nothing wrong with him, so what can I do? I get the impression your wife is happy with the way things are? Whereas I'm not convinced my DH is actually very happy.

Sorry, hope I haven't hijacked your thread, but your post really struck a chord. I don't actually have any advice though! I'm watching closely.

There is usually a counterbalancing in a relationship.
. Im just wondering are you full on , planning organising , setting up stuff so to counterbalance this she does nothing. Could you try for a few weeks to plan nothing. Just potter around in a happy way. Say nothing and see will she rise up to fill the gap. I have 2 female friends who both in their marriages are full on plotting and planning..it would do your head in..both complain that their dhs plan nothing but l can see that they are overwhelmed with the constant new ideas.
Have you looked at love languages..google it. One is spending quality time together which sounds like you while your dw might be acts of kindness..does she do lots for you..have a read of it and see what you think.

Think of it another way - you are the organiser, therefore presumably you get to see all the films and plays that you'd like to? Go to the places you choose? Sounds pretty good if you look at it in a positive light. My DH moans like mad at the amount of "interesting" theatre he's dragged to and would love me to be a bit more interested in the TV schedules....

I don't think it sounds like you have a major problem, to be honest. Just sounds like your wife is happier with more home based, informal, less organised activities. It doesn't mean she doesn't want to be with you, it just means that she's as happy being with you in the sitting room as she is at some big event. So if she isn't actively obstructing your going places and seeing things, I'd just look at the positives of the situation, namely that your taste can happily dominate!

I totally get your point and hear your frustration. I'm just wondering though if your wife is 'in charge' of the 'mental load' for all other domestic things, such as the housework, cooking etc and so sees your 'role' as being for the more fun things...?

Just a thought

ChopsticksandChilliCrab Dp loves going out he just requires 2 weeks notice. He got really angry that ds and I didn't know whether we were going out until about 30 minutes before the film started . We said we might go but if we decided not to then we wouldn't. It was all too much for him to cope with. It would have had zero impact on him as he was watching TV in one room and we were watching something else in another.

Agree with NataliaOsipova you get to choose wherever you want to go and whatever you want to do.

Sounds to me like you're each playing to your own strengths. I can't see a problem really.

If it's been a big issue for you in the last ten years why would that be? Which one of you has changed?

Who arranges the shopping and cooking in your house?

It is not about people changing it is about being fed up of always having to come up with ideas for things to do and not wanting to spend every free moment pottering around. In the end people just get tired and bored with people who are so passive

It can be annoying to have to do all the organising all of the time.

You often get this this with a group of friends too. There's often one who takes the lead and sorts everything out.

You're not being unreasonable OP. I think lowering your expectations and just try and get her to do parts of the organising might work. I'd also say that whilst this is about how her inaction makes you feel, it's unlikely that her intention is to make you feel that way.

At least she's enthusiastic about going.

If all other aspects of your marriage are fine, then it may be a case of accepting her as she is.

It is not about people changing it is about being fed up of always having to come up with ideas for things to do and not wanting to spend every free moment pottering around. In the end people just get tired and bored with people who are so passive

This is a fair point, Olivers. Wondering if Pete (OP) would ever be keen on doing things in a group, or with another couple? We mostly do things just DH and I, but sometimes we go out with friends (my friend's DH and I are both interested in theatre; my friend and my DH aren't much) as a result of friend's DH and I discussing what's on and what we've seen/would like to. So that can give you the external dimension or new ideas that you're perhaps missing, as well as the chance to spend time with your wife.

I can't see the problem if she's happy to do what you plan. Just because you want to have social events planned and she doesn't why does that make her wrong? She's as entitled to want to not arrange things as you are entitled to want to arrange things. She's happy to go along with whatever you plan, so I can't see why you're making it a problem.

Wow! So glad I took the time to post this. Thanks so much for taking the time to respond.

@Pensionista - You're right that I just need a little back and then I'm happy to do the rest. I've tried much of what you suggest but it doesn't make much difference. I know it's not because she doesn't want to, it's just she very much lives in the now and rarely thinks about the future.

@junebirthdaygirl - I don't think I'm full on really. This is highlighted in the summer and at xmas which I feel are times of the year that focus on being sociable. I like to try and make the most of those periods but for most of the rest of the year I'm happy to be settled in a much more relaxed she does her thing, I do my thing, gardening , DIY etc mode.

@NataliaOsipova - You're so right that she's happy with more 'home based, informal, less organised activities' and I get that and actually appreciate it. The opposite could be a partner who just wants to be out with their friends all the time and not involving me. I guess I'm just trying to find a balance that works for me and that would involve us doing what we want to do rather than us doing what I want to do.

@CashewNut11 - It's fair to say that we are somewhat traditional and my role is very much bread winner / DIY / gardening etc and hers is the home and all it's needs. I've tried to become more involved in cooking over that last year but it tends to be more of an event than one of those 'jobs that has to be done'. As I mentioned, I don't think that she sees it as my role, more that she just doesn't think about it but I will be mindful of your comment.

@Oliversmumsarmy - I can see how that may be good for some but I just want a balance between what I want, she wants and we both want together.

@golfin - I guess the change is that the focus in our life has shifted from our children to us.

@AlternativeTentacle - My wife but I'm not sure of your point? Thanks for commenting though.

@Oliversmumsarmy - "it is not about people changing it is about being fed up of always having to come up with ideas for things to do and not wanting to spend every free moment pottering around. In the end people just get tired and bored with people who are so passive" - There's certainly an element of this but mostly, I think I just need confirmation that she needs and wants to have a fulfilling relationship with me.

@SandyY2K - Understood. Thanks

@NataliaOsipova - It's fair to say that both of us are more comfortable in smaller groups or on our own. You are right though that it does make you think further afield. Ultimately, it comes back to me to make arrangements however.

@forumdonkey - I don't think I said she was wrong and tried to make clear I'm happy to accept this could be more about me. Maybe we are different in that I want a relationship with a 'partner' and not a 'follower'. Thank for sharing your perspective though.

@AlternativeTentacle - My wife but I'm not sure of your point? Thanks for commenting though.

My point is that she does instigate loads of stuff. Perhaps this is the only way she can get you to pull any of your weight?

Not rocket science is it?

@AlternativeTentacle - I'm sorry you feel the need to be so hostile but thanks for your explanation. Have a good day.