Money lies

[operaha]

Be gentle.

Husband lied about a huge amount of money before we got married. I helped him sort it out, he's back on track. It was massive and I don't think I've ever recovered from it.

Just found out he has a 6.5k debt on credit card.

I'm so scared of debt I manage money carefully. I earn a reasonable amount and own my house so live a fairly comfortable life but I'm not well off to any extent, just watch the pennies and can afford nice things.

Husband is self employed and business going well though again not a massive earner.

I knew there was a credit card but thought it was around 2k.
This has really changed things as I think the amount is significant enough to stress over and also, he fucking bastarding lied again.

Im in shock and numb and not quite with it.
If I leave him I'll make him and his dc homeless.

I always read the "but he's a great bloke in all other ways" shit on here and he is. Money is his problem in that he fucking lies about it, but my god what he does for me and my kids and the fun we have together is fantastic.

However I'm slowly facing up to the fact I don't think I'll ever trust him and that just means I'm prolonging things... I can't look at him. I'm so mad, I'm so offended, I'm upset but does the fact I knew there was a bit on that credit card make it less awful?
I'll also add that long before we married he hid a relatively small amount on credit card from me and I went fucking crazy. This is so much worse.

We've got holidays booked and I literally don't think he'd cope without me.

Fucks sake.

Sorry about the swearing.

What's he spending the money on op? Is he spending on frivolities, or the business, or the house?

Oh sorry, no I don't think he's spending it on frivolities (loving that word) it's the business, recovering from the fucking horrendous debt before and I suspect when our mates say "let's pull a last minute trip to Paris" and we go "hell yeah" he's just paying for it like that whereas I only say yes when I can afford it.

It might seem odd that our finances are separate but that's my decision as been married before etc etc

I realise reading that back random trips abroad are frivolities but I didn't know they were financed by a CC.

We're going to a friend's party tonight. My friends. I don't want him there, I don't want him near me.

Oh OP I'm sorry to hear this. I don't trust my DH either. He never consulted me on some investments he made that were in the hundreds of thousands (yes hundreds of thousands!) and I don't think these investments will come good. Our house gone, our safety net gone, I'm pregnant and no idea how I'm going to provide for this baby.

We're now tens of thousands in debt and I don't know what to do. I'll never trust a word he says ever again, that's for sure.

Maybe open 1 joint account where all money comes in and out from that one account so you can see where the money is going and keep tabs on each other?

If there is no trust there is ultimately no relationship. What sort of an example is he to your children?. And no he is not a great bloke, not even close if he has done this to his children as well.

He has I think lied to you consistently about his financial irresponsibility throughout your relationship. What you have now found as well is probably not the full extent of his debts either.

You have propped up this financially irresponsible person at great cost to date both emotional and financial to yourself. It was never your responsibility either to help him sort out his debt prior to you marrying him. But you made yourself responsible; why?.

You could manage without him.

And he would cope without you just fine; he would simply find someone else to look after him and he would lie to her too.

What do you get out of this relationship now?

Oh God nc that sounds horrendous.

We have no children together but have recently had his two move in because their mother cant look after them. At least she has a house though. God this is a mess and hindsight is a wonderful thing. I definitely shouldn't have married him. I'm a fucking idiot.

I'll also add that long before we married he hid a relatively small amount on credit card from me and I went fucking crazy

Maybe your bad reaction and clearly your very different attitudes to money/debt is why he isn't open with you. Have you considered that you have a problem in your attitude to money? Your DH is earning and you're not in financial difficulty. Personally I don't think £6.5k versus £2k is a huge deal, certainly not enough to justify your reaction of "I don't want him near me" and to have even mentioning leaving him and making him and his DC homeless. Massive over-reaction from you OP.

Yes I could manage without him.

No he wouldn't just find another woman to help him.

I helped him because I could and I believe he is a good man, he certainly has issues but people can actually have flaws without being inherently bad.
Im not defending him, I'm heartbroken but a little perspective please, I love him, he IS a fantastic man, we have a wonderful life.

Money is a huge factor to me and now I have to work out what I want moving forward, not be berated for my past in supporting the man I love.

And there are huge implications in leaving him, catastrophic in terms of his children. It's not something I'm going to jump in to

Hundred - yes to everything you said!! I totally think I have a very different perspective on money due to my past. I'm trying to balance my feelings hence posting here but I don't want people to be mean to me!
I don't want him near me today, just while I'm sorting my head out.

If it's predominantly the business, thats worrying. He should not be mixing the two up, personal spends and business spends and keep his finances separate. Basically he earns less than he is claiming because he needs to take the business debt away from what he takes out of it, if that makes sense? If he says he earns 30k a year, he doesn't, he earns 23.5, because he needs to pay his debts before he takes a wage.

also... the amount isn't really the issue, him lying again is yknow, a bit shit

You need to both sit down and look at his business. How much he brings in versus how much he spends. Then account for tax and any investment needed. Anything left is what he earns. This then needs to be budgeted for monthly for the household and then what's left for his personal spends. On a monthly basis make sure the business is not declining and if so then adjust down accordingly.

I'm sorry but it looks to me like he struggles with th financial side of being self employed.

Whilst I can understand your upset at this being kept from you, and why it would lead you to question trust in your DH, objectively I'm not sure its as black and white. Reality is that men (and some women) use money as a bit of a measure of 'success' and might not tell their partner when they're not doing so well out of feeling this would make them inferior, or letting the household down. Your DH may see being able to join your friends on the trips away etc as something he should be able to facilitate for you both... and there is of course the matter of the male ego if he was to say he couldn't afford to go. He may see the cc being a short term solution and have a plan in place to clear the balance. Of course I don't know the full context with his previous debt but it doesn't seem that his spending is completely out of control or that he is spending on anything untoward? Are you able to see if he's being keeping up repayments and if the sum has been gradually increasing etc?

Thank you bluntness, your name is apt and you speak perfect sense.
Yes he does and yes I can do all that.

What I'm struggling with I suppose is the respecting someone who is prepared to lie to me part of it all...

I agree with hundred

My husband goes "fucking crazy" too so I just don't tell him anything.

Chloe, quite. I think he struggles with me being more successful professionally though he's very supportive of my career and likelihood is that I will rise through the ranks and earn significantly more than him in a couple more years. When we met I earned a pittance but have really increased my income since then whereas whilst his business ticks over and isn't at any risk of failure, he's never going to earn more from it.

It sounds so stupid written down but he worships me, he's quite insecure but he's Mr cool to everyone that knows him. No one would suspect what lies beneath so to speak.

I'm not sure it's malicious lying though, maybe more embarrassment and not wishing to admit it to even himself?

He lives beyond his means, ihe wants a lifestyle he does not earn enough to support. So he takes from th business and borrows to allow him to live as he pleases.

If you want to help him, then you know how to, I'm just not sure he will thank you for it after the short term as it will mean his lifestyle has to change. He will have much less to spend on a day to day basis.

In context, "fucking crazy" despite us having lengthy discussions about moving in together and me explaining the lengths I'd gone to you afford my house and how we needed to be honest about money so we could start this new life together and asking him outright whether there were any outstanding debts he needed to pay off, he looked me in the eye and told me no. I then by accident (fell out of his laptop bag) discovered a credit card bill. I was a little upset at this and made it clear he'd broken my trust and that he didn't need to hide things.

He then did on a massive massive scale, well already was and didn't use the credit card situation to reach out to me.

Maybe fucking crazy wasn't the right phrase, I expressed my disappointment.

Could it be he is embarrassed about how much his busInes brings in? If this is business debt predominantly he's exaggerating his profit. The reality is it makes much less. Could he feel that he needs to compete in some way?

And yeah there's not a malicious bone in his body. Psychologically though I think there's something more, I mean what is going on in his head

You sound very controlling when it comes to money (the implication is that it's your way or the highway) and maybe you're letting the past rule the present. Your DH doesn't sound like one of the irresponsible wasters that come up on some MN threads. It just sounds like you have a different attitude to money and you are dictating that he needs to have the same attitude as you or he's in the wrong. If you give him grief (or go "fucking crazy") when he doesn't do things your way, you're making it very hard for him to be open and honest with you. Maybe try less judging and more open supportive conversation instead!

I totally take that on board. We have completely separate finances and just pay the bills together.

Perhaps I am controlling but I don't question him in any sense of what he does with his money, I just ask to not be lied to.
Im unsure where I've gone wrong in this, and I'm really regretting my choice of words. I suppose fucking crazy referred to how I felt, we have a very good relationship and are able to discuss problems without descending into mud slinging. The example in question I was really upset that only days before we'd sat down to discuss any potential issues and I'd specifically asked about debt to which he said he had none. Then came the CC, then came the business huge lie, then came a further lie about that, now this.

I'm prepared to alter my thinking but I'm also frightened of debt, I was raised differently than to think CCs etc are the way

You don't sound controlling at all. You sound careful and sensible. His lying impacts you.

What is his take on it? Does he accept that it was wrong to lie to you?

He's at work, I only found out this morning so everything I say is very reactionary and instinctive, im letting my head clear.

He admits he deliberately hid it from me because he thought he could handle it.

I honestly don't know if I'm controlling or not, I have no say over his finances other than his contribution to the running of the house!

Please don't open a joint account. Even if you manage that account carefully his (probably) shit credit rating will pollute yours and you'd struggle to get any form of personal credit in the future.

I've known three people over the years who have been financially duped by people they love. All of the spenders were generous to a fault, obsessed with 'treats' (from perfume to holidays to cars) and not willing to live within their means even though they had enough money for bills, mortgage and all things reasonable. They love bombed their partner with treats all the time. In two cases it started with a couple of grand over spent, forgiveness then more secrecy and over spending. In the third case it was a secret gambling habit.

In case 1 they divorced. The non-spender was unable to get a mortgage so had to rent a house for 10 years as she had to pay off 50% of his huge debts (joint cards, joint accounts, she let him deal with all financial matters so had no clue as to the debts).

In case 2 bankruptcy had to be declared. They're still married but she gives him pocket money and handles all finances. He gets his treats but she controls it all. I'd find that so stressful personally.

In case 3 the wedding had to be cancelled two days before the date as there was no money to pay the final amount due to the venue. It was horrendous. She stayed for six more months to untangle the lies and bail him out. Thank god she left him as he was the gambler. There was no debt but every penny she put into the joint account was wasted. She ended up paying all bills, paying for Caribbean holiday that he was treating her to etc. All on the basis that he'd pay her back when the bank had sorted out an admin problem and unblocked his account. There was no admin problem. Just an empty bank account. And an unworn wedding dress. You couldn't make it up.

If you do stay with him you'll need a firm grip on every single financial matter (including business) and you'll need to jump on any spending that gets your antennae twitching just in case he's taken out a secret loan or credit card. He'll have to consent to that degree of control too and realise that it's forever not just for a couple of months while he's a good boy.

Some people can live with debt some people can't. Some people have to live with debt to get by. I couldn't live with someone who was relaxed about debt but that's just me.