DS going to live with ExP

[Namechangeynamechange]

I have no idea if this is the right place to post or not but it felt appropriate. Apologies if not.

DS1 is my only son with my ex. I have 3 younger DC with DH, who I have been with since DS1 was 1.
DS1 has always been incredibly difficult, since he was about 2. He was diagnosed with ASD (very high functioning) at age 5.
His behaviour has continued to escalate over the years and last year, we decided, as a family, that he might be happier if he lived with his dad. He has always had regular contact with ExP and we have a very amicable relationship. In the end DS begged us not to make him go there and of course we let him stay with us, I'd never force him to be unhappy. We said he'd move to dads for secondary school, but finish out primary here. He wanted to go up then, he likes the look of the secondary near his dad (though he also loves the taster things he's been to at the one here) He's now end of year 5, so only one year left. He promised he'd stop the violent, nasty behaviour to us and his siblings and for a few months all was fine.

Despite this, this year his behaviour has become out of control. He breaks doors, carpets, furniture etc in rage. He throws stuff around, hits and pushes his younger siblings, screams, shouts and swears at us. He follows people around making irritating, repetitive noises to wind them up. He rages at everyone and refuses to do as we ask (can you put your rubbish in the bin, can you pick stuff up off your bedroom floor, can you get your shoes on please) Basic stuff, he's not Cinderella. He steals - a lot. Toys, food (people's personal special food, tge for a cupboards full he can have but he chooses to take the chocolate coins from a siblings party bag). His triggers are always either: being asked to do something he doesn't want to, or being told he can't have/do what he wants. This is just parenting isn't it? No you can't go out in the pouring rain. No you can't walk to school today, you won't get there in time. Ask earlier tomorrow.

This culminated in an incident at school in which he pushed his younger brother over, who sustained a fair few cuts and bruises. This led to consequences at school and at home (no iPad here, a report card for a week at school). He kicked off, big time, and at one point tried to grab a knife. His father said that enough was enough and he'd take him to live with him, has applied for a new school etc. He lives to far away for shared care and has refused to move back. We still live in our original home area.

DS is distraught. He desperately doesn't want to leave school, he is happy and thriving there and I'm loathe to do it, but he patently isn't happy here either. He's convinced we treat him differently to his siblings, and whilst he's correct that he's told off more often, that's because he behaves this way more often. His siblings get exactly the same parenting if/when they are badly behaved too.

So now I'm stuck in this situation where I feel like I can't help him anymore. We've tried children's services, CAMHS, school (who are great but can't offer much), GP and so on. Nobody wants to help him. He has serious anger management issues. I don't want to lose my son but I feel like I have no choice. I want him, and my other kids, to be happy and feel safe. My DS2 is close in age and really very negatively affected by all this, it's very upsetting. Why has nobody helped us? Why am I being forced into 'sending' my first born away from me? I utterly adore him but his behaviour is destroying the rest of us in our home and family. My husband is at breakdown point as he gets the brunt of it, by virtue of not being biologically his father. No other reason. We've tried everything we can - even my DM had him for a few days and tried to get through to him, he came back and kicked off the day he came home

I just want him to be happy, and everyone else too. He knows I want him here, he knows I love him. I've explained, and he does understand, that it's not him that makes me feel so stressed, it's his behaviour, but he just can't not behave this way. Typically, he doesn't do it for his dad, but as he's only there every other weekend I suspect it's a bit 'Disney dad' and he will if/when he's there more permanently.

How do I fix this? How do I help all my babies?

It's a tough one isn't it? I am a mum to 2 dd's with ASD and I know how tough it can be, although my dd2 is not violent she is distructive and she pinches food (I have to lock the kitchen).

Could you just send your ds to his dads for the summer holidays and see how things go? Decide nearer the end of the holidays what to do regarding long term plans? I do agree that moving him for the last year of school maybe stressful for him and could make things worse. I would be tempted to ride it out another year until high school but send him to his dads for the holidays so you get a break and your ds gets some idea of what it would be like to live with his dad (to prepare him for what may happen next year)?

.A friend had a similar issue with her daughter and one of the suggested diagnosis was PDA pathological avoidance disorder. There's a useful section of the autism society website about it. I'm not trting to diagnose over the internet but a lot of what you said reminded me of her situation. Nothing to add beyond that and look after yourself OP.

To be honest I'd send him to his father, his behaviour is unacceptable and unfair on the rest of the family. He has been warned but has chosen to ignore the warning, do not allow him to destroy the rest of your family.

This is going to sound harsh but he's got to go live with his father. You said he's already tried to grab a knife, you cannot risk that he may escalate and hurt one of your other DC. You've done everything you could OP and you must act in the best interest of everyone else.

I'm going through very similar stuff with my DD. I believe she has developed MDD with psychotic features due to years of her underlying ASD being ignored and punished in school. She is also just finished in y5.

I'm stuck in a cycle of everyone basically kicking the ball to each other too. CAMHS saying it is not mental health but ASD and that it is a social care issue, social care saying it is not ASD but mental health and is a CAMHS issue, so she doesn't have any support except from the wellbeing service I got school to pay for.

A few things I would advise, you may already have done them though;

1. Apply for DLA to help with the costs of destruction. You can also apply for one off things of up to £500 from the family fund.

1. Request both a disability needs assessment from social care for your child and a carer's assessment for you. Carer's assessment can result in direct payments for help at home.

1. Get onto a child in need plan so there are regular meetings and so you actually get a social worker.

1. Get school to apply for an EHCP so there is a way of properly managing education issues.

1. Look up nice guidelines re ASD and mental health issues for children.

1. Consider getting a solicitor and suing them if no support happens.

Contrary to many on this thread I think going to his dad's could make things much worse for him. He will struggle with the change. If he is high functioning that means he will be intelligent but emotionally and socially underdeveloped and from what you have said he simply won't have the capacity to understand it as anything other than an abandonment and a trauma.

I think what he needs is CAMHS and adjustments to schooling and what you and the others need is him to go for respite through social care or direct payments.

1. Apply for DLA to help with the costs of destruction. You can also apply for one off things of up to £500 from the family fund.

DS receives DLA at MRC and LRM. I also claim Carer's Allowance and we do receive FF grants when needed.

1. Request both a disability needs assessment from social care for your child and a carer's assessment for you. Carer's assessment can result in direct payments for help at home.

*We have, they refused to carry one out as our LA 'don't do carers assessments for parent carers.' They 'assessed' over the phone and he met no thresholds. Basically they won't help until he does seriously hurt a sibling.

1. Get onto a child in need plan so there are regular meetings and so you actually get a social worker.

Did that. Discharged because we don't beat him/them. Refused to do anything else.

1. Get school to apply for an EHCP so there is a way of properly managing education issues.

They won't, he doesn't have education issues, he thrives and does very well at school academically and behaviourally.

1. Look up nice guidelines re ASD and mental health issues for children.

Will do

I think what concerns me most about DS' behaviour is that he chooses to do it. If somebody else walks in the house he stops like the flick of a switch. It's not meltdowns, it's not the result of him not coping, it is behaviour he chooses to display when he doesn't get his own way.

When he chooses not to behave like that he's the most loving, kind, funny and amazing little boy.

Offred I feel the same. But I feel so trapped

The responses to the thread are literally my mind's conflict too. On a bad day I'm very much 'no, he needs to go with his dad, I have to protect the others.' On a good day I'm in pieces, desperate to hold him close and never let go.

Things that I have been focusing on with DD are avoiding directly challenging her as she doesn't take anything useful from it (she isn't capable of it), trying to teach her to develop coping strategies and more positive ways of actually dealing with her sensory and social overloads.

She will run away, break stuff, attack people, threaten with knives etc.

You need to look at what are his triggers and accommodate them as much as you can by directing them to more positive things. Also give him outlets that are approved by you rather than expect him to just not do things or be able to learn from consequences.

For example if DD is going to be in a triggering situation I discuss with her what she can do - it is usually a secret sign we have (pull my little finger) to tell me she has had enough, or it can be going home on her own (if appropriate), or going to a quieter place, or if she needs to do something physical she can stab old cardboard boxes with a butter knife, bounce on the trampoline or on an exercise ball.

To avoid the stress of it being a demand and to teach her that she can trust me to help her when she gets overloaded we have agreed a menu of outlets for her that we both approve of and that she can choose which she does when it happens and I will allow it if it is one of the things we have agreed.

This doesn't actually totally prevent any really worrying stuff but it massively helps day to day.

She has other issues as I have mentioned - dissociation (feels the world is not real), she hears voices, is very paranoid (feels ppl are stalking her and that people will attack her) etc

It's lawyer time then I think.

This is disability discrimination.

I have my nephew with HF ASD staying with me at present while his parents are on a much needed holiday. We've done this since he's really
little and it's become part of his life/routine. I say this because the importance of respite shouldn't be underestimated. Getting him off to stay with his dad regularly is important for all of you.

But it sounds like the bigger picture here is more about the need for training in parenting with a child with ASD, and espececially the importance of building trust. Children with ASD do need to be parented differently to NT children. I found the course I did absolutely invaluable. I learned about how punishing him for a meltdown was absolutely the opposite of what would help, and that he needed instead to have help in recognising triggers and averting meltdowns before they got to that stage. ("Would I punish an epileptic child for having a seizure?" is now the question I ask myself when DN does something I would tell another costing child off for, in a meltdown.)
I'm far from an expert but some of the behaviours you're describing sounds like your son isn't intending to be naughty. Repetitive noises are often an example of stimming. Wanting to walk in the rain can be because it is a sensory pleasure - or because the car has become sensorially distressing.

Also, I wouldn't underestimate the significance of him being settled in school. Making a change that will result in a school move when that's an area of success that's going well sounds potentially highly counter productive.

Complain to the LA and the school governors if you can. I have simply gone right to the solicitors because it is so bad.

Social care didn't do any of that stuff for us until I said 'if you don't I am going to sue you' - we got an amazing social worker the next day though no-one is listening to her either!

But his 'trigger' is me parenting him, he's said to me himself that he prefers dads as 'he doesn't tell me what to do or tell me off if I don't do it.' I can't avoid parenting and just be permissive, it won't do him or anyone else any good.

The noises categorically are NOT stimming. He follows you around making the noise to try and get a reaction. I know stimming, DC3 is ASD too and stims, DS does flap etc sometimes, this is different. It is deliberate, it is designed to irritate and inflame people.

The walking to school is because he wants to walk with friends - which is absolutely fine - but he always asks too late. He knows what time to ask, he's not silly. I swear sometimes he does it to trigger himself.

I think what concerns me most about DS' behaviour is that he chooses to do it. If somebody else walks in the house he stops like the flick of a switch. It's not meltdowns, it's not the result of him not coping, it is behaviour he chooses to display when he doesn't get his own way.

I totally understand that feeling but it is not that he is choosing to do it exactly, more like that he is able to keep a lid on it with people and in environments that he doesn't feel are safe for him to be himself. The more time he spends keeping a lid on it the worse he will be with you IME. He needs to get out of a cycle of only feeling able to keep a lid on things and actually level out with being able to express frustrations during times of stress and not have this maladaptive thing of 'behaving how ppl expect me to' and 'expressing all my pent up frustration'.

I see I xposted about meltdowns and you think his bad behaviour is often a choice instead. How do you define a meltdown? When you talk to him afterwards, how does he explain what's happened?
What I see with DN often looks like he is choosing a reaction when it's actually a result of a trigger - whether social or sensorial or just a lack of capacity to cope with being around other people and their demands after a long day of coping.
I'm not trying to correct you here - you know him best. But I think you sound understandably stressed and upset, and sometimes that clouds our ability to assess situations accurately.

Has he had any sessions with a psychologist and OT? Can you afford him to see someone privately?

Just to be clear as well - he is never punished for meltdowns, I talk it through with him.

DD says she hates me and everything that is wrong is down to my terrible parenting - this is simply because she doesn't want to accept she is struggling with normal things.

As a side I totally get your 'they will only care if he seriously hurts someone' thing. Many times I have been sobbing down the phone to EDT saying exactly that.

Unfortunately, you just need to keep getting on social care's radar through calling EDT, the police/an ambulance every time this happens.

Name change I'm going through exact same thing. I could have written your post. Dd rules our house completely. I'm at the end of my rope. Shs behaves at her fathers and seems happier there yet doesn't want to go. I feel it would be better for her all I want is for her to be happy.

He saw psychologists and OT soon after diagnosis, who made excellent recommendations to school which helped. He moved from infant to junior and junior have been amazing.

I'm terrified of phoning police etc. I can't lose them, any of them.

I haven't lost any of mine. I also have four. Calling the police/NSPCC/ambulance/EDT has simply resulted in social care getting a lot of paperwork and having to act on it.

It is traumatic for my DD and other kids as often the police come and shout at her but it is the only way to get social care to understand IME.

Also if he is a danger to others/himself the police can s136 him and he will have to be assessed by a psychiatrist from CAMHS then.

He's convinced we treat him differently to his siblings,

you treat him TOTALLY differently to his siblings, you have told him you don't want him in his own family, and he is on borrowed time.

How did you expect him to react?

How would you react if DH had said that to you "Well, we don't want you here long term with us, but we will put up with you for another three years as a favour, but then that's it, your are out"

completely normal reaction in my eyes, nothing to do with ASD at all