DS going to live with ExP

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I have no idea if this is the right place to post or not but it felt appropriate. Apologies if not.

DS1 is my only son with my ex. I have 3 younger DC with DH, who I have been with since DS1 was 1.
DS1 has always been incredibly difficult, since he was about 2. He was diagnosed with ASD (very high functioning) at age 5.
His behaviour has continued to escalate over the years and last year, we decided, as a family, that he might be happier if he lived with his dad. He has always had regular contact with ExP and we have a very amicable relationship. In the end DS begged us not to make him go there and of course we let him stay with us, I'd never force him to be unhappy. We said he'd move to dads for secondary school, but finish out primary here. He wanted to go up then, he likes the look of the secondary near his dad (though he also loves the taster things he's been to at the one here) He's now end of year 5, so only one year left. He promised he'd stop the violent, nasty behaviour to us and his siblings and for a few months all was fine.

Despite this, this year his behaviour has become out of control. He breaks doors, carpets, furniture etc in rage. He throws stuff around, hits and pushes his younger siblings, screams, shouts and swears at us. He follows people around making irritating, repetitive noises to wind them up. He rages at everyone and refuses to do as we ask (can you put your rubbish in the bin, can you pick stuff up off your bedroom floor, can you get your shoes on please) Basic stuff, he's not Cinderella. He steals - a lot. Toys, food (people's personal special food, tge for a cupboards full he can have but he chooses to take the chocolate coins from a siblings party bag). His triggers are always either: being asked to do something he doesn't want to, or being told he can't have/do what he wants. This is just parenting isn't it? No you can't go out in the pouring rain. No you can't walk to school today, you won't get there in time. Ask earlier tomorrow.

This culminated in an incident at school in which he pushed his younger brother over, who sustained a fair few cuts and bruises. This led to consequences at school and at home (no iPad here, a report card for a week at school). He kicked off, big time, and at one point tried to grab a knife. His father said that enough was enough and he'd take him to live with him, has applied for a new school etc. He lives to far away for shared care and has refused to move back. We still live in our original home area.

DS is distraught. He desperately doesn't want to leave school, he is happy and thriving there and I'm loathe to do it, but he patently isn't happy here either. He's convinced we treat him differently to his siblings, and whilst he's correct that he's told off more often, that's because he behaves this way more often. His siblings get exactly the same parenting if/when they are badly behaved too.

So now I'm stuck in this situation where I feel like I can't help him anymore. We've tried children's services, CAMHS, school (who are great but can't offer much), GP and so on. Nobody wants to help him. He has serious anger management issues. I don't want to lose my son but I feel like I have no choice. I want him, and my other kids, to be happy and feel safe. My DS2 is close in age and really very negatively affected by all this, it's very upsetting. Why has nobody helped us? Why am I being forced into 'sending' my first born away from me? I utterly adore him but his behaviour is destroying the rest of us in our home and family. My husband is at breakdown point as he gets the brunt of it, by virtue of not being biologically his father. No other reason. We've tried everything we can - even my DM had him for a few days and tried to get through to him, he came back and kicked off the day he came home

I just want him to be happy, and everyone else too. He knows I want him here, he knows I love him. I've explained, and he does understand, that it's not him that makes me feel so stressed, it's his behaviour, but he just can't not behave this way. Typically, he doesn't do it for his dad, but as he's only there every other weekend I suspect it's a bit 'Disney dad' and he will if/when he's there more permanently.

How do I fix this? How do I help all my babies?

I don't think I can do it. I can't make him go, but we can't keep living like this either. What if his Dad just takes him? I'm such a mess.

Send him to his dad's for a month in the summer. See how it goes. Is he happier? Does your relationship with him improve? You won't know if you don't try it.

Squashed he always does 50/50 in school holidays, but it's not 'real' life in the holidays, there's no school routine. No rush to get up the morning, no homework (which I've given up fighting over anyway tbh), no after school club runs etc etc. So yes, we all like it, but it's not like life would really be.

DH, ExP and DM all think we should give it this year and see how he is after a year. I can't bear the thought of him not being in his bed when I go past his room to get to mine at night. I can't bear the thought of not hearing about his day every afternoon after school.

At the same time, I really want that happy, 'fun' time that his dad gets on his weekends. We haven't had it for so long.

I think its definitely worth considering him living with his dad, and you maintaining regular access/contact, but i think it might be less stressful for him to have one on one. My children all have ASD and if ever I have a night or a day with one of them one on one, they respond so well. I know his dad sounds a bit crap, but he will have to step up with the parenting if hes living there rather than just the odd day here and there

He's not doing well at school behaviourally if he pushes over his brother, though, is he? So maybe revisit EHCP?

If it's mainly you that he pushes against, could you afford (from DLA/carer's allowance) a mother's help for the mornings and some respite care for your DS so you can concentrate on the siblings?

If he is going to his dad's for part of the summer, then can you suggest he sets up a routine so he can see how your DS is with getting to holiday club etc. on time?

I don't think ExP is crap, per se, just that the circumstances in which he has him don't call for any more active parenting than he does now. When it's 48 hours, why argue with him? He also has a lot more patience as he isn't battling constantly. So by default he's more permissive.

DS1 having the 1:1 would be a huge advantage to him. If I'd known I probably wouldn't have had 3 more, but they were all born before or soon after his diagnosis and before these difficulties escalated.

He does get solo time with me and/or DH. We make sure they all do.

I'm wondering what you would do if you didn't have a dad you could just send him off to live with?

Living with any kind of family member who has ASD is tough and for sure there aren't enough services there to help everybody. The system is far from perfect but if every door is slammed in your face, as a parent you knock harder.

I'm not seeing anywhere what you are doing to try to understand and help with his issues. You are looking at it as parenting but maybe not as ASD parenting and those are two totally different things.

When you say he is choosing this behaviour, you are making an NT logical leap because you don't see him behaving that way for others. That is not only common in ASD children, it is very common for all children. I've not met a parent yet who doesn't bemoan the fact their children are far better behaved for other adults. The difference with ASD is that their "safe space" behaviour is affected by their condition. My child gets lippy, belligerent, argumentative and throws tantrums. She is NT and that is fairly common for NT girls of her age. Your child becomes more physical, stimming, with meltdowns - very common in children with ASD. To suggest he is choosing to do any of it, shows a lack of understanding of his condition. Of course, he can learn how to control that and to deal with it, but he needs help to do that and as a parent, you're it. You're the one who has to help him do that. Have you been given any information at all on how to parent an ASD child? There is masses of information and support online. Perhaps reaching out there will help.

drspouse School consider him to be doing extremely well, and his reports and teachers agree. Any bad behaviour at school is almost always related to him seeking out DS2 to wind up. 🙄 School have confirmed that it's DS1 who seeks and DS2 avoids. I think it's boredom tbh!

We've done so many ASD parenting courses. I've read the Explosive Child. I've put every single suggested strategy in place. Nothing works. Nothing except allowing him to do whatever he wants when he wants has any result. I'm sorry but ASD or not I'm not prepared to let him put himself at risk of danger so he won't kick off.

I've raised the 'what if he didn't have a dad' question and nobody has an answer beyond 'but he does so why not try it.'

Not sure it's fair to say I haven't tried to get help for him. I have barged the metaphorical doors down and been shoved out. We've been through SS multiple times and discharged. CAMHS have refused MULTIPLE referrals. School say he won't meet EHCP thresholds. What more can I do? How is fighting all that not helping?

It's tough but I think you should send him to his dads.
I had a troubled teen.
She went to live with her dad in another country.
She was worse with him and things escalated to a point where I actually had to go and 'rescue' her.
She came back a different child.
Still not great to start with but she had learned a lot.
She had blamed me for everything but being with her Dad made her realise it wasn't me at all.
That year and a few months turned her around it really did.
I hated seeing her go but it was her choice.
She knew she needed to get away from the crowd she was involved with.
Could be the best thing to happen to him.
You just don't know until you try though.

You've tried everything so far so maybe it IS time for your ex to take over the school year and you have the weekends/holidays and see what kind of outcome this will have.

It sounds like an awful choice to have to make but when you are burnt out with dealing with him, what's left for your other children, your DH and you? I think you all could be doing with this in order to reassess everything and find a better balance for all your children.

Perhaps giving it one year, until he ends primary school, will help break the cycle in which you have found yourself?

By having him visit you every fortnight instead of his dad's, you get a chance to be the Disney family, and he can learn to relate to you in an improved way.

Worth a shot I would think.

I'm struggling to understand, if you've done all that, you think he is choosing his behaviour. At 10 years old. With ASD. You're crediting him with an emotional intelligence he very likely lacks the capability for.

"I've tried everything" is the cry of frustrated parents everywhere. Most often, if we really have, we find something which works.

My "what if" question was for you, not for everyone you've asked. What would YOU do next if dads wasn't an option?

Most often, if we really have, we find something which works
Indeed - and as nothing else has, then it might be worth a try to let him spend some time with his dad.

i sense youre struggling with feeling guilty about it, but youve got nothing to feel guilty for. You wouldnt be sending him to a prison camp or military school. Youre only considering this to try and help him. Its clear that you have his and all your childrens best interests at heart, and none of this would be irreversible. You wouldnt be giving up on him, youd be just trying another tack with helping him x

I felt dreadful about making the move to his gran's, until a friend pointed out that lots of children go to boarding school at that age for a better education. I wasn't sending DS to some strange place - he'd be moving in with his gran, who loves him and cares for him, to access a school which would meet his needs better and give him 1-1 support with homework etc during the week.
I gave DS the choice, and he said he wanted to give it a go, but I made it clear this is his home and he's always welcome here.

You are me many years ago. No one wanted to help. Legal action was long, around 3 years. It was when things escalated did ss and others do anything.
As you ds does he singled out one of his younger siblings and myself. He went to a different school to his siblings on the recommendation of the headteacher. At least they had some respite for him. The only way I could work was to run my own business as I never knew when the school would call. I used to dread the phone ringing.
This may shock people but here goes. At 10 I couldn't take anymore. This was the life we knew nothing more. Aggression and violence. Not only to us but also himself. When he started we always walked away and ignored as hard as it was. He would follow and get bored and calm himself down. Engaging with him made him worse. Their was no trigger btw. Say hello could set him off. The wrong thing for dinner.
One day he started I was alone with him and I walked away. He followed and at this point for my safety I locked myself in a room. Imagine that a parent having to do this. But he was determined to get me and kicked in the door. Massive hole. In his hand he had a bat that he had broke and wanted to stab me. He couldn't get to knives as they where locked away. His attacked resulted in the police being called by myself and neighbours.
Four big burly officers to remove a 10 year old. Even they were shocked.

He was taken to a relatives and because of all this suddenly ss where involved. Because of this we had cin conferences and cahms became involved. Even bypassed the 2 years + waiting lists they mentioned initially.,

He was reassessed and rediagosed with various things including still autism. With this more appropriate help was put into place. Including a proper school statement with 1-2-1 and at times home tutor.

It wasn't easy. IT broke me to do that, get him removed from the family home. But I can honestly say it was for the best. We all got the help needed, even the younger siblings had access to therapy to deal with their own stuff as a result of everything. We all have a better relationship with him and he with us.

Someone Asked further up what would happen if there was no one suitable to take in the child. Quite simply they would go into the care system of either a home or foster care. Just remember the appropriate adult doesn't have to be the child's parent.

Original I honestly have no idea. Have a nervous breakdown? End up leaving my family to take him away somewhere? I'm at my wits end.

In the nicest possible way, I know my DS better than you, and I know his emotional intelligence. People underestimate him, I don't.

We've tried ignoring and walking away - it makes him much worse. He absolutely despises it if we don't give the behaviour a reaction. He wants the attention and will do whatever he has to to get it. If we ignore him that's when he following, noises and taunting us starts. If that doesn't work he breaks things and/or attacks his siblings so that eventually we're forced to intervene.

Did you see my suggestion about a mother's help and respite?

What happens when you praise/reward tiny positive steps e.g. NOT making annoying noises, sitting quietly while watching something?

Or maybe, just maybe, you over estimate him.

We fall in to that trap frequently. We know our girl well too, but sometimes we forget there are things going on in her head we just don't understand. It is those times, when we give her too much credit for keeping her emotions in check, that things go tits up.

He's my son. I know what he is and isn't capable of. His powers of manipulation are astounding, but he can't understand that people online might be lying about who they say they are (for example). I know where his strengths and weaknesses are.

We can't afford it dr even with DLA/CA. Praise often has a negative affect. He doesn't seem to like praise and/or positive attention We do praise every tiny thing.

Concrete rewards then? Also checking you are praising the exact behaviour and describing it, not just "well done"?

We've had a lot of success with DS (not ASD, but some difficult behaviours - your description sounds like him at 3 or 4) with "caught you being good" cards. 5 of those means a new toy. If he doesn't like the body language/attention of praise he is still getting something. Interestingly just before the period of bad behaviour started, our DS also didn't like you praising him "no say good boy Mummy".