Do abusers know they are abusive?

[talksensetome]

I am not even sure if that question gets over what I mean.

Do abusive men be abusive on purpose, by which I mean do they think I am going to ruin this woman's self esteem so I can control her or I am going to cause trouble with her friends so she is all mine.

Are they manipulative so that they can be abusive or is the abuse just the 'side effect' of other behaviours?

I am asking because my bf (soon to be ex) is very controlling, jealous, manipulative but he doesn't see himself as abusive. When I brought up the subject he was horrified and thought I was being ridiculous.

For example....
He checks my social media a lot and sulks moans and demands that I remove people he doesn't approve of.
He hates my male friends and asks that I don't go out with them any more.
He tries to tell me what to wear.
He sulks and moans if any of my male work friends contact me outside of work but doesn't moan about female ones.
He calls me and texts me constantly if we are not together.
He changed his shift to be here when my ex picks up the kids and hates us having any contact even though it is regarding the children.
Sits on the edge of the bath whilst I am in it.
There is probably more but you get the picture.

Anyway I thought I could handle his behaviour but there is no reason why I should and I am going to end it but the reason I am posting is do you think he is manipulative and controlling on purpose or so you think he is just so insecure and scared of another man taking me away that his behaviour borders on abusive?

I don't know.

My ex was a bit similar to your bloke and I think he had no awareness of what he was doing. When he got in contact with me after many years he seemed to have rewritten history, but I think he believed it.

Yes, because they (my parents,) don't do it in public. Some people with frontal lobe brain injury don't.

You so often see people say manipulative controlling men are so clever but I don't think he is clever, I don't think he has deliberately set out to try and isolate me from my friends, he is just scared that they will come on to me?
Not excusing his behaviour here at all, he is too much for me to deal with, I am just genuinely interested in the psychology of it.

I'm not sure of the answer and I'll bet you get lots of other replies from people with experience of this. My stbxp is abusive in some ways too but not quite the same as yours.
I find it hard to believe they don't know what they are doing. I mean, how can they think its OK to snoop through your social media, try to tell you what to wear etc. I also have no clue if men like this ever change.
My stbxp is extremely tight with money, likes to gaslight me all the time, criticizes friends and is anti-social (unless its with his own friends), blames me for everything, is moody and bad tempered (the list goes on).
Your DP's behaviour is definitely abusive. He is controlling you and that is not acceptable. He clearly has issues but, that is not your problem. You do right to end it as it will only get worse.

Yes the ability to act differently does actually suggest they know very well what they are doing and it isn't acceptable.

The bf in question does actualky behave like this in public too, at a communion wuth my siblings he actualky yanked my top up because he thought it was too revealing and sulked in a very obvious way. At home when I questioned him he said no one else there was dressed like that! I was definitlwy 100% not inappropriately dressed.

Who cares if he realizes it or not. Your boyfriend is horribly abusive and you can't get away from him fast enough. Please, just dump his ass NOW. Don't wait.

I think that sometimes people* can get confused about whether they are being creepy/smothering or romantic/protective/cherishing etc etc - quite a few unreasonably clingy/needy/possessive behaviours are portrayed as positive symbols of affection in films and TV.
It is a bit like how films often solve things with a heroic fistfight, but in real life that would just get you an assault charge on top of your previous angsty situation.

However, it must also be said that the vast majority of people are able to distinguish between real life acceptable behaviour and dramatic, fictionalised behaviour, especially by the time they are in their twenties and above and have been exposed to relationships of their own and amongst their peers for a bit.

*not always!
**not just men

My now dh used to be really jealous of any male I ever mentioned. I told him that it was really unattractive and if he didnt stop he would be single. The thing is as soon as he met any male friends he realised that they were really nice (duh thats why theyre my friends) and would chill the fuck out.

I think that some start off just acting a bit shitty and then they get used to having their needs met and if it changes (like having a child) the abusiveness comes out because they don't like the new dynamic.

Your man sounds abusive in a controlling way which I would guess is more thought through than someone who flares up with a temper or something. So I'd say it's unlikely in your case.

I dunno anything about an abusers level of self awareness and, frankly, I don't know why anyone would care. For me it comes down to anyone using 'sulks and moans' is just not worth my time. If there is a problem, talk to me and lets sort it out. Sulkers and moaners, not so interested in anything changing as in it being all about them.

An occasional moan might be ok, if it were very short and led to a rueful 'smile and a what am i like' followed by 'so what's going on for you, how are you doing' with genuine interest.

I think some think its normal and that thats how relationships should be. Possibly modelled on the relationships they saw growing up.

Aqua I am definitely 100% getting out of the relationship, I am under no delusions that if I just fix him he will be fine, it just set me to wondering if they actualky know what they are doing.

Yes I very much apologise, abusive people come in all sexes and I shouldn't have used men in my post.

I reckon they do - on one level, which they don't dwell on

Their unreasonable reactions (moods, silences, accusations) do train their partners to tiptoe round them, to please them more, not to risk asking for anything............... There are obvious beneficial outcomes to being ''abusive'' and they know it. I only put abusive in inverted commas there because I know my x would reject the label, and yet, he would never have treated anybody else like he treated me.

I think some people have been so damaged by things that happened to them in early life that they don't know how not to be abusive. This isn't to say that others should tolerate their behaviour but it can be unintentional for those people.

I am not sure about abuse in relationships but I bullied my close friends at school (god knows why they stayed friends with me, even to this day we are still friends) and looking back I would say that I didn't fully understand how awful I was being. I knew I was hurting their feelings a little bit but I didn't realise how much my actions hurt others. I also now realise part of it was due to my own jealousy and competitiveness, which I was totally oblivious to at the time, I clearly didn't have the self awareness. They sometimes remind me how horrible I was and I almost have no recollection of it - I only remember the fun times. It's like I have wiped my own bad behaviour from my memory.

No OP, most abusers don't know that they are abusers and refuse to accept that this is the case when presented with the evidence. Even being sent to prison doesn't convince them.

Hohoho I used to make that excuse for my X but he knew to be respectful to his aunts, his mother, his colleagues, his boss, anybody who might be able to do him favours,...

So 'intimacy' was abuse, or intimacy gave a licence for abuse I guess. Negative intimacy. As soon as you were close to him, you owed him

I have grown to believe that they just feel they were entitled to subservience, obedience, respect. They treated you like they treated you because you were less than them and you OWED them.

They'd acknowledge THAT much some of them, that you're worth less than them and that therefore you owed them the respect they were due and so, if they got angry with you, it was no wonder, you weren't showing them the respect, admiration, duty (add as applicable).

When I first met my husband I did not like him going out speaking to other girls couldn't not understand that he didn't want to be with me 24/7. It
Took me years and counselling to realise my behaviour was quite unhealthy and controlling. I couldn't see it at the time it was my own insecurity and I couldn't understand why he didn't want
To be with me 24/7. Frankly at times he now wants to be with me
A little too much!!

Some do, some don't and some take actual pleasure in causing distress. What really matters though is what we feel, the people that have escaped. People who escape abusive relationships often ponder why their abuser is abusive . Basically their abusers have done such a number on them they become a shadow of themselves they become an extension of the abuser.

If you read up on narcissism and psychopathy though these terms are bandied around too freely it is utterly petrifying what long term damage they can do to their loves, friends etc.

I have been involved via charity work with survivors of abuse, I did this because of my own experiences.

Many abusers do target vulnerable people, it sounds horrible and victim blaming but some people do show a vulnerability and abusers look for this.

My abusive stbxh is completely denies any sort of abusive behaviour. I actually think that he can't face the truth about himself so he makes up a version of the truth in his head that's more 'acceptable' to him.
I have often wondered this too OP. I suppose it doesn't matter in the end. I do disagree with some posters who said that when people are being mean or spiteful they don't know it though. I am self aware enough to know when I've been a dick. I analyse my behaviour loads and if I thought I'd hurt someone's feelings I would be really sorry. I think so anyway!

Some interesting responses here and seems very different opinions.

It doesn't occur to me to check his friends list on face book or snap chat or whatever. If he is with me then it doesn't matter how many friends he has. If he was going to flirt or cheat he would so it with or without social media. But he is that concerned with my 'friends' that he actually said to me one day, you only had 100 followers on Insta now you have 112? But he didnt see it as unreasonable that he had noted it or questioned me about it.

Peanutabutter I find that interesting that some abusers look for signs, I would love to kniw what the signs are and how they go about finding vulnerable people. Those are like the child abusers that target single mums I guess.

I wish I could ask someone abusive and get honest answers about this stuff!

I think they would always deny they are abusive.

They do what they do to get their own way and their own needs met. They are selfish and entitled.