Lifelong friendship issues - I'm a (nice!) weirdo

[StHeathensGrammar]

Not even sure where I'm going with this but need to get it out...
For the past couple of weeks I've been waking everyday having memories of the same incident (was years ago). Involved some people I'd known a year or so and spent quite a lot of time with and thought we were friends. They decided because of my mental health issues they would cut me out, it was very bare-faced and brutal. It's making my heart race just typing this. I won't go into details, but an important point is that on the day I tried to calm my "irrational" thoughts that I was being excluded but it turned out to be true. I was also lied to by closest in the group; I knew it was lies but it was that sort of thing where you can't exactly pin down an obvious lie, but it just doesn't add up, iyswim. This person has (years later) apologised, and admitted the lies, and others from the group have been friendly/pleasant - overall I get the impression I was badly misjudged and they realise that.

This leads to related thing 1. One of the people, who I didn't know so well, used to be a right cow. She seems lovely nowadays, so I'm not having a go at her exactly, but I feel so hurt that she was shown acceptance whilst I was excluded. She used to get horribly drunk and abusive, and act in an inappropriately sexual (forceful!) way to uninterested men. She just sort of got batted away like a fly, and sorted herself out over time. Now I'm all for showing compassion and trying to understand people - great. But it's not universally applied. It's like some people - and I knew a man who was the same as her - get the benefit of the doubt all the time, whilst others (like me) get, if anything, the opposite. I mean, I'd find it much easier to be sympathetic to someone struggling with mental health and seeking support than someone who deals with it by drinking/taking drugs and being horrible to others - but that isn't what I've observed from others. I also feel weird about the fact that she got herself together in a relatively short time frame, whereas I'm still struggling... a bit like "it can't have been that bad for her if she's fine now" type thing. I feel a total bitch for thinking this, btw, and wouldn't say it out loud or act on it. But then I think, perhaps the fact that she was accepted and had good friends is what helped so much? And then it seems even sadder that I don't belong anywhere.

I am a bit "weird" (but in a way it seems many MNers are too!) I've never been one of the popular crowd, as it were, but always found "alternative" type people I get on with (I sound like I'm talking about the school playground; I've no idea how else to phrase it!) Just my interests, priorities, and life outlook I guess - I'd be most at home round a campfire having a good chinwag/pondering than in a club, for example. I'm quite lonely day-today now, and really miss just discussing things with others who share a vaguely similar worldview. I spent a lot of time backpacking in my early 20s (I still avoid shorter holidays in favour of a longer jaunt every few years - kind of making the most of it ready to stop if I get a chance to have children!) and frankly this saved me, making me think about a lot of things and meeting so many others who were like me and thought about the same things... but it also exacerbated another issue, which is feeling out of place and older than my peers back home. Weirdly this has finally stopped and even gone the other way in some cases - I feel ancient inside, in a way, but on the outside they have professional jobs, and/or partners and some have children, whereas I don't so seem young in those areas of life. I'm early 30s now, concerned partner/children will never happen (but not missing a relationship, in itself), and haven't had a job for years due to poor mental health (whilst on the subject, will mention I've never really made friends at work due to aforementioned weirdness).

In terms of mental health, my problems are very much due to experiences, and I've had a hell of a job trying to get help. Have had some private therapy which helped, and working on things, becoming stronger person - used to be ripe for abuse by men. But I'm sure if I'd had supportive friends I could trust things would be so much easier now. I do my thing, try to be happy, do a couple of classes so I see people regularly, but inside I feel crushed at all the rejection I've faced in my life. A lot is partly due to circumstance - I don't live near old school friends as everyone dispersed for uni, I didn't go to uni myself so didn't make friendships there, I have lived in different places in UK but seem to have been out of sync with others - eg. making friends in between travelling, but as I started to settle down a bit they started travelling and often didn't return. So didn't have the deep roots of friendship that hold firm in troubled times - ie. poor mental health. I feel devastated that I've been judged (and my god people make up horrendous rumours - proper chinese whispers stuff!) as not trying to help myself/thick/nasty when I have always had a problem-solving outlook and have gone out of my way to support others where I can. And there's another problem - I'm more happy/confident in myself, take less bullshit kind of thing, but obviosuly this makes me less "nice" and more able to cut out wankers. But if empathetic doormat me wasn't wanted, why would a more assertive version be accepted by others?

Gosh, this is really long. I had other things to mention - mainly (1) old friend (from school) who became more scathing of me over the years and stopped speaking to me when I spoke up for myself, and (2) friend who I could confide in who unfortuantely was male and got a partner who cut out several female friends of his - she has even, it turns out, spread unpleasant rumours about me, which obviously it's much easier for people to go along with she is protected by virtue of her boyfriend being good friends with them... what I find astounding though, is that another woman who was also pushed out was re-accepted and turned against me.

I'm scared. I'm scared I'm missing something and all the pieceing together of everything over the past few years is somehow "wrong" and I'm actually a terrible person.... because if people have a long run of issue with others, it's the person, right?

Oh one more thing to add to the confusion - I recently had cause to meet some of my younger sibling's friends. Sibling lives some way away, but we get on like a house on fire. Although we are quite different on the surface, we share a way of thinking about the world, the way we reason things through or thoughts that occur. Anyway, sibling is massively popular with everyone (toddlers to grannies), and sibling's friends are amazing. Early/mid 20s but really nice, thoughtful mature people - especially noticeable in the men (in comparison to my peers at that age!) Many have been friends since school. Anyway, it's like my sibling lives in a different world! Where our shared worldview/thoughts/morals make perfect sense, but I'm somehow trapped in a parallel universe...

Thoughts welcome, tips, advice, ideas...

I feel really selfish having typed all that out but this is eating me up at the moment and I could really do with an outside perspective, thank you

I suspect that your illness is shouting us all down now and stopping you being able to help yourself. What I think you long for, even while you know it's impossible, is a magic wand to make it all better. That is totally understandable in the circumstances because the road through mental illness is a long, tough, one foot in front of the other struggle. Please get back to the mental health team and find whatever it takes to get one foot in front. If you tell them you can't see the point in carrying on (and I think you are close to that point), that ought to galvanise them.

I think this is a mental health issue and not a relationships issue

I know you won't find that helpful but I've read all your posts and that's what it suggests in my opinion.

Pear I have mental health issues because I have been treated so appallingly by others. I posted here because I am trying to understand why dickheads get accepted and I rejected. Why do the bullies target me, and others go along with them? Why do others get to act appallingly and are still accepted, and I am not despite having been supportive to those people when they were in the shit?

rolo if my situation is so commonplace, how come no-one can understand it? How come the normal solutions and "rules" don't seem to apply as evidenced by years of trying to make it better?

It is ridiculous to say I dont feel comfortable telling the full story, when I have been criticised on this thread for writing too much and going into too much detail! I have also written how horrible it is that someone is always telling me what im doing is wrong, whilst doing the opposite means someone else tells me its wrong! Did you bother to read the thread? This makes no sense. Whatever i do or say, someone tells me its all my fault. Well guess what - its not my fault people have treated me like shit. I just dont play the manipulative mind games people like you favour. Stop blaming me. dickheads

I think there is only one solution.

i cant believe wrote honestly on here and some people dont care, just want to hurt me. Fuck off if you cant be helpful. And read the thread before offering your ill-informed opinions.

Posters told me i wrote too much, then others tell me im not telling the full story! Cant you see this is what has broken my brain? I am never good enough for anyone, whatever i do is wrong i shouldnbt exist

why cant people just be nic to each other, and being nice mean you have friends? why did men hurt me and people take advantage or turn on me? why have people goy away with bullying me yet pretend to be nice to othrs? why are people so hrrible nd manipulative not just honest and nice? it hurts so much i need to die

i am not made for this world, i come from somewhere people re nice to ech oher and not ply mind games

I had an ex that spoke and acted very similarly to you op.

He had depression but also a massive victim complex. He genuinely couldn't see anything that he ever did wrong.

He was paranoid that everyone didn't like him because he was a 'nice guy' and that others didn't want to spend time around him.

The honest truth is, his crippling self esteem issues, constant paranoia and victim complex was absolutely exhausting. He'd go on and on about how nice he was and how unfair everything was.

Being around him was like having a black cloud over your head,

im soconfused just pain, mind unravling, fightend, by existing i am wrong and bad and deserve pain, i can be pefect nd still not good enough, i dont know why i couldnt be worth s much as thers

Do you drink a lot op?

wheras being around a owman who drinks heavily and hits people is great? why was she accepted? you evil bully, hope it happens to you so you uderstand

no i dont drink. i ahve alwys tid to be nice but am wothless and always bullied

You aren't worthless. Ring your mental health team in the morning and tell them you need urgent help because you're so down.

I've just called crisis team. They were very nice. They can't DO anything though. Its a shame they werent like this years ago - feels like it come too late.

StHeathens I hope you are still there.

I believe you are right - you DO need love to heal, non-judgemental love and acceptance from another human being.

What I think you are trying to do here is 'problem solve' around the reasons why you haven't yet made that friend / have experienced rejection & hurt in the past, before you risk getting out there to reach out and try to make friends.

There have been amazing insights & compassion on this thread, I think this is one of the most valuable threads I have ever read on MN.

And also the input from others which has been in stark contrast to the compassion, which has been more critical or showing no understanding of the pain you are in, has been valuable in its own way - showing how we all react differently to the same information, based on our own experiences.

Criticism won't help you right now. You may also be hyper-sensitive to perceived criticism too, but it can be really hard to be objective when you are in so much pain.

You sound like an amazing insightful, truthful person. And you are in great pain.

Maybe there is a different solution to this, that doesn't involve understanding the motives and actions of everyone else, or working out how you need to act, to provoke a different reaction from potential friends?

I think between all the posts, the answers are in here somehow ...

Know you are a precious, amazing, insightful, kind person, a person who will be a valuable, loyal friend.

There appears to be a sense of humour lurking under there, I expect you are witty and intelligent & a good conversationalist.

I'm trying to pull all the thoughts together that I've had, after reading and re-reading this thread.

Please hang in there. You are probably closer than you think to your own personal break-through and growth.

I notice you are very very hard on yourself - is there any way at all you could afford private therapy? Could your sister help you financially afford this? Maybe the next phase for you is to get to the point of deeper self acceptance and self love. Therapy can help you get there, though that is a long, slow and very painful process (and privately can be expensive).

One thing that is free, and I find has been enormously helpful in my life is being grateful - it's a mindshift and can be difficult at first. List the things you are grateful for, over time the list grows and your outlook becomes more positive as you look for the positive.

There is a lot of goodwill for you here on this thread.
Xx

It is ridiculous to say I dont feel comfortable telling the full story, when I have been criticised on this thread for writing too much and going into too much detail!

Yes, you'e been given different criticisms by different people. People are different. Not all people are the same. Maybe part of the issue is that you see all people as one undifferentiated mass so they seem very contradictory, instead of seeing people as different people.

People are different. they all want and think and need different things.

Thing is rolo, it makes to so hard to figure out the "right" thing to do! I think a large part of the problem is that I can't/don't fully trust my own judgement because I have been told so much that it is wrong/I should please others (hence being an abusers dream in the past). I'm better at it now, but when my brain is exhausted and mangled I freeze in terror and daren't think/say/do anything in case it's "wrong" and makes someone angry.

It's not so much about seeing people as all the same, but trying to please everyone so no-one has any reason to be cross with me or hurt me. Also if one needs support, people (including mental health services) generally only give it if you agree with them about the best course of action. I feel untrue to myself then, so I generally don't ask for support anymore, although that causes another problem because if people find out how I feel or see me breaking down they urge me to seek support and tell me I'm not trying to "help myself" if I don't - argh!

But how on earth should I write a post if I am going to be simultaneously criticised for writing too much/not writing enough? Do you see what I mean? It makes me just frozen, unable to do anything.

Celery thanks, a lot in your post to think about.

My view now is that I am just broken beyond repair in this world. Not totally beyond repair in general, but others I've met like me have had a lovely partner/supportive friends or something which is essential, and I just don't have and won't have, realistically speaking. I can't even speak to people about stuff in real life because I freeze up and plaster a smile on and act all jovial. I never used to understand how people could commit suicide and be hiding it up until then - now I understand. I wish the mental health services were less counter-intuitive, and had helped me when I asked rather than waiting until I hide stuff to take me seriously!

Also if one needs support, people (including mental health services) generally only give it if you agree with them about the best course of action. I feel untrue to myself then, so I generally don't ask for support anymore, although that causes another problem because if people find out how I feel or see me breaking down they urge me to seek support and tell me I'm not trying to "help myself" if I don't - argh!

Brilliantly expressed.

To answer some of your questions.... These are just my opinions not facts but they're what I've observed over the years.

Firstly regarding friends. I've realised that most people are passive. They want the least trouble but at the same time don't want to actively hurt anyone else. So when an aggressive person is added to the dynamic they would rather follow that person and keep quiet rather than risk confrontation and go the other way. They're not even doing it consciously. It's why people turn a blind eye to abuse and bullying.

There is also another factor to add to the dynamic...the general lack of knowledge about mental health issues. It's why we struggle to find help ourselves but also why others don't or can't help us in the best way. Because not many of us understand what is going on when someone has a mental health issue.

My own experience has been a long road to therapy that I pay for privately. I was told it was my personality by family and friends for many years as they knew no different. But actually it is often due to childhood or adolescent trauma or abandonment...or both. Sadly, aggressive types are attracted to those of us with untreated mental health issues because we are easier to manipulate and it's easy to blame our minds for what is wrong in the relationship.

On the other hand, it is bloody hard for people who don't suffer to understand what to do to help so these relationships fail too.

Really the only route is to pay for therapy and read lots of material on healing the inner child and self sabotage stuff. I watched all of an American therapists stuff on family trauma... I'll Google his name. It was one of the first steps I took to understanding what was going on.

Healing takes a bloody long time. But it is not impossible and happens gradually, with set backs along the way.

This is a low point for you. 5 years ago I was also very alone. I found my dp in my mid thirties. I refound some old friends. I've discovered friends are different the older you are. The relationships are less intense with less frequent meet ups. Like once a month if that. And actually my brain is happy with that. I still get paranoid but I have my therapist to talk it through with.

One last thing. Minds that have suffered trauma as the result of others actions don't trust other people. So friendships are never without some distrust, which other people seem to pick up on no matter how you mask it. In short you can have meaningful relationships but I don't think they were the same as those who have not suffered the same level of abuse.

The therapist is John Bradshaw Homecoming is the series. Find it on you tube. It's oldish but it was amazing for me to watch and see how many people in his audience and groups had the same feelings. Was like a watershed moment for me finding it. Did it help? Yes, it helps to understand why our brains react the way they do and that there really is very little divergence in the way brains react to abuse and therefore the more you understand the issue the more you can start the process of reprogramming.

Thanks.
I dont really know how to come to terms with the normalised lack of community people live with. Meeting up with friends once a month?

... not that I want to "meet up" exactly, but just popping in for a cuppa/babysitting each others' DC, that sort of thing.

I sometimes think that wanting a natural and easy social life is a bit like wanting to be rich. It would be lovely to have it but it's not a right. Some people get it and some plain don't get it and that's not necessarily a reflection of someone's worth or work or effort but is more often than not due to a whole host of factors, many of which really are out of our control - despite the kind of new age beliefs that have infected our culture, from top to bottom, that insists we are in control - of everything if we put our mind to it. And aren't somehow deficient..).

But yes it can hurt in an acute way when what is broadly touted as a right is not forthcoming - hard not to take it personally, especially as, of itself, it hurts, aside from the moral judgements we slap on top. But it is very often not personal but a series of circumstances out of our control and not a personal indictment at all.

Just as some people get an easy social life and it's baffling bcs they are mingers, some people seem to just get and have a goodly amount of money somehow. And don't anybody say it's all down to hard work grrr

The money analogy is good Springydaffs. I've been thinking in a similar way.

I once heard someone observe that 'once you have money, it's much easier to get more money'. I think it's the same with love and friendship. When you have a certain amount of it 'in the bank', it's easy to get more - and more, and more, should you want more and more.

It's as if there's a key threshold, and when you get below it, it's very difficult to get back above it. And you find that you are putting your mind to working at it - it's no longer something natural, so spontaneity leaves and it becomes infused with stress.

I sometimes think that wanting a natural and easy social life is a bit like wanting to be rich. It would be lovely to have it but it's not a right.

But I would disagree slightly with the bit about it not being a right. it might not be a right, but I would say that social connection and social validation are basic human needs.

When a need isn't met we falter and struggle and find ourselves pursuing unhealthy ways of getting that need met, or turning in on ourselves. We can take responsibility for getting our needs met, but with friendship and social connection we do rely on the agreement and willingness of other human beings.

Absolutely it is a basic social need to have meaningful connections with others - and can hurt very deeply when those connections aren't present.

But it isn't a right bcs a belief that is a right compounds the pain of the legitimate need for it. Not having it is bad enough. Believing I'm sub human because I don't have it turns what is very painful into very damaging..