Lifelong friendship issues - I'm a (nice!) weirdo

[StHeathensGrammar]

Not even sure where I'm going with this but need to get it out...
For the past couple of weeks I've been waking everyday having memories of the same incident (was years ago). Involved some people I'd known a year or so and spent quite a lot of time with and thought we were friends. They decided because of my mental health issues they would cut me out, it was very bare-faced and brutal. It's making my heart race just typing this. I won't go into details, but an important point is that on the day I tried to calm my "irrational" thoughts that I was being excluded but it turned out to be true. I was also lied to by closest in the group; I knew it was lies but it was that sort of thing where you can't exactly pin down an obvious lie, but it just doesn't add up, iyswim. This person has (years later) apologised, and admitted the lies, and others from the group have been friendly/pleasant - overall I get the impression I was badly misjudged and they realise that.

This leads to related thing 1. One of the people, who I didn't know so well, used to be a right cow. She seems lovely nowadays, so I'm not having a go at her exactly, but I feel so hurt that she was shown acceptance whilst I was excluded. She used to get horribly drunk and abusive, and act in an inappropriately sexual (forceful!) way to uninterested men. She just sort of got batted away like a fly, and sorted herself out over time. Now I'm all for showing compassion and trying to understand people - great. But it's not universally applied. It's like some people - and I knew a man who was the same as her - get the benefit of the doubt all the time, whilst others (like me) get, if anything, the opposite. I mean, I'd find it much easier to be sympathetic to someone struggling with mental health and seeking support than someone who deals with it by drinking/taking drugs and being horrible to others - but that isn't what I've observed from others. I also feel weird about the fact that she got herself together in a relatively short time frame, whereas I'm still struggling... a bit like "it can't have been that bad for her if she's fine now" type thing. I feel a total bitch for thinking this, btw, and wouldn't say it out loud or act on it. But then I think, perhaps the fact that she was accepted and had good friends is what helped so much? And then it seems even sadder that I don't belong anywhere.

I am a bit "weird" (but in a way it seems many MNers are too!) I've never been one of the popular crowd, as it were, but always found "alternative" type people I get on with (I sound like I'm talking about the school playground; I've no idea how else to phrase it!) Just my interests, priorities, and life outlook I guess - I'd be most at home round a campfire having a good chinwag/pondering than in a club, for example. I'm quite lonely day-today now, and really miss just discussing things with others who share a vaguely similar worldview. I spent a lot of time backpacking in my early 20s (I still avoid shorter holidays in favour of a longer jaunt every few years - kind of making the most of it ready to stop if I get a chance to have children!) and frankly this saved me, making me think about a lot of things and meeting so many others who were like me and thought about the same things... but it also exacerbated another issue, which is feeling out of place and older than my peers back home. Weirdly this has finally stopped and even gone the other way in some cases - I feel ancient inside, in a way, but on the outside they have professional jobs, and/or partners and some have children, whereas I don't so seem young in those areas of life. I'm early 30s now, concerned partner/children will never happen (but not missing a relationship, in itself), and haven't had a job for years due to poor mental health (whilst on the subject, will mention I've never really made friends at work due to aforementioned weirdness).

In terms of mental health, my problems are very much due to experiences, and I've had a hell of a job trying to get help. Have had some private therapy which helped, and working on things, becoming stronger person - used to be ripe for abuse by men. But I'm sure if I'd had supportive friends I could trust things would be so much easier now. I do my thing, try to be happy, do a couple of classes so I see people regularly, but inside I feel crushed at all the rejection I've faced in my life. A lot is partly due to circumstance - I don't live near old school friends as everyone dispersed for uni, I didn't go to uni myself so didn't make friendships there, I have lived in different places in UK but seem to have been out of sync with others - eg. making friends in between travelling, but as I started to settle down a bit they started travelling and often didn't return. So didn't have the deep roots of friendship that hold firm in troubled times - ie. poor mental health. I feel devastated that I've been judged (and my god people make up horrendous rumours - proper chinese whispers stuff!) as not trying to help myself/thick/nasty when I have always had a problem-solving outlook and have gone out of my way to support others where I can. And there's another problem - I'm more happy/confident in myself, take less bullshit kind of thing, but obviosuly this makes me less "nice" and more able to cut out wankers. But if empathetic doormat me wasn't wanted, why would a more assertive version be accepted by others?

Gosh, this is really long. I had other things to mention - mainly (1) old friend (from school) who became more scathing of me over the years and stopped speaking to me when I spoke up for myself, and (2) friend who I could confide in who unfortuantely was male and got a partner who cut out several female friends of his - she has even, it turns out, spread unpleasant rumours about me, which obviously it's much easier for people to go along with she is protected by virtue of her boyfriend being good friends with them... what I find astounding though, is that another woman who was also pushed out was re-accepted and turned against me.

I'm scared. I'm scared I'm missing something and all the pieceing together of everything over the past few years is somehow "wrong" and I'm actually a terrible person.... because if people have a long run of issue with others, it's the person, right?

Oh one more thing to add to the confusion - I recently had cause to meet some of my younger sibling's friends. Sibling lives some way away, but we get on like a house on fire. Although we are quite different on the surface, we share a way of thinking about the world, the way we reason things through or thoughts that occur. Anyway, sibling is massively popular with everyone (toddlers to grannies), and sibling's friends are amazing. Early/mid 20s but really nice, thoughtful mature people - especially noticeable in the men (in comparison to my peers at that age!) Many have been friends since school. Anyway, it's like my sibling lives in a different world! Where our shared worldview/thoughts/morals make perfect sense, but I'm somehow trapped in a parallel universe...

Thoughts welcome, tips, advice, ideas...

I feel really selfish having typed all that out but this is eating me up at the moment and I could really do with an outside perspective, thank you

So you don't want to share your experience with us ICE? Aw.

This thread is great. Such valuable contributions.

I think you need some help in spotting the signs of people who aren't good for you

You sound nice, OP. At least you're not nasty like PollyPerky. I don't have anything to suggest but I can see others have.

Thanks. Apologies, have been without internet unexpectedly for a couple of days.

re. suggestions I need help/support - I can't get it. I won't tell the full sorry story but I have tried, for many years, and the NHS just doesn't offer the kind of help I need (or wont to me). I am still trying but frankly they seem to make it worse - service is not based in what we know about psychological healing, it's cut to the bone, so focused on making people go away.

I am doing things - I've already mentioned studying and classes. I'm not good with regular times and also am coping at my max right now so picking up anything else is very hard. I've never hung around bored or whatever - have always had little (or big!) projects on the go. I have been finding just managing the basics (e.g. healthy eating) difficult and time-consuming, especially recently as find myself weeping and dazed and the "little me" in my head just crying and crying and needing comfort.

I'm finding it upsetting being accused of being self-absorbed - of course I am talking about me if I am trying to figure out personal issues! Of course if I am broken inside I need to look at it and fix it! I posted here specifically to address this issue - obviously I need to talk about me and my experiences to address it. There are so many assumptions made about me on this thread which is why I have to explain so much but then it's too long.
I feel dreadful, I feel in so much pain and I have to hide it from people. It feels the only way to stop the pain is to die. I thought I could be honest here but now I'm starting to feel the detachment inside like I have to stick a fake smile on and pretend to be fine for all you, too.

A really difficult thing is people are saying stuff, giving advice, and I think "but my experience doesn't bear that out". People tell me to do stuff or think a certain way that is actually how I used to think, and didn't work out for me! Or stuff I am already doing! eg. I do have pets I love to bits (I can care for them when I cant for me). I do as much as I can to improve life, and always have. I used to cope more with things, but due to constant rejection and failure despite always trying to make things better, I have become more broken. Its so frustrating to be treated as if I've only just started trying to work on this. It's been constant, but the solutions that work for others dont seem to for me.

im just in so much pain, weeping, dozy etc. I feel so, so exhausted just from keeping going, and like whatever I do is wrong. I cant please people anymore.

Im so sorry if im saying anything wrong. Just exhausted, as if nothing left to give,no energy to survive. i wish I could have been one o the people who's accepted and not expected to be perfect. i just want the pain to stop, no-one could say i havent tried. Im exhausted.

When I was like that I knew I couldn't die bcs I would hurt a few people unbearably, probably for life. So that option was out. Sigh.

I felt I had a body, arms and legs, and I could do something with them for people who needed bods, arms, legs. It's why I started working with the homeless. I didn't engage with my feelings about it - my feelings were dead - I just did it, if that makes sense. I didn't have a lot of energy so I did short shifts.

NHS MH - useless. No £ for anything remotely decent. It's quite agonising to hear you've been beating on a locked door trying to get your needs met by an org that simply won't. Ime I have cobbled together my own therapy by paying for it. And I've been poor most of my adult life, so it can be done. Most therapists offer a sliding fee scale - look at BACP to find therapists in your area. Women's orgs, MIND, offer low cost therapy if £ is an issue.

Ime I've kissed a LOT of frogs but just kept going - no choice. I've done a lot of courses and read a lot of books - it's a lifetime's work.

If eg your family is toxic then eg ACOA is a good org to get behind. It stands for Adult Children of Alcoholics - but the longer title is Adult Children Of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional Families. I certainly met my tribe there...

You sound very alone but I assure you, you're not. There are hoards of us out here on a similar path, cobbling together whatever we can find to get some release. You really aren't the only one

Im exhausted

Then stop. Go to sleep, watch a film, cuddle your pet. Stop thinking and trying - it isn't working. Let go xx

I dont think I explained that very well.

Basically i think the problem is that I am too broken, and have been through too much. Not having received support/care when things were simpler means the picture has become complicated beyond repair. A massive load of love, being accepted and cherished for who I am might provide the environment in which to finally heal - but in a grim catch 22 the truth is that wont happen precisely because I am too broken. Its all so very, very sad.

Thank you all for your support x

You and me both! I assure you, you aren't the only one... with unbearable pain, neglect, hideous and repeated appalling beggar's-belief experiences, a howling lack of love. There are loads of us.

whoops x-posts, didnt refresh page.

I meant I am exhausted in life generally, not specifically physically exhausted now.

If I stop thinking and trying then I will be blamed for feeling bad and not helping myself! If I stop trying I will stay in bed forever and there will be no possible hope left. I'm sorry, not trying to say anything wrong - its just so hard like whatever I do someone advises me to do something else... So hard to know whats right.

I have tried private therapy which helped at first but then she seemed to stop connecting. She couldn't understand why it mattered for me to understand this stuff. And didn't believe the NHS wouldn't help me, let alone helping me wok through the "difficult" past experiences with them. It appears hard to get private they without some support - I assume due to covering themselves in case you die.

Thank you for your messages, I really appreciate someone "listening" x

I think you are overthinking things and investing too much in people. I dont mean that in a negative sense, I do think people can be trusted in general but the thing is you cant always rely on them and they are all usually flawed to varying extents.
I tend to find you get the most out of friendships when you expect nothing more than to enjoy someones company when they are free to give it.
When you start thinking about what people think of you and why, what people should be doing for you and what it represents thats when it tends to run into problems.
I try not to think of friendship like that.
If i like someone because i enjoy their company then that is what is important to me. If they want to spend time with me then i spend time with them. If they start acting like they dont want to spend time with me then i dont spend time with them and i find someone else to spend time with. Sometimes people are just busy and eventually start wanting to hang out with you again and sometimes theyve just moved on in their life and they dont come back.
Its best not to take anything anyone does personally. People are all going thru loads of their own stuff and whatever they do will be coloured and dictated largely by stuff you dont really see.
I honestly think that to get the best out of other people you need to just take them at face value and have no expectations.

Getting bogged down in ruminating over peoples internal motivations and intentions doesnt really lead you anywhere positive.

Actually, tiptop, I am bogged down by being hurt by people - trying to figure out what went on is me trying to feel better. Its hard not to take it personally because it is fucking personal. I ONLY started thinking about what others think of me precisely because of how I got treated. Im not expecting people to do anything for me. I know I need a shit ton of love to heal, but i dont expect it! I think it incredibly unlikely in fact.

But do not blame this on me, when others have got accepted whilst behaving appallingly.

i think also it does come from self esteem. The less you love yourself the more you will feel people are rejecting you or have negative motivations.
I know it seems like you need to look at other people to try and understand the hurt you feel they are causing you but really its often internal. Its more about how you feel about yourself.
Its like sometimes when you are in an awful mood and you get on a bus or something and hear people laughing and you assume they are laughing at you. You will never know whether they are or not really but the way you feel about it will be completely coloured by how you feel about yourself in that moment. If youre in a good mood youd just think they were laughing at something one of them had said etc

Youll never actually be able to get inside someone elses head and get any answers that you know categorically are true about what they really think and feel. But you can get inside your own head and work on how you feel about yourself. If you know for sure you are someone with value then you will find it much easier to assume that other people like you. And that in turn will probably actually make other people respond to you better.

So i think as PP have said its about trying to make yourself stop dwelling on how other people see you and what they are all up to.
Focus on yourself in the moment. Think about whats good about you and what gives you pleasure. Be kind to yourself whenever you are upset about something instead of going over and over it endlessly.

im not blaming it on you!! Im just saying that you cant do much about the behaviour of others and that trying to figure out why they have done what they have done is probably not going to lead you to feeling better because its an impossible task.
Im sorry if i came across as harsh! i didnt mean to

Basically whatever i do is wrong. When people dont work on themselves or acknowledge their issues, they get blamed. If they do, they are self-absorbed and ruminating which is also "wrong". If I listen to others, i'd blame and hate myself, yet I am also told by others I should be kind and compassionate to myself. I am sick of advice from people who have just done the simple thing and its worked - it hasn't for me, so they assume i'm doing something wrong. I DID take people at face value, FFS but honestly you must know others dont work like that! They have all sorts of stuff going on below the surface, taking them at face value is disasterous! Clearly i am just inherently inadequate. I am exhausted with life.

I will be blamed for feeling bad

By whom? Fuck them, it's you who is leading your life.

private therapy which helped at first but then she seemed to stop connecting . Find another therapist. If it happens again, have a look at that with the therapist - it may be you who has stopped connecting.

You have to not take this stuff personally. If you had a bad leg would you take it personally? Same with mental health. If, say, a symptom presenting itself is self-absorption, you have to look at that dispassionately: "hmmm, why would someone do that?" You have to be a bit of a Sherlock, hunt for the clues. No judgement, no condemnation, just the facts as they present themselves. If someone is berating you, get rid of them. If it's you who is berating you, turn her off, go to sleep - forever, if need be. It won't be, but no matter.

Anyway, you can't force love in just the way you want. We all want a certain kind of love, not everybody gets it. What you do get, though, is not half bad, if you look. Eg you've had a LOT of love on this thread - many posters posting from the heart. It doesn't get better than that tbf. (don't take that as an opportunity to beat yourself up that you didn't see it).

Have a heart for that poor woman (I assume) who is hurting a great deal. Bit of loving kindness wouldn't go amiss. Forget all the Deep Questions and the Why oh Whys: have a good time, enjoy yourself, read a mag.

Anyway, hush now, turn off your head. You didn't get the love you wanted, and needed, and that's that. You and many of us xx

thing is, if I cant figure out why people have acted that way, then i can't solve the problem. It all seems impossible

I'm not trying to force love in the way I want. Im just aware what I need. I thought i'd already spelled that out. I do expect to be treated the same as others tho - and i dont think a drunken cow hitting people deserves more acceptance than me.
Im just a total fuckup - bad experiences and bad luck if nothing else.

You do seem very keen to be a bit 'off' with all these people who are trying so hard to try and help and advise you and I wonder why that is? Almost like you're looking for something negative in what they write

I think you've had some great advice and people sharing their personal stories. You probably need a really good counsellor to try and un pick all of this

LittleGreenPear The OP is in pain and has been very resourceful to date. She is out of energy and out of obvious solutions. Your comment isn't helpful.

I'm sure it isn't. But then it doesn't appear that many of the other thoughtful comments on here have been either

I'm not looking for something negative! This exact point has already been covered in this thread - posters were saying my OP was long and detailed. This is why! - because I have to include everything otherwise people make suggestions that miss the point or aren't helpful in my particular circumstances.

Its so hard - people make up stuff in their heads about me and then take it out on me. Am I supposed to say "gosh, how helpful" when people suggest stuff I've already repeatedly tried to no avail? This is whats so awful about it all - it really feels like I live in a different world where the usual "rules" don't apply, cause-and-effect doesn't seem to be the same. I've spoken to the mental health crisis team again and according to my notes I'm not going to get proper therapy. Yet I am expected to keep "seeking help" by others - like banging my head against a brick wall.

It's like i'm not supposed to exist; my situation is considered so invalid people sort of pretend it's not real, or something. I'm also scared whatever I think, feel, or do is wrong, because someone will always criticise it and tell me I should be doing this other thing/the opposite. It seems if you require support in any way, it's dependent on pleasing the person and doing exactly what they say, which doesn't seem right.

Also, thank you tormentil, your comments have been very helpful. I don't think people can wrap their heads around the idea of someone constantly trying to improve things, learn, understand, for 20 yrs (since early teens) and just be exhausted with it all, with not having the things others seem to acquire with little effort (jobs, friends, partners etc). That scenario just doesn't exist in their world.

I've recently had cancer, all gone now after gruesome treatment. People ask, kindly, " are you in remission? "

Here's a heads up: we cancer survivors don't like that word. It suggests we're hanging by a thread that at any moment could snap. But the people who use that word? They mean well, mostly. Most people want to show they care and they use the lingo to show some level of solidarity. Except it's the wrong word. We reeeeeally don't like that word and it's like being hit with a hammer when people use it.

Do I bite off their heads? Yes I do. Then apologise immediately: they meant well! They really did mean well and are being as kindly as they can be - better than those who drop you bcs they 'can't cope' (ffs!) with cancer and 'don't know what to say' - so say nothing! Nothing at all!

Posters are saying stuff on here and may be getting it wrong. Can you see we mean well? Trying to get it right, for your sake. Does that offer some solace? Can you be grateful for all of us, who have taken time to post, not just the posters who are saying what you want to hear?

Again, not chiding. These are life skills that contribute to a happier life xx

i don't think you are looking for advice, not really. You are very quick to jump on anyone who offers you any. I think you are so tired, you really can't engage with it. And that's honestly okay. This isn't the right time for advice. Just internally acknowledge this is a venting space.

The banal truth is that no one is that unique and no one's situation is that complicated and special. People are rescued from 20 years in a bunker and can still get to some semblance of normality. You think that there is something super special and complex about your life but there likely isn't.

Unfortunately you don't feel comfortable telling us the full story, just insisting that we don't know what it is. That makes it difficult to advise but easy to dismiss advice. maybe that's a form of protection. You are certainly entitled to one.