Lifelong friendship issues - I'm a (nice!) weirdo

[StHeathensGrammar]

Not even sure where I'm going with this but need to get it out...
For the past couple of weeks I've been waking everyday having memories of the same incident (was years ago). Involved some people I'd known a year or so and spent quite a lot of time with and thought we were friends. They decided because of my mental health issues they would cut me out, it was very bare-faced and brutal. It's making my heart race just typing this. I won't go into details, but an important point is that on the day I tried to calm my "irrational" thoughts that I was being excluded but it turned out to be true. I was also lied to by closest in the group; I knew it was lies but it was that sort of thing where you can't exactly pin down an obvious lie, but it just doesn't add up, iyswim. This person has (years later) apologised, and admitted the lies, and others from the group have been friendly/pleasant - overall I get the impression I was badly misjudged and they realise that.

This leads to related thing 1. One of the people, who I didn't know so well, used to be a right cow. She seems lovely nowadays, so I'm not having a go at her exactly, but I feel so hurt that she was shown acceptance whilst I was excluded. She used to get horribly drunk and abusive, and act in an inappropriately sexual (forceful!) way to uninterested men. She just sort of got batted away like a fly, and sorted herself out over time. Now I'm all for showing compassion and trying to understand people - great. But it's not universally applied. It's like some people - and I knew a man who was the same as her - get the benefit of the doubt all the time, whilst others (like me) get, if anything, the opposite. I mean, I'd find it much easier to be sympathetic to someone struggling with mental health and seeking support than someone who deals with it by drinking/taking drugs and being horrible to others - but that isn't what I've observed from others. I also feel weird about the fact that she got herself together in a relatively short time frame, whereas I'm still struggling... a bit like "it can't have been that bad for her if she's fine now" type thing. I feel a total bitch for thinking this, btw, and wouldn't say it out loud or act on it. But then I think, perhaps the fact that she was accepted and had good friends is what helped so much? And then it seems even sadder that I don't belong anywhere.

I am a bit "weird" (but in a way it seems many MNers are too!) I've never been one of the popular crowd, as it were, but always found "alternative" type people I get on with (I sound like I'm talking about the school playground; I've no idea how else to phrase it!) Just my interests, priorities, and life outlook I guess - I'd be most at home round a campfire having a good chinwag/pondering than in a club, for example. I'm quite lonely day-today now, and really miss just discussing things with others who share a vaguely similar worldview. I spent a lot of time backpacking in my early 20s (I still avoid shorter holidays in favour of a longer jaunt every few years - kind of making the most of it ready to stop if I get a chance to have children!) and frankly this saved me, making me think about a lot of things and meeting so many others who were like me and thought about the same things... but it also exacerbated another issue, which is feeling out of place and older than my peers back home. Weirdly this has finally stopped and even gone the other way in some cases - I feel ancient inside, in a way, but on the outside they have professional jobs, and/or partners and some have children, whereas I don't so seem young in those areas of life. I'm early 30s now, concerned partner/children will never happen (but not missing a relationship, in itself), and haven't had a job for years due to poor mental health (whilst on the subject, will mention I've never really made friends at work due to aforementioned weirdness).

In terms of mental health, my problems are very much due to experiences, and I've had a hell of a job trying to get help. Have had some private therapy which helped, and working on things, becoming stronger person - used to be ripe for abuse by men. But I'm sure if I'd had supportive friends I could trust things would be so much easier now. I do my thing, try to be happy, do a couple of classes so I see people regularly, but inside I feel crushed at all the rejection I've faced in my life. A lot is partly due to circumstance - I don't live near old school friends as everyone dispersed for uni, I didn't go to uni myself so didn't make friendships there, I have lived in different places in UK but seem to have been out of sync with others - eg. making friends in between travelling, but as I started to settle down a bit they started travelling and often didn't return. So didn't have the deep roots of friendship that hold firm in troubled times - ie. poor mental health. I feel devastated that I've been judged (and my god people make up horrendous rumours - proper chinese whispers stuff!) as not trying to help myself/thick/nasty when I have always had a problem-solving outlook and have gone out of my way to support others where I can. And there's another problem - I'm more happy/confident in myself, take less bullshit kind of thing, but obviosuly this makes me less "nice" and more able to cut out wankers. But if empathetic doormat me wasn't wanted, why would a more assertive version be accepted by others?

Gosh, this is really long. I had other things to mention - mainly (1) old friend (from school) who became more scathing of me over the years and stopped speaking to me when I spoke up for myself, and (2) friend who I could confide in who unfortuantely was male and got a partner who cut out several female friends of his - she has even, it turns out, spread unpleasant rumours about me, which obviously it's much easier for people to go along with she is protected by virtue of her boyfriend being good friends with them... what I find astounding though, is that another woman who was also pushed out was re-accepted and turned against me.

I'm scared. I'm scared I'm missing something and all the pieceing together of everything over the past few years is somehow "wrong" and I'm actually a terrible person.... because if people have a long run of issue with others, it's the person, right?

Oh one more thing to add to the confusion - I recently had cause to meet some of my younger sibling's friends. Sibling lives some way away, but we get on like a house on fire. Although we are quite different on the surface, we share a way of thinking about the world, the way we reason things through or thoughts that occur. Anyway, sibling is massively popular with everyone (toddlers to grannies), and sibling's friends are amazing. Early/mid 20s but really nice, thoughtful mature people - especially noticeable in the men (in comparison to my peers at that age!) Many have been friends since school. Anyway, it's like my sibling lives in a different world! Where our shared worldview/thoughts/morals make perfect sense, but I'm somehow trapped in a parallel universe...

Thoughts welcome, tips, advice, ideas...

I feel really selfish having typed all that out but this is eating me up at the moment and I could really do with an outside perspective, thank you

I know exactly that feeling that other people know the rules and are accepted even if they behave like douchebags.

I've know people who when they are fun are great but were really passive aggressive whiny bastards who acted like they had the only people who had emotions ever. They treated people like shit such as always being late and never washing, but people accepted them.

Whereas I could find that people were friendly with me one minute then treat me like I never existed the next, when I had done precisely nothing to warrant it.
I remember when I had depression barely a handful of people seemed to bother since apparently I wasn't allowed to be depressed it would seem!

I don't think you got the rules wrong. It's just that people can act very oddly sometimes. It's really hard, because it's so jarring.

I also feel like you that something like this can feel like the end of the world. At least until I make sense out of the pattern. And if I can't do that, I'll obsess about it.

But it usually does resolve itself sooner or later. Once I've come to terms with it.

just why, PollyPerky, just why bother with that contribution?

I hear you! I have also just really had a lot of bad luck in that department. I've moved around a lot to study and for jobs so have always been the new girl in a new city trying to find a way into established friendship circles (usually unsuccessfully). I've also been unfortunate that some of these jobs were shift hours which made it impossible to meet people in the evenings and weekends.

I've always made a lot of effort to make friends but I've never really been able to get a close circle together. I'm good with people when I first meet them and am also often the one getting the conversation started. My current partner's friends said they liked me because I seem really sociable and friendly (hmm). Whenever I think I've finally made a couple of good friends, something will happen to make me realise that we're not, such as they get married and I'm not invited etc.

I tried joining meetup groups more recently when I moved to my current city a few years ago (I'm now 37) which didn't help as it was always new people at each event, sigh. And at work for the last few years I was the oldest by about 10 years at my workplace and was never invited out to the after-work drinking sessions (before that I freelanced from home, so no work colleagues to bond with and before that I worked in a different continent).

Which brings me to here... I'm a few months away from getting married and am mortified that I don't have any friends to invite to the wedding! I'm so embarrassed about what my partner's parents and friends will think! I've told him that I'd love to just elope or just make it immediate family but he is insisting on still having his friends there, which then makes me look and feel like billy no mates on my wedding day.

So that's filling me with dread to the point where I'm wondering if I should not get married at all to save the awful feeling of shame and embarrasment on what should be the happiest day of my life. It was going around in my head this morning when I spotted your post! We should set up a mutually supportive group for people who are crap at making friends! ;) If only something like that existed.

I've also seriously wondered if I'm on the spectrum because of my inability (or plain bad luck) at making friends but it turns out I'm not. I have a lot of empathy, I'm warm, kind hearted, fun (when given a chance), interesting. So generally stumped at why I'm in this boat. But I suppose that's just how it is for some people.

Anyway, sending out hugs to you! :)

Op there is nothing wrong with you and torment you neither.

You are functioning at a higher level than the people you have so far come into contact with - the ones who are materialistically and egotistically programmed.

The non verbal instincts you pick up on - I get this too - I have been told so many times "you see things that are not there" by friends, by family by X of 20 years, by my DS. I have also suffered with MH issues for most of my life and had "difficult" work situations.

I tried to work out what was "wrong" with me when my marriage fell apart and the person I had trusted and confided in the most, who I thought was my best friend, cheated on me and discarded me like some old toy that he never really cared for at all.

It wasn't me that was "wrong" - I hadn't yet found the "right" people. I somehow ended up here and I'll link at the end. This may not be right for you either but have a look.

I used to think this was a load of old bollocks but have come to realise that they are the ones talking my language, they make sense. Since I have been down this route I have had deep connections with complete strangers that have meant more to me in a couple of seconds than years of "friendship" with some people. Coincidences ( which I know are not coincidences but some people don't get this) have happened to me that I can only describe as "freaky".

There is "stuff" going on out there all the time - messages are everywhere if you know how to read them - I didn't for a long time but I am learning to now. I'll just give you one example - my Dd used to call me ' boozam' don't know why or where this came from - she had a "thing" for boobs and she was 10 at the time. I,vet had breast cancer - I was extremely lucky - it was caught very early on by a random screening! It also came just as my marriage broke down and gave me an insurance payout that "saved" me. Some people will say this is just coincidence - I believe it is more than this.

I hope this helps you - I know what it is like not to "fit in" but you are like an orange trying to be an apple - you need to find other oranges and then you will know who you are!

brahmakumaris.uk

I was v sceptical to start with - went along to their peace in the park event and not looked back - wish I knew about this 20 years ago when I had severe MH issues.

meant to say meditation and mindfulness are very similar - helps stop the constant " noise" in our heads and helps us tune into ourselves - you are already doing this but you may not know it when you appreciate nature etc

Oh and for those of you who think you are on a spectrum watch this www.ted.com/playlists/171/the_most_popular_talks_of_all

Yes I was bullied, tormentil . Gosh I can relate to your post so much!

I also have a sense of being out of step with my peers and of having lived my early adulthood by my values and now being 'over-taken' by my peers who are now more materially established than I am and are suddenly making big and noisy discoveries about the things that I have been doing and enjoying for years - but have ignored my enthusiasm for for the past 25 years! I'm 52.

Yes! Except in early 30s so generation Y/almost millenial. So I absorbed the "live your dreams" "money doesn't = happiness" stuff as a teen. I admired my best friends mum in school, they were poor but always had a spare space at the dinner table, style of thing. I wanted to be like that (they were religious but in the nicest possible way - really showed love for humanity and looked out for the oddballs. I didn't realise I would be an oddball...).

It's very strange - I felt I was searching for something in my teens/early 20s that I have now found... its like I now have inner peace but not outer peace, or something!

Whoops, massive x-posts there.

user I hear you, about the wedding I have wondered the same myself, were I to meet someone. I'm a bit concerend if your DP doesn't understand this? But hesitant to advise as what do I know...

Greenberet Since I have been down this route I have had deep connections with complete strangers that have meant more to me in a couple of seconds than years of "friendship" with some people.

Yes! I have found this particularly when backpacking... Also, one person sticks in my mind as he pretty much said stuff as posters here/myself feel, about not fitting in/having different values etc. I remember being astounded such a nice bloke hadn't found his crowd here in the UK (where he is from) but I understand now! He, and some others I've met who are similar, decided to stay and make their home in a different country, intriguingly countries that are less individualistic, and also amongst some westerners who also have those kind of values.

I'm scared I'm missing something and all the pieceing together of everything over the past few years is somehow "wrong" and I'm actually a terrible person.... because if people have a long run of issue with others, it's the person, right?

This jumped out at me. I think op you may have (like me, by the way) had shitty luck and been badly bullied at school, and then unconsciously gave off signals to people who are arseholes enough to take advantage or treat you badly. I think that you have been knocked for a loop one time too many, which is why you're spinning a bit trying to work out the 'why'. This is not your fault. You sound clever and interesting.

Honestly, sod the why. The why could help you understand, but you don't have the perspective right now to work it out, and anyway, it's not active steps to get you the life you should have. This may go against the grain of what may be advised by others, but if I were you (and I have been), I would make a solid gameplan to get the things you know will make you happy - sit down and think about what you really, really want in life, make a list, and then work backwards from steps you can take to get them.

So, currently you have no friends where you are, are not amazingly fulfilled by your job, am I right? Could you open up a map, and see where you could live that you might like? I'd suggest somewhere wit a liberal/permissive feel to it. Or what about near where your sibling lives? See what kinds of jobs are available. See what kind of accommodation is available. Make a plan.

If being who you've always been is shitty currently, then you can be someone else for a while while you re-calibrate - consciously make an attempt to act like no-one has ever been an arsehole to you in the ways you've detailed here. It's shit behaviour, you don't need to give that brain space. If you find one of those ruminations / bad memories replaying, try to ignore it, consciously try to expel it - no brain space! Notice how confident people don't internalise other people's shit if - someone gets drunk and acts shitty toward them, it's the drunk being a twat, and nothing to do with them - how could it be? They're fantastic! (I'm being tongue in cheek here but you see where I'm going with it.)

You are having a shit time at the moment, my sympathies. But do not try to work out the why from where you are, it's too close and you're not in the right mindset.

You do sound depressed - there's a lot of depression thinking in your post, and depression lies to you and tells you it's all your fault, and hopeless. Are you currently on any medication? I would go to your GP if you haven't already. I don't mean antidepressants as a sticking plaster to fix everything, but they can be a useful aid - a guide rope to climb out of the hole, iyswim. Something to think about?

radishal Thank you so much for replying to this thread, and being kind and on the other thread. I feel like i'm rejecting your contribution and Im not! The fact that you bothered and are kind is the main thing. I just feel frustrated with mental health related things because I feel like I've learnt so much about myself, and how to manage things, but don't seem to have or understand the bits that others take for granted. And the former is what most advice tends to be aimed at.

You're welcome, StHeathens (cool username btw).
I don't feel you're rejecting my contribution - you're at liberty to, of course! I'm really glad you've had some constructive and empathetic responses on here.

Sorry, Panda, missed your post. Thanks.

I'm not sure about moving right now - although I'm pretty sure it's going to happen at some point. I can't live near family as it's £££. I have relocated twice as an adult to try to find "my crowd" but others don't stay put for long/it's the out of sync thing again. I know quite a lot of people scattered over the world!
I'm actually not working due to mental health issues, so relying on benefits which makes moving harder - I've got an okish cheap place now which is a rarity nowadays.

I have similar experiences to many on this thread. The only way forward with most people that I know is to pretend. Pretend to be a 'normie', listen, nod, smile. Strangely at the end of those type of encounters I generally feel better.
I have a regular 'date' with a group of women who I like and respect but who I know have very different experiences to me. I go out with them to experience being 'normal' and to have a break from the stuff in my own head. I have realised that my relationship with them is superficial because of my own MH difficulties and experiences, but that is OK.
I'm 52 and haven't found my tribe yet. Still optimistic though that I can make connections however short lived.
I am also attracted to solitude and sometimes think that maybe my nature is solitary but social norms have (almost) convinced me that I should have a 'Friends/30 Something' lifestyle.

Iris ... social norms have (almost) convinced me that I should have a 'Friends/30 Something' lifestyle.

It's odd how this is the social norm when in reality people are more likely to move around and not have a tight-knit group nowadays. I wonder if it's sort of presented in an idealised way precisely for this reason?

I relate to a great deal of what you, and others, are posting op.

I'm getting on a bit (ish) and this is what I've found: when I look outward for validation I'm on a losing wicket. Yy I get it we all have social needs! But 'society' can be enormously flakey and reactive, devoid of any discernible integrity - crowd mentality..

Yet there we are being a good and decent person. The 'crowd' wants to have fun - hence embracing the fuckup jerk precisely bcs the fuckup jerk is FUN and, crucially, doesn't hold up a mirror (plus it's appealing to said crowd to spend time with fun/jerk people to compare: I'm not as bad as that!).

Tired now and hope I'm making sense. A pp makes a good point about a spiritual anchor - I have a faith and, while I don't particularly get on with others in said faith, it's all good between me and the Boss!

If, like me, you were routinely bullied by your family is a lifetime's work to recalibrate I've got to the point that the 'crowd' is so fickle, with endless variables that are impossible to follow, I've given up trying to please and have discovered I'm the friend I've been looking for all this time.

You, and I, may not have the Friends lifestyle (how realistic is that anyway?) but you mention you have a very good and solid base with your sister. That's a big deal! Not everyone has that. You may be looking out, searching the horizon, when what you have, the good stuff, is right under your nose.

Btw I've also had some shockingly bad experiences re your friend who called the police! SO bad they beggar belief. Try to, visualise, cutting the rope between you and that hideous experience, let that boat bob off down the river without you. It doesn't belong to you xx

I feel for you, I really do.

I went from being the most popular girl in junior school, to an outcast and a weirdo at senior school. After a few years of having fair weather friends, I started travelling as well.

Unfortunately, everyone else (your younger sibling a good case) was putting down roots and making friendships that stick. I will never regret my time spent away, but I definitely missed out on what you are talking about. I even remember being in a gym, seeing two girls chatting in the sauna and feeling that gut-wrench of envy and loneliness. I wanted a friend like that so bad. Walking past a table outside a pub, a group of friends, and really wanting a friendship group instead of crippling loneliness.

Also had issues with the marriage thing - how could I get married with no friends to attend my wedding!

This changed when I moved to the other side of the world. My marriage broke up, I left my husband and found myself living in this city with no friends. I used it as an opportunity to start again. I volunteered, joined all sorts of groups and meetups, and eventually found my way after many false starts. My dad used to say about getting a job - it won't come and knock on your door. And I feel the same about friends - they won't happen while you're in your bedroom with the cat watching Americas Next top Model .

It's taken a couple of years, but I found myself in a car of girls at the weekend singing along to 80s music and having a blast. I have got good at working out who is genuine and kind, who is just shy and who is to be avoided. These things take practice and time.

I'm 42 this year. All the things I felt I missed out on, I no longer feel I'm missing out. And its great too when making new friends to be able to say that you were in Laos for 5 months or lived in Turkey or what have you. You no doubt have many interesting stories. And there will be people who will want to listen.

Trust me on this!

But you need to be brave. Baby steps. Join a class, the WI, anything. Just one. And then you'll start to do more and more and realise that you're on the way to starting a new awesome life for yourself.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure that my lovely group of friends will all leave this city at some point - its very transient. But now I know I can make new ones.

I think we are all a bit weird in different ways - even the most mainstream most normal people. Practicing acceptance of others differences and forgiveness is the key to peacefulness internally.

High functioning autism also crossed my mind. It's very different for women though.

I would suggest looking on life's fringes. So ask charity shops if they need regular volunteers?

It takes time to make real friends. You've got to be prepared to kiss a few frogs first!

OP, I'm not a lot better off than you but I think when you've experienced trauma as a child (which I did: emotionally abusive/neglectful parents) you can't learn from it the way you can with other experiences. Instead you get stuck in it and have flashbacks when similar situations recur, so you react in the same way and it becomes a vicious circle.

There's a famous therapist who's written about it: Bessel van der Kolk's The Body Keeps the Score. And Pete Weller is good on complex PTSD too, google them.

I've tried to set it aside and just get on with making friends but I don't think you can unless that kind of deep hurt is cleared up. And you can't just think your way out of it or understand it, it's not a matter of reasoning.

Sorry I don't have any answers. I hope you find peace.

I'm sorry to hear you feel like this.

You mention you like travelling and are a bit 'weird'. There's nothing wrong with that. I've got a similar friend and I envy that she can go off to far flung places. Maybe you need to accept that you are taking a different route in life rather than the house, car, mortgage, and don't try and compare your life with theirs. Hopefully, by doing this, you will gather a nicer set of friends.

Good luck for the future.

So many of these posts are pointing the root of the problem to issues with parents and the family in childhood which is really interesting. I have so many problems connecting on a deep level with people (past acquaintances or enough to get invited to anyone's birthday bashes etc) and my early childhood and family relationships were also pretty atrocious - parents constantly arguing in front of us, police being called, being hit with sticks if we didn't finish dinner, older sister going off the rails and trying to beat up me and the other sister (and as an adult turning relatives against us by telling them we had a life of luxury while she was abused), and then at 14 everyone just moved out, including both parents and I was left to fend for myself while being bullied at school. I would literally go for days without talking to anyone.

Although it sounds much more dramatic when written down, I haven't really realised that this could have effected my inability to make friends today, other than the fact that I was socially underdeveloped by the time I went to university and completely unable to have a conversation as I literally hadn't spoken properly to anyone for years. That delay meant it was difficult for me to catch up socially, although I did work really hard on this in my early 20s and by now in my 30s I think I have mostly caught up and can at least appear pretty normal.

But I can totally relate that maybe people like us put barriers up and aren't really able to trust people even if it's not consciously done... I'm always wondering what the other person is really thinking about me and backing off for their sake if I think they could be having more fun with other people or have more interesting friends they would rather spend time with. So for me at least, I probably bring this on myself.

Being deeply sunk in this issue myself, I have thought about it a lot. As you say, we know the theory - but can't get it to work in practice. It's as though there is a bit of the theory missing, or something that we personally are lacking.

I live in a small neighbourhood, in a very isolated and remote community. Any form of social exclusion is deeply felt. My children are grown and I live in my own. Last week, there was a hen party in my neighbours house. The bride to be is my GP and my neighbour. I wasn't asked - I've no idea why, except that the party host routinely excludes me. One reason it is upsetting is that it has a knock on effect - and I'm rarely included in other social invitations either.

I spent most of the last counselling session crying about this and saying very much what you are saying OP - why, I don't understand why I'm excluded. It's very painful. And I wouldn't do it to anyone.

I do have some thoughts. I can look around at the social groupings in this small and very remote community and see that the people who have the hardest time socially are predominantly people with 'inclusive' programming and who are reasonably happy to do things on their own. Inclusive as in if they had a party, they would include everyone.

The most socially dominant seem to be a mixture of people with 'exclusive' programming, social climbers and people who can't be by themselves. Exclusive, as in they align themselves with a group for either social acceptance or social safety.

I also like and agree with Springydaffs observation that careless and inconsiderate people are tolerated because they are more fun.

I've had conversations about this with various people - the most frequent bit of advice is 'try harder' - but, like you, I'm almost burned out trying and it has become too painful. I know I have the mark of an outcast and, other than moving away, there is little I can do to change it. And I can't afford to move.

Ironically, this community prides itself on 'being supportive and close-knit'. This messes with my head rather a lot.