What are your boundaries/red lines for dating?

[Girlywurly]

I'm thinking about this today, because yesterday I had to cancel an otherwise promising first date because the guy had still not confirmed details of where/when we were meeting by lunchtime on the day of the date, due to having lots of unscheduled business meetings.

I feel that this is very disrespectful of me, my time, and my work and parenting responsibilities. I'm not going to get all dressed up and sit waiting for my phone to buzz, especially when I've got a babysitter in who I've had to pay for.

The guy in question seemed quite surprised and uncomprehending when I messaged him to say I don't do last minute meets and suggest we were not compatible in this regard.

Got me thinking how everything has different notions of what's acceptable.

So what are your boundaries/red lines for dating?

It's interesting to observe your view of men, girlywurly.

Don't get me started, Harry! I could write screeds on the topic of men, which is pretty much my obsession. (I work academia, in the humanities and so have waaaay too much license to indulge my idle speculations... ). Fiction or otherwise, the masculine spirit both fascinates and repels me. And then there's my rampant heterosexuality to add into the mix (bloody love cock me ).

Bant comments on my 'form' with men, while knowing nothing about it. I am 34 and have had two largely happy long term relationships with absolutely lovely men, both of whom remain good friends. Good relationships with my father and brother. My closest and longest friendship is with a heterosexual male. I'm now enjoying a series of short-term sex-based flings because it suits me right now and I enjoy it. I get on with these men, enjoy their company and we tend to part on good terms.

I don't feel my attitude to men is causing either me or my partners any problems, tbh.

And it does amuse me that every woman who goes on a date and is willing to pay their way, makes your task of hitching a free ride more and more difficult.

It's never been an issue, Harry. Really, I don't mean to sound arrogant but I can't recall a time theyve not wanted a second date. It's not as though I'm a centrefold or anything (I'm definitely not), but the men I go for seem pretty happy to spend time with me.

OP I'm not surprised they're happy to pay and are keen for a second date. "Short-term sex-based flings" are something men have happily paid for for centuries !

Yes, but if everyone's on the same page and getting satisfaction, what's the problem?

I don't understand the censorious attitudes and the anger on this thread.

I didn't comment on your form with men, girly, I asked about it, because I was genuinely interested if your former relationships have led to financial or emotional abuse.

Would you continue to see a man if he suddenly found out that he didn't have enough money to treat you all the time? Or would that make him less attractive?

People lose their tiny minds when a woman says she expects a man to pay for their dates.

Some men like to pay for dates, some women like men to pay for dates. If these two individuals meet up and both are happy with that, why on earth would that bother anyone else?

It's never been an issue, Harry. Really, I don't mean to sound arrogant but I can't recall a time theyve not wanted a second date. It's not as though I'm a centrefold or anything (I'm definitely not), but the men I go for seem pretty happy to spend time with me

Yeah, thinking about it, you're right. I worked in the City for 10 years and there was no shortage of men that you seem to go for. Generally, they had good hearts but the over-riding factors in their personalities was either the narcissism or the insecurities (or often both) that would deem they would go to the flashest restaurants/bars while also insisting on paying.

So, given this, I think go for it. They are idiots and you should milk them for as much as you can! I never did find them particularly good company, though, saying that.

What a bonkers thread! Mainly because some people seem to be hell-bent on arguing that the OP's primary motive in life is to get men to pay for EVERYTHING. In actual fact, she has not said this at all

Like many women, she simply prefers the type of man who takes the lead in the early stages and perhaps going forward - in CERTAIN AREAS - not life in general! It actually has very little to do with money, it's an attitude. It's definitely not about men disrespecting women or women having no self-respect. Quite the opposite in fact.

Obviously some men (and women) don't get this and want to tie themselves in knots about their notions of "equality", but that's fine too. Each to their own.

Bant and that type of man focus on the dinner, as though the dinner were the entire point. women aren't starving and don't need to go 'escort' for a free dinner.

The type of man I seem to date wants to pay for dinner. Like me, they're fairly good at reading the opposite sex. And they know they won't be taken advantage of because they know it's not about the dinner. I wouldn't be comfortable allowing anybody I did not want to see again to pay for my dinner (whether it was first second or third dinner) and interestingly a male friend said to me that when a woman slams down her card at the end of a meal and insists on paying half he knows he's toast! I said not necessarily you should read the comments on mumsnet!

I ended up spending so much time and money and effort cooking meals at home after the last man I dated took me out for the first five or six dinners then seemed to want to come to my house all the time because of x, y z.... blah blah blah, now I'm wise to that stunt. I'm not spending half a day making some guy dinner twice a week when I could just ''slam my card down''.

I'm not being censorious. OP you asked for opinions, and you're getting them.

And I think it's been said upthread, it may be an uncomfortable truth for some men of a certain mindset about women, i'm not unusual, I don't have an above average level of integrity but I have never endured a dinner with a man whose company I did not enjoy without insisting on paying half. I have never endured a dull/offensive man's company a second time around for a free dinner this is a nonsense. A paranoia. Where are all these hungry women.

Of course when we're paid exactly the same for doing the same thing and when we're not left paying babysitters when we go out because the fathers don't have the same childcare responsibilities then it will be easier to just ''slam the card in the middle of the table''.

I dated a man a while back who insisted on paying for everything because he understood that he was paid more, understood I'd had to pay a babysitter to go out with him and understood that he made a lot less effort with his appearance!

brog - I'm focusing on the dinner because it's a thread about dating boundaries. I think your approach makes sense, but the OP said upthread that she expects the man to always'pay, to be financially dominant all the time.

I'm just wondering whether people like this - either women who expect the man to always pay, or men who expect to always pay, end up in very imbalanced relationships.

Brog - love your post. And I've also never met a woman as hungry as you've described!!

Minty and Bant: I didn't ask for opinions on the issue of who pays. A remark I made in one of my earlier posts was questioned and then subsequently I've been put on trial as an 'escort'.

Don't mind engaging at all though. It's been an interesting (if slightly weird) thread that's revealed some (ahem), shall we say 'diverse' attitudes to women's sexuality!!

You seem to have enjoyed being 'put on trial', girlywurly. You've been a willing defendant to say the least!

Oooh, sounds a bit kinky Harry?!

Seriously, what was the correct response? Should I have been hanging my head in shame??

I'm not putting you on trial, girly - I was asking if your need to have a man arrange and pay for everything in order for you to find them attractive was possibly a bad boundary to set while dating. In your post about setting boundaries on dating.

Bant - when I met my husband, he generally expected to pay for most things. Of course I always offered and I offset it by booking things ahead / paying online etc.

I have never met a woman in my life who would actually give a hoot about a free dinner If I was on a date and realised I didn't want to see the man again, I would insist on paying my way and feel uncomfortable otherwise.

DH was a significantly higher earner than me when we met, but genuinely this had nothing to do with my attraction towards him. I was only in my twenties and too young to be that cynical. I appreciated the way he treated me. He never expected me to go out of my way to meet him. He used to pick me up and make sure I got home safely. He was and is a gentleman which is a very attractive quality imo.

12 years later, we have 3 children. We don't have the MN brand of 50/50 relationship where we both work and then obsess that all housework and childcare is divided equally. I've been a SAHM which has suited me. We have joint finances and it's a partnership that works - for him, for me and the DC.

You are either attracted to someone or you're not. As if anyone would bother about a free dinner! You have a very narrow-minded view if women if you think this is the case and you are missing the point entirely.

Absolutely Gurly, you've been put on trial and you've been a very charming and engaging defendant. You clearly sing sweetly for your supper

That's my treat :-p

Thank you, Brog!! I appreciate that. I'd offer you an equivalent measure of sexual depravity in return for the wine, but feel that might undermine my arguments somewhat...!?

Think I might bow out now. Everything's probably been said by this time and we're starting to circle a bit.

Thanks everyone!!

Bant, I think a certain type of man (general statement here, not personalising it honestly) can worry about this too occurring too much. In my experience men who have damaged self-esteem and who believe deep down that their best selling point is (relative) wealth are on an unnecessary hyper alert for this type of 'behaviour'' as they interpret it.

Bone fide genuine alpha males (be they 35 and 6'2" or 53 and 5'7") if they know that their best attribute is their personality and if they're kind, moral, honest then they don't, ime, seem to be on hyper alert for being ''taken advantage of''. They just relax and trust that like attracts like. Which it does it think. Although it hasn't worked out with the last few men I've dated they've all been generous and positive and all looked for the best in people.

Don't rush me gurly. I just wanted the pleasure of your company!