Am I mad to end my marriage because he won't put the bins out?

[toastandjamplease]

Hi all,

Namechanged to protect the innocent! Apologies that I think this will be a long one but don’t want to dripfeed! I have been married just over 20 years. We have 3 DCs, all high-school age. We both work FT, although my husband works much longer hours than me with lots of travel. My OH does most of the taxi-ing on weekends, taking kids to football on Saturday mornings etc. He also cooks on the weekend and takes care of everything IT-related. We have a cleaner who keeps the house just about under control.

However, everything else is done by me. That is, all the school runs, after school activities, laundry, shopping, most of the cooking, DIY, day-to-day tidying etc. I have always done more than him but things have fallen even more on me as his job has involved more and more travel. He is supposed to do the laundry when he is here but does maybe 1 load in 10 and only when I ask him to put the wash on.

We recently moved house, which has brought things to a head. It is not massive but has a large garden and it quite remote. It was very much my choice and I cannot tell you how much I love where we live now. But it is too much for me to do all the above single-handed. I have told my husband (repeatedly) that I cannot do this any more. I work 40 hours a week on top of doing pretty much everything around the house and garden and I am exhausted. More than anything, it is not just the practical side of this but the emotional. That is, I feel like though I am constantly looking out for everyone yet there is never anyone there to look out for me. If I forget to do something, it just won't get done.

At Christmas, I told him that I couldn't do this anymore and unless he started showing a bit more support then I would be asking for a divorce. I gave him a couple of very clear examples of what I mean. First, he has never changed the beds in 20 years of marriage. I told him that makes me feel like he takes it for granted it’s my job and is demeaning. Second, in the 3 years we have lived here, he has never put the rubbish out – it seems like even the laziest husbands talked about on here “do the bins” and he won’t even do that. Last week, I forgot to put the bins out so (of course) the rubbish didn't get collected. I am so sick of being in charge of practically bloody everything. At Christmas, I told him that these things are like little snapshots of how everything is left to me. In effect I was giving him a couple of very simple things he could do to show that he was listening to me. But, since then, he hasn’t taken the rubbish out once or changed a sheet.

My husband works very hard, he earns a lot more than I do, and he is a very generous person. We bought this house because it was what I wanted, it is not his thing at all but he wanted me to be happy. He is brilliant in a crisis. We agree almost entirely on priorities re. the children and I would say that he is a great father, but I know that part of being a great parent is setting a good example to your children and I think we are both setting a poor example – him by being lazy around the house and me by being a martyr about all things domestic!

Given how I have laid out my stall, I feel like he is giving me no choice but to tell him this is over. But it feels like such a drastic step. In particular, it will mean selling the house and probably moving much closer to the kids’ school. The kids will be fine with the move (I think) as they will be nearer friends etc. but will be heartbroken about us splitting up. In practice, he spends half the year away anyway so I’m hoping in practical terms I can keep things on an even keel for them. I feel so awful about the whole thing but it’s like he’s given me no choice - I have told him how I feel and he has demonstrated time and again that he will not value what I do around the place or help in any of the ways I have asked him to. Since we moved house, the argument has almost moved beyond what is fair to what is possible – I just cannot do it anymore.

So, I guess I am looking for reassurance on a few things. I am terrified we’ll all end up worse off in every way and it will all be my fault as I’ve allowed this situation to develop but am suddenly saying no more! The questions I keep turning over in my head are these:

• Am I being reasonable to divorce my husband because he won’t put the bins out (and take on other things around the house)?
• Will the kids understand why these things are such a big deal or will they blame me?
• Will I get over selling this lovely house to move somewhere cheaper and more practical? I can hardly bear to think about it but it will have to be done.

Any thoughts would be welcome. I haven’t spoken to a soul about this is RL and am terrified of what I think I’m about to do... Thank you!

OP can you stop being so bloody reasonable. This is mn and you're supposed to throw a strop and claim there's bullying

You sound like a sane woman who's been driven to desperate measures. I hope you manage to find a way through

toast, I totally identify with your post. I had a very similar situation. In the end we decided to live apart but still be married. Done this for nearly two years and it works for us. For me it was not emptying dishwasher not the bins but same effect.

you definitely sound v reasonable for mumsnet. i'm sure you think i'm very harsh but i do find it a bit telling that even now you wont' just state what your DH has actually said at any point, even when you told him you were divorcing him.

anyway, good luck on sorting this out. I'm guessing your kids would rather do housework than have divorced parents so that should probably weigh in re how much you ask them to do.

Out of genuine curiosity Apple, do you think that rather than expecting her DH to step up and do his share of the housework, the OP should just leave him alone and get the children to do the housework instead?

OP you sound lovely! I hope you sort this out.

I second the suggestion of agreeing on a split of specific tasks, and NOT stepping in to pick up the slack if he forgets his, rather than to expect him to suddenly think of putting out the bins one week when he never normally does it.

Out of genuine curiosity Apple, do you think that rather than expecting her DH to step up and do his share of the housework, the OP should just leave him alone and get the children to do the housework instead?

100% NO! But then I don't think the problem with her marriage is just that her DH won't do the bins. I think there are tons of problems in her marriage being masked by this one issue. I think the solution is to take seriously the fact that her marriage is broken and treat it like a problem for everyone in the home. Not just her. Her DH, her kids too.

Everyone sounds unhappy and exhausted and everything needs to change but that requires real honesty from all parties, not just martyrdom from one and avoidance from the other. That's why I kept asking what her DH thought about all of these things. She seems to be dodging these questions specifically.

So my attitude is that if she's not going to really engage with this honestly, go to counselling, really open up to the idea that both her AND her DH are at fault in building this marriage, then she might as well just get the kids to do the bins.

Senua, I can assure you I'm not remotely interested in housework either. The difference is that sooner or later someone has to change the sheets or empty the bins or find a clean plate.

I really genuinely do not understand this 'poor man, he's perfectly ok with doing nothing, how DARE you suggest he puts a wash on, make your teenagers do it and go to counselling to work out why his failure to do anything is so upsetting, it's all your fault anyway' perspective.

Apple, she has said very specifically to her husband what she needs and he has done literally nothing. What else can she do? She can't physically force him to engage.

I fucking hate housework.

I would quite like to know what the husbands response is too. If it is just to ignore the issue then that's really disrespectful. If my partner was that at the end of their tether with the amount I did around the house that they were ready to pack a bag, I would take it seriously.

The fact is that somebody has to change the bedclothes and empty the bins. The OP has done it for 20 years and has asked her husband to do it instead. And he just hasn't. He won't, for whatever reason, do a job that needs doing for the benefit of both of them. So the OP is totally stuck. Either she sleeps in a filthy bed and watches rubbish pile up or she accepts that her husband will not engage with her and she does it herself. Neither one is a great option for her, is it?

but sparrowhawk, she says he's done nothing but what has he said?

and her "needs" included this home that supposedly clash with her other needs, to reduce domestic tasks. i agree with an earlier poster that i would really love to hear his side of this story. because her story jumped to divorce really quickly and she is now suddenly almost backtracking by saying "oh, i'll get the kids to do it".

let's be clear, she can get divorced any time she likes for any reason. and she's getting plenty of support for it on this thread so it's hardly like she's being shouted down. we can't know all the details - either of us - but i personally have a suspicion that the OP has a very specific idea of her ideal life in her mind and that this image, not her actual needs OR her husband's needs, are what is actually driving the boat. maybe that's one of the reasons he is resisting.

'and her "needs" included this home that supposedly clash with her other needs, to reduce domestic tasks'

I'm really not sure why you're going about this. The OP has already stated that it's not a particularly big house - she hasn't suggested that this house has increased her tasks. She's talking about bins and beds, things that the size of the house don't affect.

Is it really so unreasonable to consider divorcing someone who doesn't do anything around the house and doesn't listen when you point out how unfair and exhausting this is? And is quite happy to get up late and leave all the domestic stuff to you and watch telly while you sort out housework?

I mean, it makes perfect sense to me.

Her point is not that she's moved to this house and she now expects more input from her husband around housework, it's that for the entirety of their relationship, regardless of the house they've lived in, the OP has done these tasks. She wants her husband to share the tasks and he just won't.

i personally have a suspicion that the OP has a specific idea of her ideal life in her mind and that this image, not her actual needs OR her husband's needs, are what is actually driving the boat

Well I have the impression that you have a specific idea in your mind about the OP and her life that is nothing to do with what she's actually written.

Tatiana has it.

Why aren't your children being made to do their fair share? They are certainly old enough. My 2 teens have to do dishes, clean their rooms, deal with the animals and the trash, and so their own laundry. Kids NEED to be taught to care for themselves.

Loving the fact that teenagers who do more than their father are 'lazy as fuck' whilst he is hard done by.

Where do people get the idea he is working significantly more hours? If his working day is lazing in bed then working 12-9 at home that is 9 hours with no commute. OP is doing 9-5 - 8 hours plus commute. Plus all the household management, child management, household stuff except for a couple of pitiful self selected tasks.

You should measure how much leisure time each has and make it even.

Have we had a coach party from Stepford join this thread since last night??

I know. It's doing my head in. At least it's a while since the last helpful suggestion she go part-time to do her husband's share of the housework.

Perhaps this would work:

1. Sit down and write down all the tasks you do every week

1. Take a long hard look and think about whether any of those are "nice to haves" or could be moved to a bi-weekly or monthly basis

1. Think about whether any of it could be made more efficient - e.g. internet food shopping rather than going to supermarket, hiring handyman, using ironing service or upping cleaner hours or prepping food on weekend so mealtimes during week are quicker/easier.

1. Sit down with the trimmed down list and allocate between your family members. If they don't do their allocated task - DON'T DO IT FOR THEM. Point to list and tell them to get on with it - if they don't do it the way you would, think about whether what they do is good enough. If DH is away lots, think about whether there are admin tasks he could do to free up your time which don't require him being present (e.g. household accounts, dealing with bills, etc).

I'm really not sure why you're going about this. The OP has already stated that it's not a particularly big house - she hasn't suggested that this house has increased her tasks. She's talking about bins and beds, things that the size of the house don't affect.

the op stated herself that before this house it was just about manageable and now they are in the new house, it's unmanageable. that is what she said she disagrees that the new house is big but she had never disagreed that it increased their workload.

you can call me a stepford wife as much as you like but it doesn't change the fact that people look at the same facts you look at and see slightly different things. Am i stopping you all from suggesting a divorce? No, cos i don't care. I'm not trying to argue you down; we're offering differing perspectives for the OP.

I see an OP who has so far only stated one side of every conversation and has described absolutely nothing of her DH, his personality or their relationship besides the transactional. that's interesting to me combined with the choices made over the home and the children. I'm pointing it out to the OP that there may be something more going on.

Just to clarify I never called you a stepford wife.

In my mind, the tasks need to be done and no matter whether there's 'something more going on, ' the fact is that the OP has asked her partner to do his fair share and he won't. I don't think any adult is justified in sitting back and ignoring their partner when they ask for a totally reasonable thing like changing the bed clothes once in 20 years.