Ca you cheat on somebody and still love them?

[Latenightthoughts]

Following on from a dinner I've just had with a male friend(purely platonic our mums have been best friends since we were born he's like a gross older brother to me) and DP was with us, this isn't some segue into hidden feelings.

He thinks yes. I'm not sure. Especially if you're talking more than once. He thinks that's too black and white and it's perfectly possible to love one person whilst having sex with another.
I left my ex DH as he had an affair. At the time people said I was being too cut and dried but I stand by my decision. I do sometimes wonder if I was being too simplistic though.

Think I've said too much. Might need to change my name now ...

Can you cheat on somebody and still love them?

Short answer. YES.

But how? Surely if you love someone you would never hurt them like that.

This is the thing; sex CAN 'just happen'. It can be an irrational moment where one loses sense of their moral compass, where they are, what they are doing. And this is why often, this situation can be instigated from inebriation.

This has happened to me twice. And it has happened when I have been so drunk I cannot even remember what I'm saying. It has happened because I am a very sexual person and have lost sight of the bigger picture when the alcohol has completely clouded my mind.

This does not mean I do not love my partner. I love her very much. And the irony is from each time this has happened, I find that I love her even more.

The latest time I realised - I love her so much, I will no longer put myself in these situations. I will no longer drink so much. And I will keep my head down. And that is what I have done.

If you CONTINUALLY cheat then you do not love her.

If you make your mistake, and learn and do something about it, then surely this is a sign of your love for your partner and how you want to address your faults?

People have different opinions - personally I believe no one is perfect, and love isn't a medium where there is only ever one outcome. Love is a journey which isn't always smooth sailing. Only if your love is strong enough, will that journey continue.

And if you're strong enough - analyse what you've done and why - and change things so you don't do it. You are. Hats off. That's how it should be.

'I am a very sexual person' is the lamest excuse ever. And getting so drunk that you don't know what your doing is a choice. But no, cheating doesn't mean you don't love someone, it just means you're either not a nice person or you're weak. Or both.

Yes Eolian, it is a lame excuse. But one nonetheless.

And you are right - it means you're weak. And I was weak. And to some extent I still am, I am trying and avoiding situations where I can potentially stray works for me. And I drink less too. I am now a father. And I will do everything I can to be the best dad and partner I can be.

I think rehabilitation and self-improvement should be applauded. I think you're being honest all round. And with yourself. Good. Do it.

jobanana , if that's true and there's no contextual explanation, then she's clearly a loony, but your husband still chose her and chose to cheat with her.

AS Terry Pratchett said, anyone who claims to be a witch/ psychic means 'I wear black nail varnish and have a limited but vivid imagination'.

PYorick - sorry but slightly upset by the 'if that's true'. I am literally allergic to any form of lying, after all this. Yes, it is true.

She thought ghosts were attacking her in the night, etc. Well, I don't think she did - she just made up elaborate tales about it to garner sympathy. Her MO is to present herself as a victim. DP and I used to laugh about how bizarre she was, and how mad. Make jokes about her. She was terribly cross about that. And then she started using scraps of information from conversations with me, and twisting them (or just downright changing them) to work on undermining his trust in me. Eg, telling him my son didn't get a student loan. (FFS, even Prince William got one ...) He isn't English, so he felt vulnerable - he had trusted me completely, and she was plausible, and played on his insecurities.

This was far, far more than sexual infidelity. She laughed at our relationship. She shamed him. She told him it was wrong that he depended on me for certain things. (Erm, isn't that a relationship? I also depended on him ...).

Of course, of course he should have just said 'stop trying to undermine my life' and never spoken to him again - but you should have seen the sort of clothes she was wearing and how she was behaving. It was her life's work, that seduction. She had nothing else to do. She threw her all into it. Of course he is an idiot but this wasn't a case of they met, fell in love, tried to resist breaking up two families but had to be true to themselves - no. This was much more sinister, and she'd been planning something along those lines for years, it turned out.

Please let's stop talking about her - she is mad as a hatter, however plausible. It is an unusual case, I think. Almost incredible, if anyone were to hear all the details. Unfortunately I could relate them all. But won't.

Moving on, swiftly ... : )

I'm sorry to have upset you. I didn't mean to imply that you were lying, rather that we all have only our own perceptions of events and we can't always have full 360 degree vision and objective perfect truth, however hard we try.

But I'm still disturbed that you continue to downplay your husband's responsibility by focusing on her nuttiness and sexual availability (from which he could have removed himself but chose not to). And while I realise you are suffering, your criticism of how she dressed, making him less culpable because of it, is really unacceptable.

Unless she actually lassoed the guy into her lair, she did not force him to do anything and you must accept he is as fully responsible as she is. I once dressed up as Jessica Rabbit and stayed in character all evening. I got attention, sure, but the men all managed to control themselves.

'but you should have seen the sort of clothes she was wearing'

Oh please!!! You are trying to make ordinary tawdry rather pathetic adultery into a cross between The Witch & Jolene. Your husband was only played by appeals to his ego, and a nice pair of tits. Nothing more than most men have had thrust at them and managed to resist.

Ok, thanks for your opinion. It's again my fault, as haven't given full details, but can't anyhow. This thread isn't about me. It was about an issue. Please keep it to that.

But I do think it's sad that there isn't enough balance in many women's perspective that they can see good and bad on all sides. It isn't wrong to say a woman was predatory if she was. I'm not excusing the man who has been complicit, but honestly, I have me some lovely guys with families, and would never have dreamt even of looking at them, given their situations. A woman who completely ignores that situation, even uses it to her advantage, is, in my opinion, just bad.

But hey, that's my naive world. Laugh at it and trash it if you like, but I know what's ok, and what isn't. You guys didn't see what I saw. Sorry I can't fill you in. I kind of think if you had, you'd feel the same.

met not me

TBH, a whole other discussion could be how when guys get to know a woman has been betrayed, they come forward and proposition her. The number of propositions I got when this happened ... crikey. Bless them. Kind. But also wrong as all married. A whole world of liaisons was opened up to me. And I slipped gracefully out from each one. Leaving their egos intact. Quite a delicate feat, I can tell you.

I then started counting up the guys I knew had cheated, and actually could only come up with a couple - out of all the males, of all ages, that I know - who hadn't. Hmm.

I then considered joining a convent : )

Ok fine, but the man who ignored his commitment to you in preference to another woman fluttering her eyelashes is worse... in your world anyway... He has done worse to you... He isn't a victim of a predatory woman... he is just a bog standard boring cheater who on top of the cheating happened to welcome a complete nutter (who you both know to be a nutter) into your life...

Can't think for the life of me why on earth you both sat round her table knowing how nuts she was and then laughing at her at home...

WTF do you care about the egos of these predatory men either?

No. Love is respectful and kind. It is honest and committed. It is faithful and enduring.

This. To me an open relationship is an entirely different thing.

Cheating isn't just about sex it causes hurt and pain and is incredibly disrespectful. I don't believe that love is necessarily lost forever but no in the moment you cheat you cannot imo claim to love and cherish another.

Look, I just can't explain all the details. When we first met her she went on about being a witch and about the ghosts, and we thought she was joking. She appeared not to be, so we of course at home said what a loon.
We saw her every day through work. I didn't seek out cups of tea with her. They happened in the course of work. But then she also invited me to dinner, etc.
She is very charming and I liked her too. But felt slightly uneasy about her. Not least because she seemed a bit bonkers with the ghosts, etc.
I can't say more.

Apart from this: this thread is not about me. It's not about my personal life, why or otherwise my own partner got involved in whatever he did. It's supposed to be about an issue. Please, Offred, stop constantly repeating how it was entirely his fault and how I'm stupid not to see that. That so isn't what we're all talking about here.

And you don't understand about the egos of the men. Their advances were, to me, a compliment - nobody was offensive - quite the opposite. My point was that in the situation of someone offering to be unfaithful with me, and inviting me to be, I said no, because to me there was no question of any chance of any liaison, because for starters nobody was free. Quite apart from whether I would actually have wanted to.

The female that felt it was fine to do whatever she liked re: my partner was herself married. Her betrayal and lying to her own husband was extraordinary. It completely destroyed him. But, thankfully, he somehow kept going, for their kids. He's been exemplary. So there are some decent people around. Thank goodness.

It isn't wrong to say a woman was predatory if she was.

No, but it is wrong to imply that this makes the man less responsible for where he sticks his dick. He knew and agreed that she was nuts but she was still good enough to cheat with. A prince of a man led astray by a wicked temptress? It's nothing so interesting.

I could go on a sustained campaign to seduce a man, he's still able to refuse me at every step or, better yet, cut contact with me if I won't leave him alone.

I never said he was a prince of a man. He has low self-esteem, he feels disabled by his dyslexia, he has always been tormented and has awful mood swings, etc. He's emotionally unstable and incapable in many ways. Very immature. A complete idiot.

But he was my idiot and I loved him. Father to our beautiful daughter. And the person who I still sleep entwined with every night. So no, I don't see him as faultless - slightly edging here towards a bit of a quotation:

Mortal, guilty, but to me
The entirely beautiful.

omg I'll be accused again of having a literary bent here : D : (

jobanana

i believe you. they are rare, but consciously evil people do exist. I've met the handiwork of one and it's not something I will ever forget to the end of my days. Years long planning and execution of extreme cruelty by an individual intended to destroy the person I met.

you are a very strong woman.

Your partner is not a poor tortured soul. He is an abusive cheater.

Married men trying to have sex with you is not a compliment.

You have some very strange ideas about men and women.