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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

City girl dates rural boy - ethical issues bothering me, thoughts?

131 replies

Kefalonia1 · 23/01/2017 00:19

I have seeing my boyfriend for 4 months and have never dated a guy from a rural place before. He grew up on a farm so I feel is quite desensitised to the general killing of animals - he does eat a lot of meat and that's fine, as I'm not veggie but do like to balance things out with veggie meals which he says he is really open to.

Anyway, the issue. Up until now I have seen him as an animal lover - seen him interacting with animals on the farm, peoples pets etc. He gave me an Attenborough DVD to borrow and he gets quite gooey over the animals.

A few days ago he said something that shocked me - basically that foxes are 'vermin' citing chickens they steal from farms etc. I love foxes and grew up in a family that is fond of our urban foxes (I know this issue is not widely shared). Although he said he disagrees with the cruelty of fox hunting with dogs etc. Then we were talking about people who wear fur and he said it didn't really bother him/he hadn't thought about it much before. Well it bothered me because I would never wear fur and find it unethical to do so - electrocuting live animals and then slaying them alive anyone? Shock

In the end my boyfriend, who hates conflict (and I dislike it too until/if I feel passionately about something) said we should just 'avoid' the topic. But to me I feel he is condoning cruelty to animals? And in another way I am trying to see how his point of view might differ to mine because of his upbringing?

But yeah, I haven't introduced him to my family yet and if he said any of that stuff to them that would be it I think. I am meant to be having a nice dinner with him tomorrow but this is still really bothering me..what are your thoughts?

OP posts:
BreatheDeep · 23/01/2017 10:44

Ask him about badgers, OP...

CockacidalManiac · 23/01/2017 10:49

I think you're being very daft. Foxes are vermin. If he supported hunting with dogs, I'd see a problem. He doesn't, however.

user1478860582 · 23/01/2017 11:48

This thread is unbelievable. Many, many of the posters here sound like some sort rural clique. You need to get your heads out of your arses and realise that actually people who don't understand the countryside need education not being spoken down to like a child.

For fucks sake, as we move out of the EU farmers and associated businesses are going to need the support of politicians and the general public. Driving a wedge between country and town is really useful.

OP, good luck with your relationship. You'll be fine, just don't listen to these people.

GinIsIn · 23/01/2017 11:59

user you do know this is mumsnet, not the Coubtryside Alliance, right? Hmm.

It's hardly a rural clique when other posters have clearly stated they are ciry dwellers and still think the OP is daft. You don't need to live in the countryside to exercise a bit of common sense and critical thinking. Taking umbrage with people who don't think foxes are cute and cuddly whilst eating meat 3 times a week & wearing leather shoes is not a country/city thing, it's a stupidity thing.

CockacidalManiac · 23/01/2017 12:04

I tend to ignore posters with 'user' in them, much as I ignore the eggs on Twitter, but this talk of a rural clique is bollocks.

user1478860582 · 23/01/2017 12:12

I know perfectly well this isn't the CA. Cockacidal, you wouldn't like me anyway. After all, I marched to keep fox hunting.

CockacidalManiac · 23/01/2017 12:17

Cockacidal, you wouldn't like me anyway. After all, I marched to keep fox hunting.

You're right. I wouldn't.

ExplodedCloud · 23/01/2017 13:32

There are two other houses within 10 feet of where I'm sitting...

Toomuchginger · 23/01/2017 13:47

Oooo yes! Text your chap and ask him what he thinks of badgers. Perhaps refer to them as "Mister Bill Badgers" and post the reply!

Jaysis · 23/01/2017 14:00

Your thinking is a bit disjointed.

Surely you see that if all poultry farmers locked up their chickens to save them from the poor ickle fox, you'd have no free range eggs that you are so proud of ethically shopping for?

Wheredidallthejaffacakesgo · 23/01/2017 14:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HostaFireAndIce · 23/01/2017 14:56

actually people who don't understand the countryside need education not being spoken down to like a child.

But isn't that what the OP's boyfriend has tried to do? Explain why foxes are not just cute and cuddly and why he isn't such a big fan of them. The OP doesn't seem to be responding so well to the education he can provide.

CactusFred · 23/01/2017 15:14

I'm a vegan and I think you're overreacting a bit. He grew up on a farm. He sees things differently. If he's not being deliberately cruel to animals then I don't see the issue when you eat meat anyway and he's open to trying veggie food.

thestamp · 23/01/2017 18:11

So he thinks foxes are vermin because he grew up on a farm and has had to live close by with them... you are from the city and think foxes are cute and are SHOCKED OMG SHOCKED that someone disagrees with you.

look, if you think that's a dealbreaker, more power to you, but if you want to know what normal people would mostly think -- they would think that you probably should learn how to cope with other human beings having slightly different viewpoints to you when it comes to foxes. And similar almost completely inconsequential things.

You're not even disagreeing with his actions. You're literally wringing your hands over him thinking something. About a fox.

Allow me to present you with a grip.

SleepingTiger · 23/01/2017 18:54

I have a general rule.
Never eat animals that are carnivorous. Only eat animals that are herbivores.
It's healthier.
I think.

QuiltedAloeVera · 23/01/2017 20:50

You could fill in your knowledge gaps re: farming and the countryside by listening to your boyfriend.

Surreyblah · 23/01/2017 20:54

YABU, hypocritical, and why the worry about what your friends and family might think should he express his views?

I am a city person.

Butterfly2018 · 23/01/2017 21:24

Only read your first post OP, but as an ethical vegan (so may be somewhat biased) I couldn't go out with someone who thinks hunting is fine, and isn't repulsed by the idea of wearing fur...it smacks of low empathy and no compassion for other sentient beings which isn't an attractive trait but only you know what you can tolerate and what you won't x

KateDaniels2 · 24/01/2017 07:48

butterfly she isnt an ethical vegan. Or even a vegetarian.

I grew up in an inner city area. Its not that difficult to understsnd rural living. Especially if you are dating a farmer.

GinIsIn · 24/01/2017 08:25

Out of curiosity, what would constitute an unethical vegan? Follows the diet but loves a good pheasant shoot?! Grin

shovetheholly · 24/01/2017 08:31

I don't know about unethical - it's more non-ethical - but someone who follows veganism for health/weight loss/fashion isn't really doing it for moral reasons. (It's still a totally legitimate choice and it is still more ethical than most of our diets, mine included, though!).

Butterfly2018 · 24/01/2017 09:00

Ah I see, the problem here OP is that it might be difficult to argue what is unethical and what isn't unethical with your OH if you wear leather and eat meat, buy makeup tested on animals etc etc, as in my mind (but I'm biased) they are all unethical things to do. With that said, many of my friends (non vegan) would agree with me that wearing fur is cruel as well as hunting too...but in your case there is clearly something about his "attitudes" that niggles you hence why you posted. Only you know what is a deal breaker and what isn't x

ThirdThoughts · 24/01/2017 10:09

I don't think the OP's stance on foxes is that odd or particularly unreasonable and I'm a bit surprised how the balance of the thread has gone really.

I can see that foxes are predators and are a financial cost to the farming industry. But I think that is a cost worth paying to have wildlife and not live in a sterile rural environment. We've already eradicated wolves, bears, beavers, almost red squirrels (these were treated as vermin and paid for the culling of before greys), otters, various raptors etc and now we're moving on to foxes and badgers too. There will be nothing left if we act as though wildlife has no intrinsic value when we decide that businesses can 'control'/destroy any natural inconvenience to making money.

E.g. last weeks country file, it is not the fault of otters that a fishery has based its economic viability on a 60lb fish that could one day be predated or die of old age or disease. Its ridiculous to suggest otters should be killed just in case one gets into the pond.

Businesses fail all the time for loads of different reasons, I don't think we should destroy biodiversity to try and keep them going. It is silly to focus on badgers, foxes and otters when the real reason that the finances are so precarious is the low prices paid by supermarkets.

As for hypocrisy, you can't really say someone is silly and naive for caring about wildlife as if liking an animal is ridiculous when in the same breath you make the point that farmers and back yard chicken keepers care for their livestock. Of course they do, and we can value and care for wildlife too.

We expect people in foreign countries to learn to live with much more dangerous, destructive neighbours like leopards, tigers and elephants because we see that if they don't, those animals will disappear. And yet, our own farmers seem incapable of tolerating a fox, badger, otter, our gamekeepers can't share shooting estates with raptors, townies can't tolerate gulls or starling flocks. Its pathetic.

If we don't protect it and learn to live with it, we will lose it. I care about that. It doesn't mean I can't sympathise with a farmer who finds their chickens destroyed by an opportunistic fox, of course it isn't pleasant and represents a loss of animals they have put care into breeding and caring for as well as the financial loss.

But people who then ascribe malice to the fox are as guilty of anthropomorphism as those who just see the cute and cuddle side. They are animals, caching in on a plentiful food resource whilst the going is good. It is a risk of our system that concentrates resources in this way.

ThirdThoughts · 24/01/2017 10:29

Should have said that I don't think it sounds like you and your boyfriend have irreconcilable differences, you just disagree about something. Something which isn't a fundamental part of your lives anyway (it isn't as if you are a vegan and he is critiquing veganism) he holds the view that foxes are a pest because they are to his industry, you value them as wildlife. If you have children you can have to views on things, it OK. I'd maybe prefer he used 'pest' rather han 'vermin' in front of small children as it is a very strong word buy its OK to differ.

Scrowy · 24/01/2017 11:44

ThirdThoughts I promise that the countryside is over run with foxes and badgers. The otter population is also exploding. Because of this other wildlife is at risk.

The fact is that these predators no longer have any natural predators of their own. Appropriate management of them by humans actually leads to more wildlife rather than less.

Otters for example are a particular risk to our native crayfish populations which are also hugely at risk. Locally to me its a very careful balancing act between the management of encouraging a small otter population versus protecting the nearly extinct crayfish.

Otters, badgers and foxes all pose a risk to ground nesting birds. Badgers are a risk to hedgehogs. It is not a coincidence that lack of control over particular predators has led to decreases in other specific populations.

People who have for generations managed the countryside environment understand this and that countryside management policy shouldn't be based on The animals of Farthing Wood!