Like buses. HELP

[1DAD2KIDS]

I have got my self in a huge relationship pickle and don't no what to do.

BACKGROUND:

I am a single parent. My marriage ended over a year ago with my wife walking out on me and the kids for another man. I have spent a long time revaluating life, the nature of relationships and exploring the world again. Anyway I have done a lot of figuring out and soul searching (as some as you may know). And had some wild adventure too. I have come to a stage that although I wish to maintain my independence I am looking for a more meaningful relationship. Something a bit more than causal encounters and FWB I have made.

SITUATION

So before Christmas I got it on with a girl from work at the Christmas party. We said we would go out on a date. She is sexy, fun and great to talk to. I was excited. Someone in the same situation looking for the same thing. Down side is she doesn't live in the same city but not too far away. Anyway I text her after new years and no reply so obviously I had been blown out the water.

Anyway I been on a little coffee date this morning with someone I got chatting to on OLD just before Christmas. Very much in the same situation as me and likewise looking for a chilled relationship. She is stunning, very beautiful and cleaver and intelligent. We share a lot of the same values. The date was hardly fireworks, great conversation but didn't feel much spark. So I wasn’t sure at first. But then at the end I got a real genuine feel that she would like to meet again. Defiantly more of a slow burner but there is interest on both sides. But I have ended up having great relationships with slow burners before. She comes from a fairly traditional Indian family so I not sure if cultural factors may have a part in courtship and to lack of instant flirting. Also I do wonder about sexual compatibility; I am very open minded and adventurous but obviously there would be no way of knowing with her till further down the line. And sexual compatibility is a very important factor in a relationship to me; its a huge part of bonding on a very emotional level.

Then there is a girl I was sleeping with from about 6 months ago from another city. We met on FAB; she has a very sexy aura and we are more sexually compatible than even my ex wife. We just connected and work together perfectly, it is amazing. She is a single parent and we were simply looking for the same at the time. But we connected. She is funny, intelligent and an engineer. It was so cool to meet a fellow electronic and electrical engineering geek. Sounds strange but it is such a turn on to be able to talk to someone who understands engineering. When we first got chatting she understood a geek data connection joke. We work in the same industry (although I in a different capacity). Anyway her job is hard and is a single parent. It all got on top of her as she had to work 100s of miles away during the week. Anyway her job has changed and she has more free time. We got chatting the other day and agreed to see each other again and go on a proper date. Both of us had been thinking about each other over the last few months. Also here the advantage is because we started as fuck buddies (so the speak, hate the term but it was mainly about the sex back then) I know we are sexually compatible. More than anyone I have been with. I don't know why but there was an instant trust between us that is so important. So I don't have to risk weeks of investment to maybe find out we are not compatible.

Anyway I am sure the Gods are playing with me at the moment because on the walk home from my date I got a text from the girl from work. She text me to say sorry she had not text for weeks but she had a serious chest infection (figures why I had not seen her at work). So she had not blown me out after all. Seriously you can write this shit.

So now I have the potential of three beautiful and intelligent women. Each of them different which makes it harder to chose. I like them all in there own way. In an ideal world I could just blend them all together to make the perfect woman for me. But I cant and I have to choose.

WHAT TO DO?

So please don't instantly judge and call me a player or a man-whore, I am not. I agreed to go for a date with the one today only after I thought I had been blown out but the one from work and not realising my engineer friend was open to making it something more. Because of everything going on in our lives it has taken months to get this coffee date today. Then last week engineer comes on the scene and then on the way home the girl from work comes on the scene. Its not a joke and its not funny, seriously like buses and I am stuck.

But it also is the end of my causal phase. A little sad to say good bye to my couple of FWB and playmates. But it’s time for something more emotionally fulfilling. It’s been fun but I am looking for something more.

Do I pick one now with no certainty it will work out and not knowing what it would be like with the others? Or is it ok to go on a date with all of them to make a more informed choice? Has anyone ever dated more than one person in the early stages to help them chose? I don't want to mess anyone around but I do want to make the right choice. I honestly never thought I would be in a position where I would ever have to choose. How do you go about choosing when you like them all?

[CaraAspen]

...you HAVE a chest infection...

[StartledByHisFurryShorts]

Well, tbf, noego, I think No Spark Cafe Lady has made it clear she wants an exclusive relationship. Would be tricky to assume that Co-Worker wanted something other than a conventional monogamous relationship.

Actually, I don't know why I'm replying to you. I'm all for non-exclusive relationships and know a few people who are polyamorous. It's really not for everyone. And I suspect if that's what Op wanted, he wouldn't be having this dilemma.

[noego]

Isn't it about what OP wants?

Girl in coffee shop is looking for chilled relationship.
Girl from FAB. Looking for the same thing as he is,
Girl with engineering background was a FB.

Or did I misinterpret something?

[MW712]

Go with spark and attraction if all nice people. That's the thing that's keeps things ticking over for me even during tough times.

[1DAD2KIDS]

ArgyMargy its a me-centric. That’s because this is about me finding the right person. I have spent my life serving and putting other people first so forgive me if I actually want to concentrate on me and put my needs first for once.

So I have been doing some thinking; Work girl is off the cards so that simplifies things. She is blowing hot and cold. I like her, she is fun, I have a bit in common with her and there is probably more to her but I don’t think she is on an intellectual par with the other (hope that don’t sound out of order).

I am really starting to come round to no spark. She does have a wonderful mind and imagination that I am discovering the more we chat. To a certain extent I think I semi subconsciously savataged our coffee date. I was not my most charismatic or enthusiastic that day. But we had a great conversation and she is wonderful and witty to talk too. She is still interested in me and trying to arrange a more fun next date. Also the nature of her talk is getting a bit suggestive. I am just holding my horses with a date while I figure stuff out.

Engineer is still very much the front runner. I think there is a reason why I never really got her out my head. We just totally connected in the bedroom and made a great team. I do think to a certain extent that indicates how well we connect outside the bedroom. We of course don’t get much free time. Its rare she can get someone to watch her child over night. She can till the beginning of next month. So I asked if she could get out for a few hours for a drink and she said she. The she asked if we should consider this a date. I said yes I would like to take her out and she was happy with that. We have taken it from the bedroom into something more. So we need a proper date and see how it goes but I have a very good feeling.

Now deeper down the rabbit hole we go courtesy of Noego. You have thrown a potential spanner in the works. The gods must be playing with me. You have raised a line of thinking that I had been pondering. Some may know I had raised and taken part in some threads on here exploring the very nature of relationships and playing with ideas of doing things differently. Life is never black and white or one size fits all.

If I play with these ideas there is another woman in this story. As you know I mentioned I have a couple of lady play mates. Well of course they don’t fit into this new model. But there is another special person to me involved not mentioned before. We met online and she lives 100s of miles away. We were both at a very low point at the time and supported each other. We became very close and we both know so much about each other. We just gel. We have spent a couple of weekends together. Obviously the distance is a thing and we have both seen and dated other people. We are open about it and have no problem about it. But we do have a strong bond. We don’t put a label on it or define it as anything. Whatever it is its unconventional. We both know at one point one of us will find someone and it will have to come to an end. Obviously I have come to the realisation that this may well be soon. It is sad but something I will need to do to move on. There was no need to mention her before because obviously we would have to end it. But it does raise the question of would I have to do this in another relationship model?

I am by nature not jealous or possessive. I am an individual and so are they. As I said before I am looking for a different relationship model. One where we live our day to day lives separately to pursue raising our families and perusing our own activities. I now value my independence so much. But I do seek something deep and meaningful. Someone I can be totally free with. It has become obvious that I am capable of loving more than one person at the same time, maybe to different extents, maybe there is a spectrum? I think maybe ‘the one’ thing is a myth? So I do wonder if there is a model were we are both free to connect with other people? Were love is not an exclusive thing? I dont know this is getting a bit far out there now. Society is not geared up for this kind of set up. For me it would be something I would be open to exploring if the other person was. The main thing is setting ground rules and boundaries that all are happy with. My outlook on life has changed so much over the last year I have explored so much and experienced so much. I have made so many new friends and tried new things. They have all both enriched my life and opened new doors to me. I know how ever things pan out I don’t think it will be conventional. So I guess I am looking for someone who is likewise not conventional, Engineer fits this bill.

Noego your right conversation does need to be open and honest. I think oddly its this honesty why me and no spark are still talking. She asked me how it went and I told her honestly my feeling. It was not what she was expecting I think and gave her another insight into me. What I hate about the world is that we are too afraid to be honest. To scared to tell it warts and all and lots of us likewise don’t have the shoulders broad enouth to handle that truth (reminds me of the film A few good men). The world would be a lot less full of bull shit if the world was more truth friendly. I wonder if the conventional relationships are natural? Or does it hold us back from being who we truly are and makes for a hostile environment to tell the truth of our inner feelings. I have had the fortune to meet people and experience places where people are free, are not judge and are equal. That environment feels like home. Is it possible to have a relationship that is completely honest and open?

Also one of the things I hated about my ex wife is that she was very anti me spending time with my oldest female friends. I have two female old school friends (totally platonic) who I have been close to for years (ironically both on them don’t like each other). She hated me being around them. Maybe she was worried they would see though her. Or as one person told me we rarely trust others if we cant trust our self. I could never go back to someone who is jealous, possessive or despises my friendships.

I really need to date engineer and see where it goes. If I am completely honest she is the one who is stuck in my head. But don’t worry I am not planning happy ever after and jumping the gun. I know things may not be quite right or just pan out differently.

As to maybe spark girl that is still difficult one. I do fancy her too, more now. But of course remember she is just after a causal thing till the summer when she moves away. A fun relationship with a shelf life. But she keeps emphasising the term with loyalty that of course to me suggests exclusivity.

Sorry everyone, blame noego for opening a new can of worms. This would have been a lot shorter if noego hadn’t empowered me to investigate again ideas that I had put aside as not being possible to me. And thanks to StartledByHisFurryShorts for standing up and showing there is more than one out there. I always thought what neoego is suggesting to be mythical like a unicorn. Although I do know its out there because I met a ploy on OLD who I really liked and was completely happy with the idea. But she lived too far away. I am no longer convinced per se with monogamy. I have made some good friends (inc couples) who are not and enjoy a great freedom and are happy. As to the polyamorous life style it is attractive. I love that all the people I have met over the last year all have added something different. It also fascinates me that they have all connected with me to different levels of friendship and connection. Strikes me that friendship and love may actually be a spectrum rather than a set of categories? To be able to let your love flow freely rather than popping it into one single jar is a nice idea. But I also see it a problematic. Not in its self, more because of the society and norms we live in.
Also it’s worth noting I haven’t got the free time to be seeing multiple people or dating a lot. Maybe normally 2-4 times a month. Engineer girl is the same due to her work and child care. But I does make you really value that time.

Wow, sorry my brain is doing the marathon tonight. Lets identify the core of what I am looking for; deep connection, friendship, freedom and someone I can truly share my soul with. To what that sort of relationship ends up looking like I don’t know? Monogamous, Non-monogamous, may be Polyamorous (not necessarily the same as non-monogamous in my book) I don’t know. For me monogamy is not a rule per se, neither do I rule it out. Its about discovering something that makes everyone happy and allows them to truly them self. The world as I see it now is full of diversity and opportunity, I really can’t see how it will pan out. I guest that’s part of the adventure? I would be cool to be able to share that adventure. Funny two years ago I was a happily married man and would have been till the day I died. In some ways I think my ex wife’s actions have liberated me.

Of course time will tell. Whatever I do it may simply not work out. My plan is just to roll with it and not look too far into the future.

Thanks if you have read all this. My brain is buzzing at the moment.

[noego]

I can only apologise 1D2Ks for opening that can of worms. It must be said that un-conventionality is growing but it is not by any means mainstream. Having these conversations about open relationships, polyamory and non monogamy is truthful and honest, and can lead to no relationship at all. They have to be like minded and to discover if they are or not can only be done through conversation. A conversation that sounds them out in an indirect way, which is not full throttle and straight to the point is to be thought about. Diplomacy is very much key. And dancing around the subject will either confirm or not their mind set. It is usually stated as "not for me I am a one woman man." So you pretty much know where you stand from there.
One of my lady friends is LDR so we have phone sex and meet up whenever possible. The meetings are great. Good conversation and good sex. If I was to pick any for a 1-2-1 relationship it would be this one. She is actually monogamous but respects my lifestyle and one day she will call to say she has found the one. I would understand. It would be much better for her to have someone local who she could spontaneously meet for coffee, movies, meals etc. So she is actively dating, but up until now no-one has floated her boat. Meanwhile we enjoy what we have without complications. She is happy and so am I with this relationship. So why rock the boat. We will cross that bridge when we come to it.
As for the rest they are predominantly platonic, with intimacy thrown in when the mood takes us. So a night in with wine and video could or could not end up being physical although sleep overs still occur. Or even a phone call that says I need cuddles tonight do you want to come over. To the booty call when they have been on a ladies night out and are passing by and feeling horny.
It is very much horses for courses. What you want is what you want and what you and they will be happy with. It is mature and adult. Open and honest. A lot of married friends of both sexes are envious. A lot are not envious. The ones that are not envious are really quite outspoken about it. That is understandable, they are in conventional relationships.
So my underlying point is this. If you try and convince someone who is traditional to change their ways it basically won't happen. They in truth cannot handle it. The right person is the one who is thinking along the same lines and see's conventional relationships as restrictive and suppressing. They need their space, freedom and independence and are comfortable with it.
Tread carefully or you could end up with none of the lovely people you describe.

[1DAD2KIDS]

The key is being in something that makes everyone happy. It's intrest me that you use the term single noego. I guess for me I want to be somewhere where I don't class my self a single. Independent yes but for me (I know it's only a label) I don't want to stay classed as single. What ever type of relationship monogamous or not I guess I still want to be classed as something more important in someone's life and them likewise in mine if that makes sense? I guess when you think about that can only really centre around one special person. As to how you conduct a relationship and the freedoms you agree on is joint decision. This is all so not black and white. But that's all theory. I am open to some of the more far out relationship ideas but yet to be convinced.

I think date, dont look too far ahead, don't over think things, go with the flow and let things run naturally in what ever direction it takes you. Does that sound a plan?

[StartledByHisFurryShorts]

Good luck 1DAD. I'm still not sure how I feel about non-exclusive relationships. I meet people casually. I have a few people I consider FWBs. I don't want to meet a life partner, get married and live happily ever after.

But last year I dated a guy for a while. It finished after 7 months. It reached a natural end. But looking back, I was frequently pretty angry. I didn't like him having sex with other people. Because I liked him. I was jealous. I was fine with me dating other people, obviously.

So, I'm in a weird position. I'll apparently need to dump any of my current FWBs if I start having feelings for them.

Obviously, it's different for everybody. I know people who do the full-on polyamorous lifestyle. That seems like hard work. I'm non-exclusive because I want less relationship not more.

So, good luck, Op. There's no one answer. Not sure if my rambly account of my experience is of any help.

Just be honest. And nice.

[noego]

There is never a plan. Did you plan to marry the one you married. Did you plan your break up. Did you plan to be where you are today.
No plan is a good plan. What will be will be. But I do agree with your last sentence Don't look to far ahead, don't over think things, go with the flow. If that Is classed as a plan the yes it sounds like a plan :o)
As for labelling myself single. It is only a label. It's to much of a mouthful to say anything else really. How about bachelor that was conned :o)

[CaraAspen]

I don't get how a person can remain emotionally detached in all of those polywotsit setups. What if you fall in love? That is what most people want - just one special person.

[CaraAspen]

Honesty is not always good.

[StartledByHisFurryShorts]

What if you fall in love?

Well, seemingly, some polywotsitists manage to have non-exclusive loving relationships.

Personally, I don't think I'm wired for monogamy.

[CaraAspen]

Polywotsitism sounds too much like hard work.

[noego]

Polyamory n : is the non-possessive, honest, responsible and ethical
philosophy and practice of loving multiple people simultaneously. Polyamory
emphasizes consciously choosing how many partners one wishes to be involved
with rather than accepting social norms which dictate loving only one person
at a time. Polyamory is from the root words Poly (meaning “many”) and Amour
(meaning “love”); hence “many loves” or Polyamory.

Polyamorous Definition? The first thing to understand is that anyone who is Polyamorous is not just interested in having sex with lots of different people. This is generally a common mis-conception and generally misunderstood by the public.

To be polyamorous simply means that you are not monogamous in your relationships. However, poly people and their lovers will generally have many relationships and believe you can love and have meaningful relationships with more than just one person. Many believe that monogomy is not natural for them and could lead people to be unhappy and even cheat in the long term. That simply is how the polyamorous definition is properly explained. Polyamoruous people practice Polyamory (see dictionary meaning above) and are also known as Poly people.

[CaraAspen]

Riiiiight.

[Cricrichan]

I don't think any of them are right. It's when you can't get someone out of your head, are counting down the minutes until you see them, butterflies and don't consider anyone else that you know they're the one. I've never had to wonder or question my feelings for someone at the beginning as every sense shouted it to me!

[CaraAspen]

Exactly.

[TGItsNotChristmasAnymore]

I don't have a problem with multiple partners in whatever sense, hey it would be a boring existence if we were all the same, I've dated more than one person a time, I just personally wouldn't want to have sex with others if I was in a relationship.
I was single for quite a time, my choice. Meeting people and occasionally having no strings sex worked for me for a number of years but then I met someone. I didn't ever plan on living with someone again but now I do and the waking up to and going to bed with the same person every night (a thought which used to feel me with dread) has now become something I cherish.
I agree that sex, apart from being fun and feeling bloody good, is also, when done right with someone you care about, something can take you to a whole new level.. It does change things, how you feel about someone. In a relationship it's the only part of your life, body that you don't share with someone else and tbh I would struggle if my partner was also sharing that with other people, Im aware others don't agree with this I'm just trying to explain my perspective on non monogamous relationships.
I'm not a jealous or possessive person my partner has close female friends and shares a close relationship with his ex wife,I still meet my ex husband for coffee etc. We have no plans to marry or have more children, yes we do live together so obviously have merged our lives, children, families etc. I would be lying if I said this hadn't been tricky but in the same vain I'd also be lying if I said it wasn't worth it. Taking this into account we still have independent lives, we have separate finances, friends, spend time apart with our respective families and have out own interests etc.
I think a ltr should be based on trust and respect, irrespective of the relationship model you follow I personally just wouldn't want my partner sharing such intimate moments with someone else, that's our special times that have and continue to enrich our union.

[annielouise]

I think you're sounding a self-absorbed player and a bit of an arse. If any of those women read this I think they'd run a mile and I wouldn't blame them. "Spent my life serving and putting other people first..." What a wanker you sound! Skanky!

[CaraAspen]

"annielouise

I think you're sounding a self-absorbed player and a bit of an arse. If any of those women read this I think they'd run a mile and I wouldn't blame them. "Spent my life serving and putting other people first..." What a wanker you sound! Skanky!"

Well, you haven't held back, OP! However, I am inclined to agree. I would be utterly revolted to be in any sort of contact with someone who behaved in this way. Bleurgh.
Dress it up in any way you like, those of you who lead such lives, you are very unlikely to convince the majority who will regard the way you live as frankly skanky.

[annielouise]

Bleurgh indeed! I'm sure all three (or is it 6 with the fuck buddies) will all be completely cool and perhaps even delighted to know they're in this web of squalor with you.

[1DAD2KIDS]

Annielouise "Spent my life serving and putting other people first..." What a wanker you sound!
Well I am sorry if I sound like a wanker but I stand by my words. You do not know me? When have I really put myself first? When my dad died I was a teen; me and my brother worked hard to support mum and the household. Most of my adult life from school I have served the defence of this country and its interests or at least what the politicians thought was its interests. Nearly 2 years of my life in total in Afghanistan and various other stints in not so nice places in addition to this. I have missed out on holidays, events, birthdays, Christmases, special moments and 3/4 of the first two years of my daughters life. Missed moments like my (ex) wife’s scans, my daughters first word, first time she stood up etc. Time and moments I will never get back. There were times when I would get a call in the night and have to leave while my daughter slept, not knowing how many weeks I would be gone. Every time I would leave the house in uniform my dd would cry her eyes out scared that I was leaving her again, I would break my heart. Being away upto 6 months at a time must have felt a life time to her. I was doing something that I believed in and putting a roof over my wife (at the time) and Childs head and bread on the table. Everything I did revolved round doing things for my ex wife. If we went away I would book the things she wanted to do/see rather than the stuff I enjoyed. I just enjoyed doing things for her. Now I am working my fucking nuts off to care for, raise and provide for my 1 YO ds and 5 YO dd alone. So I am sorry if this makes me a ‘wanker’ but proud of myself and stand by my words.

I started this to get some help and perspective on the situation. So yes this thread is a bit like the DAD show but that’s because it’s about me sorting myself out. Would you like me to start talking about you, or world events , or benefits of green tea instead?

I am sorry if daring to explore an alternative lifestyles and/or having few consenting sexual partners at the same time makes me a ‘skank’and a ‘player’. If I was a player this thread would not exist. I would simply be having my wicked way with them and telling them all I loved them and they are the only ones. Obvious I have upset you Victorian sentiments. But I will tell you this before you villainize me, I have never cheated. And that is far more than I can say about the 100s of men who are subjects of many of the relationship posts on here. If it wasn’t for my ex wife abandoning us all for another man I would still be a happy loyal husband enjoying being with the woman I loved. But the world is different now, what I used to know I don’t recognise any more. The more I explore ideas of relationships and ask honest questions about relationships and myself the more complexity I see. Surely no one deep down finds that they are not capable of loving and/or lusting after another? We don’t always just find the one and live happily ever after. What matters is how we handle our self’s and deal with these human interactions and feeling in a way that is suits all involved. Sure for most its monogamy and it may well be for me too. But surely I have a service to myself to explore these ideas, to find what truly works for me. The world is not black and white, one size fits all. Lets face it the MN relationship board is full of people suffering in conventional relationships. It’s clearly not working for everyone. Why is it wrong to explore other relationship models?

I find it vile how you judge people you don’t know and call them ‘skanky’. I have met some of the nicest, most warm, accepting and tolerant people who live an alternative lifestyle. They truly lovely people from all walks of life. Why don’t you tell the mum of missing Airman Corrie McKeague and his pregnant girlfriend they are both‘skanks’, why don’t you? These people are not ‘skanks’they are good decent human beings who live life differently.

As to the women I am talking about no doubt they would be upset if they read this. No one likes to be thought of as in a (for want of a better phase) competition for someone affection. As others have pointed out, I maybe a competitor in one too, who knows. But that is the nature of dating. But yet you call me a player? Would you go on the MN This is dating thread and start attacking some of the people on there as players and showing you disgusts when they are comparing different ‘irons’ they have on the go, would you? And if you would, are you?

As I was talking about before we are still very scared of honesty and transparency. Probably partly because it also strips the magic somewhat and partly because we are actually feeling or doing things we think as wrong quite often. That’s why we talk on MN to explore ideas and thoughts in a safe place anomalously away from the people close to us. CaraAspen points out ‘Honesty is not always good’. Maybe but surely so much of the pain expressed on here in the relationships area is the results of lies. So which is worse truth or lies?

Like CaraAspen said you haven’t held back. I can see from the language used this is more than just simple criticism or opinion. This is name calling and vile personalised aggressive digs. IMO small minded, bigoted and hateful to people/groups you don’t know. For that I feel sorry for you.

CaraAspen its funny you start off with stating that some of the ideas expressed are not for you. That’s fine, most will agree with you. I have no problem what you’d said. We all have different ideas and should be free to express them. I am here for perspective and I was very much valuing your impute. But then annielouise comes out with her hateful abusive rant and you jump right on the hateful band wagon. A closet hater who hides till a braver hater have come out. At least annielouise doesn’t hide the nature of her hate.

[Googlebabe]

I think you need to line up a couple more so that you can make a REALLY informed decision.

[1DAD2KIDS]

Googlebabe I know it's mad. I wouldnt have the time to date more. It'll be over a week till i can go out on a date. But you know what the dating game is like. Often people just flake out. And then sods law three come on the scene at once but I think I am on top of it. But I think I have made a decision.

[annielouise]

1DAD you worked for the army so that was your paid job. If you didn't like being away and putting your country first then you shouldn't have enlisted. Many recruits are so badly educated they can't do anything else - 40% have a reading age of 11, a similar proportion can't do maths beyond primary age.

To be honest you're so up yourself I only skimmed over the rest. You love pontificating by the sound of it and the length of your posts. Go pontificate down a rabbit hole or whatever you mentioned in a previous post. Self-absorbed doesn't cover it. And yes you still sound skanky and an arse.

You're acting like a little boy in a sweetie shop holding his pee pee in case he wets himself with all these women coming out the woodwork for you.

Self-indulgent trash. Cant' believe you're expecting the women on here to sit and analyse it for you. Good luck to the women you come across. I don't think I'm the only one thinking this.