Breakdown over third child

[Garion]

Have namechanged for this but been around MN for a while.

DP and I have been together for 20 years, two children together, 18 and 20. Surgically sterilised after second due to medical issues. We started talking three years ago about a third and, until now, we have been on the same page of both wanting another child.

Time is ticking, we are both in our mid-30s. Everything blew up last night, huge row and it seems we don't both want the same thing, and there's a negative financial connotation likely to destroy the loan we were planning to take out early next year for sterilisation reversal on one of our credit files.

We could save the money over the next year or so, but still doesn't resolve the dynamic.

Since the row we've not said a word to each other since. Neither child was home, or yet been home. Christmas parties etc. So they are blissfully unaware.

We have been so happy all these years, been through very tough times, with hardly a cross word ever said. So I'm shell shocked. How do we reconcile this? CAN we reconcile this. Frightened :(

Okay, so you've resolved to wait for the results of genetic testing - that's very sensible. I still think you're utterly crazy for wanting to start all over again with a baby in your mid-30s when you're other two DC are almost grown. Most people in your position would be looking forward to finally having some freedom to do the things that adults enjoy doing - socialising with other adults, pursuing hobbies, going on holiday, spending some quality time together without constantly being distracted by the needs of small DC. I realise you did the whole baby thing in your teens, which seems a long time ago, and I cannot relate to that experience as my kids were born in my 30s, but I agree with the poster early on who pointed out that your identity is too tied up in parenting. All DC grow up and leave eventually and you're in the prime of your lives now (genetic conditions notwithstanding), so instead of pursuing this expensive and possibly futile attempt to have another DC, how about expanding your horizons a bit and doing something else with your energy and time?

Two genetic conditions. The first is the one that "skips" - does not affect ability to reproduce.

Second isn't prevalent amongst the larger family structure including siblings, and their children. It's a bad roll of the dice. This does affect reproduction.

Yes, we are progressing nothing - except saving - until all results are known.

And Elspeth, it's a shit condition, it had major impact on DWs life, and risks aren't minimal. We see a consultant in the New Year regarding ongoing management and also intend to have a conversation regarding likely impact if we did proceed.

Then I would stop all the distressing arguing and merely say "We'll see what he says in January about the risks"

Why exactly does she want another child? Is it partly due to her being disabled and at home all day and that is the only thing she can think of doing that will make her feel she has a purpose now the other kids are grown up?
Difficult if you've both been planning this future for yourselves for 3 years but repeating what you've done for the past 20 years whilst being older and possibly more disabled without looking at other possible futures seems a bit unimaginative.

Have you considered booking a nice holiday to give her something to look forward to, show her what life could be like ? I remember somebody saying to me on my 30th there's more to life than babies and there bloody is.

Without wanting to be flippant,I think the issue is that neither of you has experienced adulthood separate from parenthood (as I think you were parents by the time you were 16 (possibly earlier). Therefore you haven't realised how awesome it is.

On top of all the multiple reasons given above to forget this plan, I think you are risking your wives health for a vaguely possible healthy baby, imagine if her health declines, or worse, that is going to make your existing children ask why they weren't enough ?

Also thinking outside the box; I will tell you that my DD has said she cannot justify bringing a child into the World as it will soon become:-
Famine, Not enough drinking water, Climate change, & whole populations fleeing their country (Pakistan, Maldives etc) very likely 3rd world (Nuclear) war, terrorism, unemployment, & unbreathable air/health issues due to pollution.

At the risk of being brutal, don't do this.

I think Sophie is totally right.

I think you've had some valuable advice here op. I just wanted to add that I'm the youngest in my family and have a massive age gap between me and my eldest siblings starting from 23 years, 21 years, 20 years ....

I've never ever had a sibling bond with them because a few of them were out of the house before I was born - in fact, I very often resented having such older siblings and having to share my parents attention with grandchildren that came along very soon after me.

I have a very formal relationship with my elder siblings - there is no common ground and we are very very different in our life experiences and hence lifestyle.

On many many occasions, they have negatively affected my relationship with my parents and continue to do so.

Just thought I'd add my experiences from the perspective of a potential child. I'm not saying it will most definitely be the same, but there is a chance it could be similar.

I think that as a couple you need a new focus. There should be a relish to getting back your freedom while still young and all of the things you can now do and the full life you can lead together.

I don't think it is a simple as we'll try and if it doesn't work then at least we tried. I think once you go down the route of trying it will be incredibly difficult for your DW to come to an acceptance that there may not be another baby.

I think some kind of counselling may be helpful.

So, the reasons you gave for not fostering are not insurmountable. You do not have to own your house, previous SS involvement does not exclude you etc. You do, I think, need to be financially independent of it.
There are 'lighter' forms of fostering which could be suitable for you- sitting and befriending, respite care, etc. Volunteer drivers etc are really desperately needed.

It depends what you are looking for from it. If it is to be around children, then volunteering in various different settings is the way to go.
If it is that special connection to one child, then think about people you know who are short on family members and offer to be a surrogate aunty/grandma. There are so many lonely people...

Homestart was one group that used to set up connections like this. Maybe gingerbread could do too.

I'm sorry but if you would need a loan for the surgery would you be able to afford the child? The IVF?

I could never imagine my parents planning a child when we were raised/in uni. I'm dreading going back to the newborn stage with an 8 year old!!

If you were both on board then it may be different but it's not.

I don't think either of you are being unreasonable here, but clearly this is a much more complex discussion than the "regular" let's have another child decision.

Personally I'd disregard the "issues" of adult children given they have said their ok with it.

Equally, you are both at an age where many couples are having their first child rather than a third, so I don't think that's too much of a weighty argument.

The crux here are the medical factors.

Firstly on the health of your wife and secondly on the likelihood of the child inheriting these conditions.

As such I think my line would be, if you can't guarantee the baby's health (presumably via screening) I would not proceed.

Assuming you can screen then I think the decision regarding the impact on your wife's health should be hers to make - assuming the risks/impact would not be a long term destabilisation/degradation of her condition or even have a risk of fatality.

I say this because in the case of a worsening of her condition, the raising of a baby and care of your adult children would fall to you. I don't think therefore she would be reasonable to ask this unless you were fully on board.

Good luck

Completely agree with these two statements:

Without wanting to be flippant,I think the issue is that neither of you has experienced adulthood separate from parenthood (as I think you were parents by the time you were 16 (possibly earlier). Therefore you haven't realised how awesome it is.

I don't think it is a simple as we'll try and if it doesn't work then at least we tried. I think once you go down the route of trying it will be incredibly difficult for your DW to come to an acceptance that there may not be another baby.

I only know one couple who tried IVF, had their one shot at it, and then walked away. Everyone else, bar none, became obsessed with it. For some that meant multiple tries - not all of which ended up with a baby.

I just think that having another baby in your situation is the least imaginative thing you could do. Be bold. Think big. There really, really is a helluva lot more to life than parenthood.

Potentially Rebecca, bear in mind we were both young when DD was born. I guess our entire adult lives have had children and she feels empty. She's extremely angry the sterilisation was done with her so young - I believe guidelines now state a minimum age (25?). There's no conceivable reason we couldn't have used a coil for example until we/she were older and have an input.

A holiday is on the horizon for 2018 regardless.

Sophie - I don't think that's flippant, I think there's truth in what you say for both of us.

Pklme - have requested some fostering information packs. DW is onboard with considering it as an option too.

Hi Kate - the loan was to give us a head start, rather than having to save the cash first.

Eatshit - we are both agreed if the end result of the genetics being carried out - across all four of us - indicate potential for serious health issues we wouldn't risk it. It would be unfair.

Additionally, I was DWs full-time carer for DDs pregnancy. There were potential life-threatening issues. I raised DD for the first 12 months and cared for DSS and DW.

BUT there would be no life-threatening issues this time. Problems yes, maybe the rare serious issue, but nothing that would affect her health long-term. I'd need to full-time care again, and likely raise the new child solely initially whilst DW recovers.

The genetic tests and consultant chats will swing this I feel. If my concerns can be allayed, and the tests are clear, I could get back on board the idea. Any very serious risks to DW or a baby would be a deal breaker.

Christ, the drip feeding....

You expect to be the sole carer for your wife and a baby for potentially the first 12 months due to complications of pregnancy??!

What the hell is her condition?? And does not being able to actually take care of a baby not give her pause?

"The genetic tests and consultant chats will swing this I feel. If my concerns can be allayed, and the tests are clear, I could get back on board the idea. Any very serious risks to DW or a baby would be a deal breaker."
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I don't think that's an unreasonable position to take.

The fact you are arguing would suggest that your DW does not agree?

I also a s per a pp am somewhat concerned that the pregnancy would impact her to the point of not being able to look after the baby for 12 months.

Fundamentally there feels like a hell of a lot of hurdles here. The testing, reversal of the sterilisation and likelihood of a prolonged recovery (even if you "make it" to pregnancy).

Looking logically there are many very good reasons not to proceed here and a significant risk you would not be successful even if you move forward to try and conceive.

However, this a very much a head vs heart decision I don't know of any real logical reason we want children but one with some high stakes.

Honestly, I think I'd find it very hard to agree to this.

If it's something like post partum psychosis then no, I absolutely wouldn't risk it. There might be better understanding of mental health issues, but there is a lot less funding.

Straw clutching personified.

Make your peace with your family as it is.

A 12 month recovery post partum last time may be a lot longer this time as DW is much older.